Pig Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 If this is the case mate why not just run it at 1.2 and be happy knowing it's safe rather then pushing it to its limit's and risk killing it , especially if you wont be able to afford the rebuild cost, Not happy with the power TBH - it was mapped when the turbo was sticking so not running right at the min TBH im running 1.2 - 1.3 now but it not quite the power i want I did tell Jon to quit at 1.4bar over a PM...youthful enthusiasm knows no bounds.... Jon, if Dan likes (as he has just said) to map to .25bar over what ever you suggest I expect he's already mapped it to 1.6bar! Alex, i wouldnt ask for your advise if i want going to listen to it You said 1.4 MAX 1.5 on odd ocassions. Therefore i ask dan 1.4 and he raises it to 1.6 to "get it right" - majority of time would be 1.5 (on high boost setting) and @ stupidly high speeds it would prob go to 1.6 (e.g 160 +) Again, thanks for your advise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suprafan72 Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Here are some photos I have just taken of a brand new XSPower JZA80 manifold, witha 50 pence piece inside the plenum area to show the size of the wastegate port. The weld scatter inside the plenum is poor, although some attempt at grinding it off has been made by the manufacturers. If the WG aperture off the plenum was hand finished with a die grinder things would be a lot better, but the actual placement of the port within the plenum is very poor. I may post a pic of my HKS cast iron manifold off my RB26 engine, and my RB25 one, showing the port area on those, and my take on how the wastegate should be done if it's of interest? http://www.chriswilson.tv/xspower That really is shocking..... I've never been an xspower fan..... i'd really not bother with any of there stuff. Yes cheap they are.. but can u really compromise quality when your tuning? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Here are some photos I have just taken of a brand new XSPower JZA80 manifold, witha 50 pence piece inside the plenum area to show the size of the wastegate port. The weld scatter inside the plenum is poor, although some attempt at grinding it off has been made by the manufacturers. If the WG aperture off the plenum was hand finished with a die grinder things would be a lot better, but the actual placement of the port within the plenum is very poor. I may post a pic of my HKS cast iron manifold off my RB26 engine, and my RB25 one, showing the port area on those, and my take on how the wastegate should be done if it's of interest? http://www.chriswilson.tv/xspower Yes please Chris, would be good to see the difference between a poor one and a proper one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaz1 Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 i did not think after many thousands on my car i did cheap stuff , think i need to read up more about things Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suprafan72 Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Not happy with the power TBH - it was mapped when the turbo was sticking so not running right at the min TBH im running 1.2 - 1.3 now but it not quite the power i want Alex, i wouldnt ask for your advise if i want going to listen to it You said 1.4 MAX 1.5 on odd ocassions. Therefore i ask dan 1.4 and he raises it to 1.6 to "get it right" - majority of time would be 1.5 (on high boost setting) and @ stupidly high speeds it would prob go to 1.6 (e.g 160 +) Again, thanks for your advise On the subject boost levels... Turbo sizes are different, engine specs are different? so its there a right or wrong boost level to have as so called "Safe"... Its mainly dependant to Engine Specs and Condition and Maintenace... At any Boost level there is a risk.. Obviously the higher it is the more risk is... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanM Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Here are some photos I have just taken of a brand new XSPower JZA80 manifold, witha 50 pence piece inside the plenum area to show the size of the wastegate port. The weld scatter inside the plenum is poor, although some attempt at grinding it off has been made by the manufacturers. If the WG aperture off the plenum was hand finished with a die grinder things would be a lot better, but the actual placement of the port within the plenum is very poor. I may post a pic of my HKS cast iron manifold off my RB26 engine, and my RB25 one, showing the port area on those, and my take on how the wastegate should be done if it's of interest? http://www.chriswilson.tv/xspower Thanks for the photos Chris, that is not good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooquicktostop Posted June 21, 2007 Author Share Posted June 21, 2007 i did not think after many thousands on my car i did cheap stuff , think i need to read up more about things Good point ! Some of us, me included just love the drive of a fast car and have no understanding of how it really works and what is good or bad, I place my trust in the people who do the job for me to ensure I get the finished product that I asked for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Here are some photos I have just taken of a brand new XSPower JZA80 manifold, witha 50 pence piece inside the plenum area to show the size of the wastegate port. The weld scatter inside the plenum is poor, although some attempt at grinding it off has been made by the manufacturers. If the WG aperture off the plenum was hand finished with a die grinder things would be a lot better, but the actual placement of the port within the plenum is very poor. I may post a pic of my HKS cast iron manifold off my RB26 engine, and my RB25 one, showing the port area on those, and my take on how the wastegate should be done if it's of interest? http://www.chriswilson.tv/xspower Thanks for posting Chris. That does look very bad indeed and again looks different to the ones I've seen. I didn't have the blobs of weld everywhere, it had been grinded back and was quite smooth (though I did do a little further grinding). Is this from a very recent one you purchased or the one you had from around a year ago? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooquicktostop Posted June 21, 2007 Author Share Posted June 21, 2007 On the subject boost levels... Turbo sizes are different, engine specs are different? so its there a right or wrong boost level to have as so called "Safe"... Its mainly dependant to Engine Specs and Condition and Maintenace... At any Boost level there is a risk.. Obviously the higher it is the more risk is... In my case I at least know that 1.5bar is pushing a stock engine and that is why I had the AEM set with a 1.2 bar option for daily driving and the 1.5 was just for the pod etc, I dont rag my car and never drive it to its full potential,to give you an example a wire was loose on the AEM for the 2 step switch and I had not even noticed because I have never used it after I saw what that did to a new GT4088 But I was worried that it failed at 1.75 bar way above any boost pressure I had asked for and after consulting some of the more tech minded peeps on here they all 100% agreed, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 OK, here's a comparison against what I consider to be proper wastegate port and adaptor sizing, the manifolds being HKS cast iron ones (now ultra rare) for the Skyline RB25 and RB26 engines, respectively. The finned stainless steel adaptor in the first pics, the RB25 manifold and `gate, is one I made to mount a Tial wastegate on it, as I didn't like the old HKS one that came with it, the poppet valve in it appeared to made out of toffee This manifold is having a fairly small single on it, a 4088R Garrett. The second manifold, the cerrachrome finished one, is the RB26 one, for a fairly big turbo, and you can see the size of the wastegate porting in comparison to the 50 pence piece dotted about the various images as a reference. The wastegate itself is much bigger, too. It should be obvious that the XSPower manifold is seriously compromised both on wastegate port size, and its location in relation to gas flow. A bit of hand porting would make a big difference, but it will never be a good design. It appears production differences are very apparent in the size of this port, which is very worrying, each manifold needs assessing on an individual basis and probably hand fettling or even re welding on a new wastegate tube. http://www.chriswilson.tv/proper_wastegate_sizing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Is this from a very recent one you purchased or the one you had from around a year ago? It's been around for about a year, and I don't know how old it was when I got it. I can't seem to sell the thing.... I actually bought it to use it as a guide for having a proper one made in Inconel, but gradually realised people would rater spend 2k plus on wheels than a proper manifold! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanM Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 No comparison is there, but as you say very rare, what are they producing instead of the cast manifold? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 It should be obvious that the XSPower manifold is seriously compromised both on wastegate port size, and its location in relation to gas flow. A bit of hand porting would make a big difference, but it will never be a good design. It appears production differences are very apparent in the size of this port, which is very worrying, each manifold needs assessing on an individual basis and probably hand fettling or even re welding on a new wastegate tube. The link doesn't appear to be working just yet. Isn't comparing a cast and tubular manifold a bit like comparing chalk and cheese? I know you are not a fan of any off-the-shelf tubular manifolds for the Supra, but what would you consider a properly positioned wastegate port from a tubular manifold, and what sort of size should that be? Is it even possible considering the way the collector has to be designed on a tubular? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 It's been around for about a year, and I don't know how old it was when I got it. I can't seem to sell the thing.... The price might have had something to do with it, they're only £120 new Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 No comparison is there, but as you say very rare, what are they producing instead of the cast manifold? Apart from kits to go on the stock twin cast iron Skyline manifolds on the RB26 HKS do tubular ones that crack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 These manifolds are very good value for money, made of excellent quality material, and have a decent size wastegate pipe. Xs power seem to have let themselves down with the internal quaility of their manifolds, but not all cheaper manifolds are the same... clicky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanM Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 I was looking at Skylines tonight ,, lol. There must be a decent manifold for the Supe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 I was looking at Skylines tonight ,, lol. There must be a decent manifold for the Supe? Arnouts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanM Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Arnouts Aren't they rarer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 The link doesn't appear to be working just yet. Isn't comparing a cast and tubular manifold a bit like comparing chalk and cheese? I know you are not a fan of any off-the-shelf tubular manifolds for the Supra, but what would you consider a properly positioned wastegate port from a tubular manifold, and what sort of size should that be? Is it even possible considering the way the collector has to be designed on a tubular? I have a picture of a Trust / Greddy one on a dummy RB25/26 engine (that cracked, and was welded, and it then cracked again and again), I used it to get a decent Inconel manifold made, as the turbo placement and wastegate takeoffs were sensible, and the flanges accurately cut. Note how the wastegate is fed from *TWO* ports, down *DECENT SIZED* pipework? This allowed good boost control on big turbos. Also note the total lack of support provision for the turbo and wastegate, one of the main resons these abortions crack up. If you want fairly hassle free single turbo manifolds I recommend Arnouts cast one. http://www.chriswilson.tv/TRUST_V_HKS/trust.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanM Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Anyone have contact details for Arnout? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Anyone have contact details for Arnout? http://www.supras.nl good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konrad Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 If it is of any help, it is also XSPower manifold for NA-T conversion, but this one looks completely different Oh and all holes look huge , actually, they are almost of size of pipes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 If it is of any help, it is also XSPower manifold for NA-T conversion, but this one looks completely different Oh and all holes look huge , actually, they are almost of size of pipes. Any chance of a pic with the crappy single layer gasket not in the way, the pics are not much use with it in the way. The runners are MUCH smaller than the TT one, so a flow issue there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konrad Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 There. 50 pense coin would easy fall into any of those pipe holes, I had to be very carefull to not loose it there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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