Homer Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 I found some pics of Gaz's engine bay and the manifold is not clocked, so that was my theory out the window. I think the manifold can be ruled out as the cause since no one else has experienced this problem with it. I had a good look at the screamer pipe setup at Suprapod and is was straight down and out from the wastegate (like all others), so can't see a restriction there being the cause either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooquicktostop Posted June 21, 2007 Author Share Posted June 21, 2007 and back on topic, have you been to see the car yet Dean? Wow thats some thread I started I have been with a supplier all day on the Isle of White, nice to get away for the day to take my mind of my broken car I had a call or two today and I gave my honest thoughts and thats it, As Muffleman has said I have used several tuners over the years and several dealers for cars, I am among the people to be ripped of by GTcars, paid stupid money to TDI and I thought a had a great team in TF and Dan from all the feedback on here before xmas, and as Muffleman says it is trust you need and your wallet empties quickly in this game and TF were the first to offer a real sence of value with some fantastic feedback at the time. I still have respect for Greg and Sam and Greg waited until 10.30pm the other night to help me out and I can not think of many garages that do that. I will not however get involved in trader wars and a blame culture as it does not get my car fixed and running well and at the end of the day thats all we ever want right ? I will be talking again to several people tomorrow to decide what to do next but I hope this whole saga does not end up leaving a bad taste, and any work needed now I will need to dig deep as funds have almost run out and after 12K you would think we would have a sorted car, its been along day and enough said from me now, but I want to make clear I have not pointed the finger of blame at anyone yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jevansio Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Glad to see you get your side across Dan, there was some **** flying about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muffleman Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Wow thats some thread I started I have been with a supplier all day on the Isle of White, nice to get away for the day to take my mind of my broken car I had a call or two today and I gave my honest thoughts and thats it, As Muffleman has said I have used several tuners over the years and several dealers for cars, I am among the people to be ripped of by GTcars, paid stupid money to TDI and I thought a had a great team in TF and Dan from all the feedback on here before xmas, and as Muffleman says it is trust you need and your wallet empties quickly in this game and TF were the first to offer a real sence of value with some fantastic feedback at the time. I still have respect for Greg and Sam and Greg waited until 10.30pm the other night to help me out and I can not think of many garages that do that. I will not however get involved in trader wars and a blame culture as it does not get my car fixed and running well and at the end of the day thats all we ever want right ? I will be talking again to several people tomorrow to decide what to do next but I hope this whole saga does not end up leaving a bad taste, and any work needed now I will need to dig deep as funds have almost run out and after 12K you would think we would have a sorted car, its been along day and enough said from me now, but I want to make clear I have not pointed the finger of blame at anyone yet Yeah totally hearing you mate, gets disheartening doesnt it. Think I need a break from this car etc for a bit, take stock and then decide - there's more important stuff in my life at the moment. Let us know what you decide to do with yours, and keep us up to date Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pig Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Hate reading all this, make me shit myself - i always worry about my car as cant afford to fix it if it goes wrong. I will be having it mapped to 1.5/6 bar (still undecided) by dan on w and will now not be running anti lag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 2nd (Alex this one is for you) The car was being mapped to Deans instructions. "safe boost and Nitrous" I was aiming for 1.5bar on the high setting. To achieve this safe mapping slightly higher boost has to be visited to allow for comprehensive mapping. The piston or ring failed whilst momentarily at 1.75bar during mapping. Nitrous was not being used at the time but had been used earlier to set-up. It's too late in the day to read all and take it all apart, but I'll comment on the bit specially for me No you don't need to go to that sort of boost level at all. You were told to map to 1.5bar, so you map to 1.5 bar and then take the settings for 1.5 bar and extrapolate out a bit of head room incase of a boost spike above 1.5bar. On pump fuel you simply DO NOT take an engine to 1.75bar. You were 110% in the wrong IMO. EDIT - And of course you could set the fuel cut to 1.6bar and save the engine that way - but then you're an experienced mapper and should know that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supra matt Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Hate reading all this, make me shit myself - i always worry about my car as cant afford to fix it if it goes wrong. I will be having it mapped to 1.5/6 bar (still undecided) by dan on w and will now not be running anti lag. Will let you all know how i get on. If this is the case mate why not just run it at 1.2 and be happy knowing it's safe rather then pushing it to its limit's and risk killing it , especially if you wont be able to afford the rebuild cost, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Here is the Pic Dan was talking about in is post (thanks for the email). Must admit this does look a little different to mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 If this is the case mate why not just run it at 1.2 and be happy knowing it's safe rather then pushing it to its limit's and risk killing it , especially if you wont be able to afford the rebuild cost, I did tell Jon to quit at 1.4bar over a PM...youthful enthusiasm knows no bounds.... Jon, if Dan likes (as he has just said) to map to .25bar over what ever you suggest I expect he's already mapped it to 1.6bar! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tDR Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Here is the Pic Dan was talking about in is post (thanks for the email). Must admit this does look a little different to mine. That does look pathetically shoddily made!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supra matt Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Here is the Pic Dan was talking about in is post (thanks for the email). Must admit this does look a little different to mine. That hole looks tiny ! no where near the size of the waste gate pipe that's welded onto it ! very bad workman ship there . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
absz Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Here is the Pic Dan was talking about in is post (thanks for the email). Must admit this does look a little different to mine. thats not how my xs manifold looks like:blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Here is the Pic Dan was talking about in is post (thanks for the email). Must admit this does look a little different to mine. What's with the oil line on the left - that looks shagged! What Dan has found, correctly, is that there is NO hole for the exhaust gas to bypass through, this absolutely has to be the reason. If the air can't get to the WG then the WG can't control the boost. THIS IS SOMETHING THE INSTALLERS SHOULD HAVE SPOTTED!!! IT IS TURBOFIT'S FAULT FOR FITTING THIS MANIFOLD WHEN IT'S QUITE CLEARLY NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE. Obviously the XS Manifold was not manufactured properly, but any installer worth their salt would have spotted it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 That does look pathetically shoddily made!!! Just took a look at a few old pics of the inside of mine (before it was put together) and it is completely different, even the route the back 3 runners take is different. The wastegate pipe is in a different position with a MUCH larger/smoother exit (at least twice the size). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suprafan72 Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 I think we all need to remember here.. that YES by increasing the boost on any engine is taking a risk.... You can have the most perfect map in the world but forcing through allot more air into your car (making the block work harder) is posing a greater risk of engine detonation and internal damage to the engine and partially (i mean partially) the tune to how long it lasts... No engine last forever.. So personal attacks on people is well out of order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 I think we all need to remember here.. that YES by increasing the boost on any engine is taking a risk.... You can have the most perfect map in the world but forcing through allot more air into your car (making the block work harder) is posing a greater risk of engine detonation and internal damage... Its done to the engine and partially (i mean partially) the tune to how long the engine lasts... Indeed - so the last thing you want is a mapper running a silly amount of boost in the name of mapping, when you have no intention of going there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt k Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Here is the Pic Dan was talking about in is post (thanks for the email). Must admit this does look a little different to mine. That does look frightfully small. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Here is the Pic Dan was talking about in is post (thanks for the email). Must admit this does look a little different to mine. That is not good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jevansio Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Even if it was mapped to 1.5 was this not a time bomb waiting to happen, a small spike on the road could have caused this days/weeks after it had been mapped? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieSteve Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 I've had 2 spikes (2bar) on the rollers due to problems not under the control of the mapper. Can't be helped really Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 That does look frightfully small. Some might say a little "bab" In my limited experience of XS manifolds it's difficult to find 10 that are identical, I guess one of the ways they keep the prices low is to remove quality control or farm the work out to whoever is cheapest each month. I don't know if Motoria do everything in-house though, maybe they do, with varying results. So moving forwards... new manifold or can it be modified? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkey Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 really need some recommendations as to who can tune my car. AEM - ask Wez for details. Ryan G EMU - IanC. To put the kit on; Pheonix, Envy or Chris Wilson. Thx Buddy, Pheonix to put the kit on for sure. Thx for the advice on the mappers. Simple really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jevansio Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 I've had 2 spikes (2bar) on the rollers due to problems not under the control of the mapper. Can't be helped really Yeah my old MR2 did too, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 QC at XS power was obviously on holiday the day that was made. After comparing it to some saved pics, it looks nothing like the others I have saved. So moving forwards... new manifold or can it be modified? After seeing the way that particular one is made, I seriously doubt its worth the effort, or even possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Here are some photos I have just taken of a brand new XSPower JZA80 manifold, witha 50 pence piece inside the plenum area to show the size of the wastegate port. The weld scatter inside the plenum is poor, although some attempt at grinding it off has been made by the manufacturers. If the WG aperture off the plenum was hand finished with a die grinder things would be a lot better, but the actual placement of the port within the plenum is very poor. I may post a pic of my HKS cast iron manifold off my RB26 engine, and my RB25 one, showing the port area on those, and my take on how the wastegate should be done if it's of interest? http://www.chriswilson.tv/xspower Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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