Coronavirus Or The Virus From China

[Frank Bullitt]

3 hours ago, The Raven said:

As i stated above, ultimately i think you should have the right to refuse, as i said you can refuse life saving cancer treatment if you wish.  

Surprised that one team of scientists fudged results no. Surprised that a whole world of independent ones  did? Yeah. Unless you are talking about the great reset where everyone's in on it? 

Again question what im being told?  If it was just the UK ? Sure, maybe if it was just a few countries........But the whole world? Again it would have to be an agenda where everyone's in on it or an NWO style hidden government is pulling the strings?

I have to ask the question whats the end game? Whats the final point in all this if its not for the good of normal people? 

 

 

Apologies I didn't see the edits. You’re being hyperbolic again, comparing cancer to influenza is apples to oranges. So are the treatments.

Find me an “independent” scientist with no political bias and I’ll find you a backer, silent partner, friend with something to gain or a another. The days of truly virtuous people have gone. It’s all about the money!

If you are approached with a job and you are employed to find x but finding x is also tied in with your performance bonus, shares in the company you are working for, holidays and pay rise, what are you going to do. It is not about fudging results, it’s about following a desired/specific methodology/line of questioning to achieve the answer you want. Again, no one is saying Covid doesn’t exist but does it warrant this level of loss?

In the same way politicians employ specific people to make up their panels or committee's.

I don’t prescribe to any philosophy so have no idea about any end game.

What do you class as normal people? Can any good ever come from the loss of free speech, loss of free choice and loss of free thought.

[Big Supes]

9 hours ago, Style said:

Source?

if you’re going to make these claims then I’d love to see the evidence behind it. 

Dr Sanjay Gupta (CNN's face of medicine) has openly said numerous times that no one knows the long term health implications from these vaccines. You can listen to him say it on the Joe Rogan podcast. 

As for these mRNA treatments not being vaccines... the fact that the WHO had to redefine what a vaccine is in order for us to call them vaccines should be the clue.

 

[The Raven]

10 hours ago, Frank Bullitt said:

Apologies I didn't see the edits. You’re being hyperbolic again, comparing cancer to influenza is apples to oranges. So are the treatments.

Find me an “independent” scientist with no political bias and I’ll find you a backer, silent partner, friend with something to gain or a another. The days of truly virtuous people have gone. It’s all about the money!

If you are approached with a job and you are employed to find x but finding x is also tied in with your performance bonus, shares in the company you are working for, holidays and pay rise, what are you going to do. It is not about fudging results, it’s about following a desired/specific methodology/line of questioning to achieve the answer you want. Again, no one is saying Covid doesn’t exist but does it warrant this level of loss?

In the same way politicians employ specific people to make up their panels or committee's.

I don’t prescribe to any philosophy so have no idea about any end game.

What do you class as normal people? Can any good ever come from the loss of free speech, loss of free choice and loss of free thought.

I’m merely stating if you have the right to refuse treatment for possibly the worst condition possible and simply die from from it then you should have the right to refuse a vaccine you don’t want. I’m not comparing the two at all. 
 

just so I’m clear every country that have agreed to use said vaccines scientific boards have all been brought off using shares and pay rises? Who approached them? None of them refused? That again would take a huge underground movement to get to and influence that many people. Then you would have to keep them all silent  for it to work? Again maybe one or two I could believe but not every single one. Pfizer Shares are 9p per share higher than they where in 1999. If your correct then the plan isn’t working to well at all. 

Normal people was referring to the ones that have not been told/paid off or given holidays to approve vaccines ie the average person on the street. 

Free thought is still free, free speech can be very very dangerous depending on who’s talking but mostly you can still say what you want. As I said above I agree with you about free choice even when it comes to medical treatments or vaccines. Currently you have the right to refuse medical help if you wish to the point of being allowed to discharge yourself from hospital with life ending issues. I really don’t see how this should be changed to force a vaccine on people. 

If you want people to get vaccinated you have to find out why they won’t then deal with those issues. Banning them from most of daily life will probably force some but others could see their lives wrecked which isn’t fair at all. 

With that in mind what would you need to take the vaccine?

Edited December 3, 2021 by The Raven (see edit history)

[The Raven]

12 hours ago, Annabella said:

As you said above, the right to refuse, staggering now that Germany is making it mandatory policy, within the EU Governance, that you have to have a vaccine to go out into public effectively, in Germany. I'm sure somewhere that violates the HR bill that the EU is supposed to staunchly stand for. How are these people supposed to earn a living, shop to buy food to eat! And it's Germany FFS, have they not learnt anything, to stigmatise a large proportion of their citizens, what's next, if they don't have enough police to check people's papers? Do the unvaccinated have to live in a certain area? I am so angry that this is happening, our government isn't condemning it, the EU in Brussels isn't, there will be trouble ahead.

They have said they are allowed to work and go to essential shops i believe. Enforcement? thats the part that will take this in a new direction. They cant police that at all. Tags? If you refuse jail? 

As you can probably tell ive had all my jabs and will happily debate until the cows come home but thats to far.

[Annabella]

4 hours ago, The Raven said:

They have said they are allowed to work and go to essential shops i believe. Enforcement? thats the part that will take this in a new direction. They cant police that at all. Tags? If you refuse jail? 

As you can probably tell ive had all my jabs and will happily debate until the cows come home but thats to far.

Same, have had mine, wouldn't say happily as these vaccines were rushed through, as usually it takes many years to develop under normal times. 

Enforcement, that's the problem, could you imagine going the supermarket, leaving your car, on the way in and polizei ask you to check your (effectively) documentation? I'd seriously tell them where to go, we're not in 1930-40's Germany.

[Thorin]

1 hour ago, Annabella said:

as usually it takes many years to develop under normal times.

Developing a vaccine doesn't take long when you've got multiple countries throwing money into research. It's lack of funding that means they usually take years.

Edited December 3, 2021 by Thorin (see edit history)

[Scooter]

6 hours ago, The Raven said:

They have said they are allowed to work and go to essential shops i believe. Enforcement? thats the part that will take this in a new direction. They cant police that at all. Tags? If you refuse jail? 

As you can probably tell ive had all my jabs and will happily debate until the cows come home but thats to far.

My thoughts exactly, and it's happening for employees of certain companies in other countries already (I'd like to think en masse here we'd be against this enforcement but I'm not so sure?)

Initially yes sure tow the line, I am/wasn't sure of everything about these jabs and we all know things were rushed (hence the Astrazenica clotting issue being found out post not pre jab - not saying it wouldn't have been used but knowing a rare side effect via trials would help and probably saved a few lives of those affected) but also I don't think mass genocide is on the agenda.

But I honestly feel this would have to be far far worse to warrant the actions being seen/proposed, so either they know how bad it is/might still get and these draconian measures are necessary or somewhere those in power are getting carried away at least? Money perhaps, or a crusade for being the saviour/securing a place in history sort of thing?

For me the way things are going this would have to be much more severe than it appears to be to warrant the actions, almost to the point of me drifting towards the all is not what it seems side of things?

I know a number of double jabbed people who've since tested positive and so it's certainly no absolute barrier to contracting it, so it's not like the vaccine is amazing, and that those of us who've had it can claim a huge superiority over those that haven't? They are more a risk unto themselves than us it would seem?  How can you fire/socially ostracise a sub 23 year old for not taking a vaccine in a few months time, when their chance of serious illness is miniscule and when you've spent 18 months or so sending them to school/college/university 'unprotected' as it's safe for them. 

Does any other vaccine take two jabs? was this because of the initial rush so the active ingredients were kept low? Anyway 2nd does in trials found to increase effectiveness so that's what happens. So I'm 99% sure I've had it pre vaccines being available, One jab 24th April another 1st July and now I need a booster? I mean how effective are they exactly, the 90% efficacy mantra is laughable isn't it? if they drop off so much are we just on a vaccine treadmill forever.......if we must we must, but it doesn't feel exactly effective/efficient? 

[Scooter]

Interesting website here that predates covid, the link below stating how small pox vaccines in children was compulsory and how that created a protest.

https://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/articles/vaccination-exemptions

Same site, shows how long vaccines can take to develop, the ones for covid are I believe built on certain standard/known/studied (and to a degree tested) bases which were tweaked for covid, but still fast tracked significantly, and we are all part of the trail phases........again needs must vs experimented on to a degree depending on your take?

https://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/articles/vaccine-development-testing-and-regulation

 

[Frank Bullitt]

12 hours ago, The Raven said:

I’m merely stating if you have the right to refuse treatment for possibly the worst condition possible and simply die from from it then you should have the right to refuse a vaccine you don’t want. I’m not comparing the two at all. 
 

just so I’m clear every country that have agreed to use said vaccines scientific boards have all been brought off using shares and pay rises? Who approached them? None of them refused? That again would take a huge underground movement to get to and influence that many people. Then you would have to keep them all silent  for it to work? Again maybe one or two I could believe but not every single one. Pfizer Shares are 9p per share higher than they where in 1999. If your correct then the plan isn’t working to well at all. 

Normal people was referring to the ones that have not been told/paid off or given holidays to approve vaccines ie the average person on the street. 

Free thought is still free, free speech can be very very dangerous depending on who’s talking but mostly you can still say what you want. As I said above I agree with you about free choice even when it comes to medical treatments or vaccines. Currently you have the right to refuse medical help if you wish to the point of being allowed to discharge yourself from hospital with life ending issues. I really don’t see how this should be changed to force a vaccine on people. 

If you want people to get vaccinated you have to find out why they won’t then deal with those issues. Banning them from most of daily life will probably force some but others could see their lives wrecked which isn’t fair at all. 

With that in mind what would you need to take the vaccine?

As the the two are polar opposites I don’t see the correlation.

I’m not saying anything other than none of this makes sense, none of it. It is mass hysteria about influenza. Why push/force the vaccine when it is obvious to all it doesn’t stop transmission, doesn’t work and the risks for most people outweigh any benefit.

As media is so biased where news is concerned, what makes you think different voices and opinions will be heard?

Why are the death figures being embellished? Why is loss of freedom necessary? Why vaccinate healthy people? Why segregate society? Why is no one questioning this?

Free speech either is or isn’t. Again, another subject for another time

Free thought, what about all the biased social media junk fact checking? 

What would it take for me to have this? Nothing. They reclassified vaccine so this jab could be called one. The NIH reclassified Gain Of Function. They want a ridiculous amount of time to release their paperwork showing effects of this jab. Too many unknowns.

I want to know why natural immunity is no longer an option. Why eating healthy & exercising aren’t an option.

Do you know what happens if you inject testosterone in to a healthy male body when it isn’t needed?

 

Edited December 3, 2021 by Frank Bullitt (see edit history)

[Frank Bullitt]

Austria heading towards forced vaccination.

Now Germany is voicing the same is a possibility - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/02/germany-could-make-covid-vaccination-mandatory-says-merkel

[Scooter]

This guy doesn't seem like a crack pot and a lot makes sense..........it's all good (i'm still watching) but 22 mins cuts to the main point so far

[Scooter]

I've only been looking at this since the forced aspect loss of jobs etc and the growing them or us situation, which you can see right here and at work with friends etc?

[Scooter]

 

[Scooter]

Australian minister of the northern territories is quite intense!!

"Under the mandate, most workers were required to have had at least one jab by November 12, and a second dose before Christmas.

Those who fail to adhere to the requirement are not allowed to attend their workplaces."

 

[Big Supes]

These Australian ministers are fcking loonies! 

Using the army to round up the aborigines and transport them to vaccine camps "for their own good".... Yeah, as if Australia has ever done anything good for the natives.

These commie nutjobs make my blood boil. 

[The Raven]

Funny how the narrative has changed Australia was being held up as the burning light of freedom when they where carrying on with no lockdowns. 

Now they are the utter worst of the worst. 

[Annabella]

14 hours ago, Scooter said:

 

Wonder how well it will go when I ask the nurse to aspirate when I have the booster 

[Frank Bullitt]

 

[Frank Bullitt]

Like him or hate him, it is worth a watch.

 

[The Raven]

Australia have always been something of a odd one on basic human rights 

For example they are more than happy to push back immigrants on boats, im not allowed to immigrate to Australia as my son who is disabled is labeled as a drain on the state. 

 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-22/australian-government-deporting-children-because-of-disability/100018362

I will leave that here to.

To hear them on this subject does not shock me at all. They will be more than happy to ban unvax people from going to work, then ban them from getting any state help.

 

Edited December 4, 2021 by The Raven (see edit history)

[Style]

On 12/2/2021 at 10:18 PM, Big Supes said:

As for these mRNA treatments not being vaccines... the fact that the WHO had to redefine what a vaccine is in order for us to call them vaccines should be the clue.

 

I knew that was going to be your response which means you never really looked too far into what actually changed. It was changed to better define what vaccines do as the spotlight was being shon on it by conspiracy theorists etc. Flu vaccines don't stop you from catching Influenza so the new definition has been applicable way before COVID was a thing.

 

Before the change, the definition for “vaccination” read, “the act of introducing a vaccine into the body to produce immunity to a specific disease.” Now, the word “immunity” has been switched to “protection.”

The term “vaccine” also got a makeover. The definition changed from “a product that stimulates a person’s immune system to produce immunity to a specific disease” to the current “a preparation that is used to stimulate the body’s immune response against diseases.” Again, far more accurate when you look at other examples of vaccines that isn't COVID and have been around for a long time

 

[Frank Bullitt]

America now forcing the vaccine on those working in the private sectors - https://rumble.com/vqb956-de-blasio-announces-universal-covid-vax-mandate-for-all-private-sector-work.html?mref=22lbp&mc=56yab&fbclid=IwAR3dj2oi7dLHaLkxHnFvswFRDNyrM1gVrjuoH8GJY9GN4sNxp16z8EjWhzs

[Scooter]

At least (for the time being - although frontline NHS staff are) we can watch from the sidelines at others bringing in mandates, it'll be interesting to see what reactions there are in Europe next year.

https://theconversation.com/why-the-uk-shouldnt-introduce-mandatory-covid-vaccination-173179

 

 

[Annabella]

Only politician of note I've heard chirp up about this is IDS

[Frank Bullitt]

6 hours ago, Style said:

I knew that was going to be your response which means you never really looked too far into what actually changed. It was changed to better define what vaccines do as the spotlight was being shon on it by conspiracy theorists etc. Flu vaccines don't stop you from catching Influenza so the new definition has been applicable way before COVID was a thing.

 

Before the change, the definition for “vaccination” read, “the act of introducing a vaccine into the body to produce immunity to a specific disease.” Now, the word “immunity” has been switched to “protection.”

The term “vaccine” also got a makeover. The definition changed from “a product that stimulates a person’s immune system to produce immunity to a specific disease” to the current “a preparation that is used to stimulate the body’s immune response against diseases.” Again, far more accurate when you look at other examples of vaccines that isn't COVID and have been around for a long time

 

If you’re going to play that game, I knew that was going to be your regurgitated sheeple narrative response. See, name calling gets us no where. We all have a right to air views without being mocked, ye? Point made?

Chemistry & biology made up a large part of my degree course (so I don’t expecting many will understand the implications of changes made) but do you honestly see no problem with the new wording? Do you understand the difference between the two statements? Not being a dick, I want to know that we both have a clear understanding.

Hint: The goal posts have been changed, in fact widened so much you can’t miss. Ask yourself this, why you would possibly change the goalposts at this specific time?

Maybe you can answer me this too as everyone else has neglected to so far. Do you know what happens if you inject testosterone in to a healthy male body when it isn’t needed? Not a trick question.