forum owned track supras, register and chat thread.

[Dan_Q]

Pedro- ta for that write up, good read, love the vid too! looks lots of fun.

 

Right- has anyone ran 9" wide rims with 255 tyres on the rear, and actually noticed a difference to 9.5" wide ones? i seem to be able to get hold of lots more 9" wide ones second hand, and wondered if there was any difference.

[AlexM]

Ryan used to run 9" rear wheels on the 2bartuning/autotec Supra above, I don't believe he had any issues. I've now got those wheels, planning on running 275s on them..

[Chris Wilson]

The rear suspension on the MKIV is now really old hat and not designed for use with very wide tyres and rims, the camber and toe control, especially if the car is lowered, is pretty dire. It's a result of them trying to keep a decent hatch volume in the car, the wishbone vertical spacing due to subframe vertical space constraints is too close. The car is nicer to drive as a general road / track car on modest rim widths, especially so in the wet, where tread lifting will give you a fright on an averagely set up car with very wide rims and tyres on the back end. Plus an average to quite good track driver will find the car altogether more user friendly on modest rim sizes as breakaway will be a lot more progressive. A pro driver might go a bit quicker in the dry on a wider tyre, with the car set up JUST for track usage, but he'll work hard to keep it away from the breakaway limit, as it may well be un-catchable. But narrower, taller tyres on modest rims don't look flash, or appear featured on show cars in badly written, mild porn car "magazines", so they must be $rap.....

[ManwithSupra]

The rear suspension on the MKIV is now really old hat and not designed for use with very wide tyres and rims, the camber and toe control, especially if the car is lowered, is pretty dire. It's a result of them trying to keep a decent hatch volume in the car, the wishbone vertical spacing due to subframe vertical space constraints is too close. The car is nicer to drive as a general road / track car on modest rim widths, especially so in the wet, where tread lifting will give you a fright on an averagely set up car with very wide rims and tyres on the back end. Plus an average to quite good track driver will find the car altogether more user friendly on modest rim sizes as breakaway will be a lot more progressive. A pro driver might go a bit quicker in the dry on a wider tyre, with the car set up JUST for track usage, but he'll work hard to keep it away from the breakaway limit, as it may well be un-catchable. But narrower, taller tyres on modest rims don't look flash, or appear featured on show cars in badly written, mild porn car "magazines", so they must be $rap.....

 

Chris I run 10.5 (on the back) with 285's on 888's would you say that this is too large?

[pedrosixfour]

Chris I run 10.5 (on the back) with 285's on 888's would you say that this is too large?

 

285's on a 10.5" rim is just too big IMO, especially in R888s which are prone to overheating under ideal conditions on a car like the Supra, even one as waif-like as yours! The sidewall flex of a 285 on that size rim under track conditions would only exacerbate the problem. Excess lateral movement, irrespective of tyre profile, might also be affecting the manners of the car through corners. Maintaining proper tyre pressure would be much more difficult as well.

 

It might not be something that you've actually noted as a problem but speaking from experience the difference felt after subtle changes are made to a dedicated track car can be hard to ignore and can literally transform its behaviour for a given, repeatable situation.

 

Thats just my two cents Rich, which when compared to Chris' are worth significantly less than that, but feel free to do with the above as you please.

Edited July 17, 2012 by pedrosixfour (see edit history)

[ManwithSupra]

285's on a 10.5" rim is just too big IMO, especially in R888s which are prone to overheating under ideal conditions on a car like the Supra, even one as waif-like as yours! The sidewall flex of a 285 on that size rim under track conditions would only exacerbate the problem. Excess lateral movement, irrespective of tyre profile, might also be affecting the manners of the car through corners. Maintaining proper tyre pressure would be much more difficult as well.

 

It might not be something that you've actually noted as a problem but speaking from experience the difference felt after subtle changes are made to a dedicated track car can be hard to ignore and can literally transform its behaviour for a given, repeatable situation.

 

Thats just my two cents Rich, which when compared to Chris' are worth significantly less than that, but feel free to do with the above as you please.

 

Cheers mate that’s useful information to note, it’s good to ask and chew over results etc.

 

Further on to this I have not experienced the problems as you or Chris have mentioned with the wheel and tyre setup I have as yet.

The car feels planted in the low speed and high speed corners and it’s very difficult to get the car to breakaway and when it does it’s a dream to control.

 

Although would I be experiencing something different with this setup because my engine is mid mounted and the weight is significantly lower than a normal Supra? (Normal I mean a Supra setup for track)

 

If you wish on my next track day, I can get some information off my DL1 with regards to handling (cornering forces etc.) hopefully before then I will be able to get the DL1 to log the tyre temps and steering angles as well.

[Paul Whiffin]

285's on a 10.5" rim is just too big IMO, especially in R888s which are prone to overheating under ideal conditions on a car like the Supra, even one as waif-like as yours! The sidewall flex of a 285 on that size rim under track conditions would only exacerbate the problem. Excess lateral movement, irrespective of tyre profile, might also be affecting the manners of the car through corners. Maintaining proper tyre pressure would be much more difficult as well.

 

It might not be something that you've actually noted as a problem but speaking from experience the difference felt after subtle changes are made to a dedicated track car can be hard to ignore and can literally transform its behaviour for a given, repeatable situation.

 

Thats just my two cents Rich, which when compared to Chris' are worth significantly less than that, but feel free to do with the above as you please.

 

We found the complete opposite of that, in 5 years of Time Attacking and using the R888 tyre we never had any of these issues. We ran 285/30 on a 10x18 rim, we had very consistent tyre pressures and the tyre maintained a consistent level of grip throughout a 20 minute session. I did a 45 minute hard session in my car at Cadwell Park and again they remained very consistent the whole time, we also monitored tyre pressures and temperatures, dont ask me what they were though!

Obviously suspension geometry/damping/weight/etc, can have an effect on all of this too, we spent a lot of time trying out different setups over the years and pretty much perfected the track setup over the last couple of years we were doing it.

[pedrosixfour]

We found the complete opposite of that, in 5 years of Time Attacking and using the R888 tyre we never had any of these issues. We ran 285/30 on a 10x18 rim, we had very consistent tyre pressures and the tyre maintained a consistent level of grip throughout a 20 minute session. I did a 45 minute hard session in my car at Cadwell Park and again they remained very consistent the whole time, we also monitored tyre pressures and temperatures, dont ask me what they were though!

Obviously suspension geometry/damping/weight/etc, can have an effect on all of this too, we spent a lot of time trying out different setups over the years and pretty much perfected the track setup over the last couple of years we were doing it.

 

Maybe the difference I noticed is because I'm on 17" rims and running 40 profiles as opposed to you, Steve and Richard. Even looking at Richard's pics on the previous page the tyre doesn't seem to bulge at the rim lip like my 255/40R17 tyres did on my 9" rims. Seriously, after a couple of brisk laps (for an NA) the tyres seemed to lose most of their grip and the rear just gracefully slid into turns, which was nice, not fast but nice. With 10" rims and the same tyres on the car now that behaviour is been all but eliminated.

 

But I must also factor the adjustable rear wing into that in future.

[Dan_Q]

Ryan used to run 9" rear wheels on the 2bartuning/autotec Supra above, I don't believe he had any issues. I've now got those wheels, planning on running 275s on them..

 

Mega- am not gonna worry then, cheers Alex. As long as it handles the same with a 255/40 on a 9.5" as it does with the same size tyre on a 9" wide rim, thats the main thing i'm bothered about. Could well have found my spare rears now. PS are you at barkston next month mate? if so could you bring my centrecaps?

 

The rear suspension on the MKIV is now really old hat and not designed for use with very wide tyres and rims, the camber and toe control, especially if the car is lowered, is pretty dire. It's a result of them trying to keep a decent hatch volume in the car, the wishbone vertical spacing due to subframe vertical space constraints is too close. The car is nicer to drive as a general road / track car on modest rim widths, especially so in the wet, where tread lifting will give you a fright on an averagely set up car with very wide rims and tyres on the back end. Plus an average to quite good track driver will find the car altogether more user friendly on modest rim sizes as breakaway will be a lot more progressive. A pro driver might go a bit quicker in the dry on a wider tyre, with the car set up JUST for track usage, but he'll work hard to keep it away from the breakaway limit, as it may well be un-catchable. But narrower, taller tyres on modest rims don't look flash, or appear featured on show cars in badly written, mild porn car "magazines", so they must be $rap.....

 

great stuff chris thanks for taking the time to post i'm 99% of the time a function over form type person, but I have 2 pairs of volks which i was going to sell to get another set of stock 17's so i don't have to pi55 about with different wheel nut types- but pureley because of look i fancy another 2 pairs of jap style split rims and sell my stock 17's but struggling to find 9.5" wide in the right diameter and offset. 9" wide opens up a lot more avenues for me

[AlexM]

Mega- am not gonna worry then, cheers Alex. As long as it handles the same with a 255/40 on a 9.5" as it does with the same size tyre on a 9" wide rim, thats the main thing i'm bothered about. Could well have found my spare rears now. PS are you at barkston next month mate? if so could you bring my centrecaps?

 

I hope to be, could be the only event I make this year! Centre caps are in the boot of the track car, slightly higher chance than normal that I'll remember your centre caps..

[Dan_Q]

Nice one alex! do hope you make it, would be good to have a catchup especially if its the only one you'll make this year ha ha i have to do things like that so i dont forget too cheers buddy.

 

if you don't make it over i'll give you a bell if i'm ever down your neck of the woods.

[shaft]

im booked into the trackday monday next. First one in the supra. Fingers crossed !

[ManwithSupra]

im booked into the trackday monday next. First one in the supra. Fingers crossed !

 

Nice one mate, let us know how it goes.. Get up some vids if you can

Only advice I would have is take it steady (get used to the car on track) and be as smooth as you can.

 

I am booked in at Silverstone (Full GP Circuit) on the 24th September for an all-day open pit lane, with use of the new Pits and garages (My big one of the year). Only thing is it’s with the BMW owners club

However I did the same last year in my other Supra and I found that the BMW owners were very friendly, so nothing to worry about

 

Should be interesting bringing my new weapon...:eyebrows:

Edited August 1, 2012 by ManwithSupra (see edit history)

[Dan_Q]

nice one lads- both of you get some pics up would be nice to see you having fun

 

I'm booked in for round 3 of the TSS this month- narrow track for a supra is barkston heath but i'll see how i get on

 

I've just swapped the legs over to toyota bilsteins and brake pads are now yellowstuffs. lets see if that makes much of a difference

[ManwithSupra]

nice one lads- both of you get some pics up would be nice to see you having fun

 

I'm booked in for round 3 of the TSS this month- narrow track for a supra is barkston heath but i'll see how i get on

 

I've just swapped the legs over to toyota bilsteins and brake pads are now yellowstuffs. lets see if that makes much of a difference

 

Yeah will do, the car is also Gopro'd up now too (roof mount, rear mount, bumper mount and a number of interior mounts) so will be getting some good quality vids unlike my last vid which was awful.

 

I run Yellowstuffs all round on mine and they are ok they seem to perform quite well.

I am planning to move over to either bluestuff, Performance friction racing pads or Porterfield race pads next season.

Edited August 2, 2012 by ManwithSupra (see edit history)

[Dan_Q]

good stuff, my mate uses a gopro on his kart great piece of kit looking forward to the vids.

 

thats good to hear about yellowstuffs- i struggled finding much info on the search on here, except folks generally thought they provided less feel than CW / porterfield pads. I used them on a FWD '93 celica that i used to sprint years back, and liked them, so thought i'd give them a try on my tight budget.

 

My first impression on the road is that they are much much better than the mintex road pads i had on before, far far better pedal for starters, and as they bite very well from cold, that's ideal for sprinting. I'll see how they get on in the thick of it in a couple of weeks

[ManwithSupra]

good stuff, my mate uses a gopro on his kart great piece of kit looking forward to the vids.

 

thats good to hear about yellowstuffs- i struggled finding much info on the search on here, except folks generally thought they provided less feel than CW / porterfield pads. I used them on a FWD '93 celica that i used to sprint years back, and liked them, so thought i'd give them a try on my tight budget.

 

My first impression on the road is that they are much much better than the mintex road pads i had on before, far far better pedal for starters, and as they bite very well from cold, that's ideal for sprinting. I'll see how they get on in the thick of it in a couple of weeks

 

I would like to add I am not sure what yellows are like on UK's as I don’t run a UK setup.

They however on my setup they are "adequate" at the moment.

 

Silverstone will be a good test on the yellows as there are 3 fairly long straights and 2 of those finish at some pretty tight bends (Village and brooklands) I didn’t manage to push my brakes to fade on my old supra with the same brake setup, however with this car I will probably be going a lot faster.

 

Looking forward to it, just need to finish some bits off on the car for Silverstone (Adding Electronically controlled fire extinguisher, reducing some more weight by changing parts to more carbon etc.)

Edited August 3, 2012 by ManwithSupra (see edit history)

[shaft]

no video im afraid just this pic

(click to enlarge)

 

car surprised me if im honest, drove excellently on track.

Well impressed, looking forwardx to the next day already!

 

Spec of her is Bpu'd

Tein super street coilovers lowered,

stupid 18X9.5et12 wheels with Toyo T1r's front and Federal 595 (!) rear.

Manaul

Uk Brakes with Ate super blue fluid, Red stuff all round (excellent) new grooved discs.

 

Completly street spec but anyhow.

 

The circuit itself is Mondello, Co.kildare Ireland ( tight ans slow).

 

Car loved it, i loved it, WILL RACE AGAIN

Edited August 10, 2012 by shaft (see edit history)

[ManwithSupra]

no video im afraid just this pic

(click to enlarge)

[ATTACH=CONFIG]156056[/ATTACH]

 

car surprised me if im honest, drove excellently on track.

Well impressed, looking forwardx to the next day already!

 

Spec of her is Bpu'd

Tein super street coilovers lowered,

stupid 18X9.5et12 wheels with Toyo T1r's front and Federal 595 (!) rear.

Manaul

Uk Brakes with Ate super blue fluid, Red stuff all round (excellent) new grooved discs.

 

Completly street spec but anyhow.

 

The circuit itself is Mondello, Co.kildare Ireland ( tight ans slow).

 

Car loved it, i loved it, WILL RACE AGAIN

 

Sounds like you are getting the bug...

[AlexM]

I had the Supra out today for Round 3 of the Toyota Sprint Series, first time it's been run since having a geo, plus I'd fitted the new wheels and tyres.

 

Lovely drive there and back, but a terribly frustrating day. Crazy amounts of grip available but the engine cut out every time I attacked the course, always on a corner - no sign of anything wrong at all. I suspect the Syvecs is the culprit (I had to turn the ignition fully off before I could restart the car), but I don't know why..

 

It's now tucked up back in the garage, hopefully I'll have some time spare to investigate and get another track day / sprint in before the end of the year.

[Wez]

Something causing it to go into limp mode?

[Chris Wilson]

Could it be a fuel starvation issue, and you need to re-charge the fuel system pressure by turning off and on? Are you logging fuel pressure? You probably SHOULD be on a track car....Don't the logs you have tell you anything?

[AlexM]

Something causing it to go into limp mode?

 

Looks like it.

 

Could it be a fuel starvation issue, and you need to re-charge the fuel system pressure by turning off and on? Are you logging fuel pressure? You probably SHOULD be on a track car....Don't the logs you have tell you anything?

 

I was trying to watch the fuel pressure, but it doesn't seem to be hooked up to the gauge. The logs will probably tell me (or Ryan) something, but I need Windows on my laptop to run the Syvecs software.. I guess it's a good time to put boot camp on my Mac.

[Ryan.G]

Fuel pressure trip will cause it to hit an early rpm limiter. The only cut on the Ecu which will turn off the engine on your car and stop it starting again is Oil pressure trip!

 

Where is the oil pressure sensor plumbed in? Logs will tell you all and there is a manual on how to pull logs etc on http://www.syvecs.co.uk

[ManwithSupra]

I have the same thing and it is the Oil pressure sensor set too sensitive, would be an idea just to check your oil level anyway in case it’s a little low. Actually that reminds me I need to get my ar*e in gear and give you a call Ryan to go through changing the settings on that

 

I am also thinking about getting an Accusump to prevent starvation..