The Raven Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 However they are now getting want they want. My facebook is full of "nuke the middle east" "send them back" "let the navy sink the ships" bullcrap. If they wanted a us against them then they are doing a fine job indeed. The anti Muslim brigade is out in force. ISIS wins everytime this type of stuff is posted. The truth is 8% of the uk are muslim, and 99.999% want nothing to do with these people who have hijacked their belief system and twisted it to meet their own needs. The people turning up here are from Syria! stuff like this is a daily occurrence over there. You want an answer, get ISIS out of Syria so people can go home! YOu can close all the borders you want, if these people want to get in they will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellonman Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 So if military action is not what you believe is the correct way forward, what do you believe is the best way to deal with the problem? I'm sure you'll agree that 'doing nothing' isn't really an option. Go over there and make them I nice cup of tea sit down have a chat ( im sure it will offend someone some how ). Im sorry these people just cant accept modern day values and are stuck in the dark ages with belief's, best thing we could do is send over sheldon cooper from big bang theory to explain there misguided belief's are wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted November 14, 2015 Author Share Posted November 14, 2015 Western intervention in Iraq and Syria is a joke. The Russians have achieved more in a few weeks than the West has in over a year. Throwing a few bombs is not going to solve this problem. The UN has been utterly incompetent on this issue. An international coalition, ideally headed by anyone BUT the USA, should have been formed, and ground troops should have been sent in. Safe zones could have been made within Syria to house the refugees. And let's not forget, the latest EU estimate is that only 20% of these migrants are Syrian. Also, Syria have an exceptionally poor record of accepting refugees. You won't find me praising David Cameron very often, but he played a blinder in his response to the death of that poor Syrian boy. Other Western governments caved in to the hysterical 'what about the children' cries from a vocal minority, and invited the worst migration crisis seen in decades, resulting in the additional deaths of probably several hundred Syrians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted November 14, 2015 Author Share Posted November 14, 2015 They claim their cause is religion. This is totally false. No religion would ever condone actions like this. Agreed. But there is no doubt that religion does cause divisions in society. The wholesale abandonment of organised religion in the West contributes to our tolerance of others. Deeply religious regions tend to be intolerant. The dilution of religion is one of the west's great achievements IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted November 14, 2015 Author Share Posted November 14, 2015 Given Hollande's language, specifically referring to the attack as "an act of war", I wonder if he intends to invoke Article 5 - Collective Defence - of the NATO treaty? http://www.nato.int/terrorism/five.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo11 Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 However they are now getting want they want. My facebook is full of "nuke the middle east" "send them back" "let the navy sink the ships" bullcrap. If they wanted a us against them then they are doing a fine job indeed. The anti Muslim brigade is out in force. ISIS wins everytime this type of stuff is posted. The truth is 8% of the uk are muslim, and 99.999% want nothing to do with these people who have hijacked their belief system and twisted it to meet their own needs. The people turning up here are from Syria! stuff like this is a daily occurrence over there. You want an answer, get ISIS out of Syria so people can go home! YOu can close all the borders you want, if these people want to get in they will. Exactly that. Jza, you can't have looked into it too far if you really believe Russia are having a positive effect over there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo11 Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 So if military action is not what you believe is the correct way forward, what do you believe is the best way to deal with the problem? I'm sure you'll agree that 'doing nothing' isn't really an option. We could do well to learn from the Christian, Sunni, Shiite, Yazidi, Afghan, Iraqi, Pashmerga & Kurdish force that in the week joined together as one to defeat isis in Sinjar (strategically vital town) and drive them out, with the help of coalition airstrikes. That sort of coordination and working together on a united front is the only thing that will result in the destruction of isis and a long term strategy might prevent a new group taking their place, as ISIS have with AQ. Bombing the shit out of the region and shipping refugees back there 'just in case they're wrong uns' very simply won't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Supes Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 IMO, it's down to Muslims worldwide to take back their religion and shut down ISIS. They're quick to hit the streets when a cartoon of Mohammed is drawn so they're not shy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 People say its not about religion but to these people it is, they are just following a different interpretation, they are doing these things in the name of their god. The fact they have been taught this incorrectly doesn't let religion off the hook, this is the same for all religions. Two people following the same religion, one takes a peaceful path, the other a more extreme view, both there actions are still religious based in my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo11 Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 People say its not about religion but to these people it is, they are just following a different interpretation, they are doing these things in the name of their god. The fact they have been taught this incorrectly doesn't let religion off the hook, this is the same for all religions. Two people following the same religion, one takes a peaceful path, the other a more extreme view, both there actions are still religious based in my mind. A friend summed it up like this earlier, not that I'm religious in any way myself: The big book for each religion to me is like instructions to flat pack furniture, read and follow them correctly and it works out nicely and comfortably... misread or make it up yourself as you go along and you're gonna end up with a mess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted November 14, 2015 Author Share Posted November 14, 2015 Exactly that. Jza, you can't have looked into it too far if you really believe Russia are having a positive effect over there? I think they're backing the right side TBH. I'm not blind to the fact that Assad is clearly a monster. But as with Iraq, Libya, and nearly Egypt, these dictators are clearly the lesser evil. At least the Russians seem to know what they're doing. The West have been supplying weapons that have been finding their way to the Islamists. although I suppose you could quite rightly point out that Russia bares a huge responsibility for worldwide terrorism, as the weapons that all these people use are ex Soviet union. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo11 Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 The problem is that Russia really don't know what they are doing, and are indiscriminately bombing civilians, and not military targets. The Kremlin this week claimed to have bombed an "enemy stronghold" but the strike was actually geolocated to have hit about 200km away in what is generally a residential area. About 5% of their strikes are targeting isis. They're making an already massively complicated situation even more so. Can post sources if necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cered Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 http://igg.me/p/humanitarian-aid-in-iraq-syria-kurdistan/x/12530757 If you guys want to support the people fighting ISIS - The Kurds (who are also getting a beasting from Russia because they oppose Asad) then donate to the humanitarian efforts there. Link above is for medical supplies and training for combat medics and doctors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David P Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 IMO, it's down to Muslims worldwide to take back their religion and shut down ISIS. They're quick to hit the streets when a cartoon of Mohammed is drawn so they're not shy... 'Thow shalt sort out thy sheep and goats', must be in their instruction book somewhere? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted November 14, 2015 Author Share Posted November 14, 2015 But how many are really civilians? it obviously plays right into the hands of Isis recruiters if they make out the foreign airstrikes are mainly killing civilians. And although I agree that the Russians are probaby causing more collateral damage per strike, the West's half hearted efforts have lead to an extended campaign, that overall may result in more deaths. The inaction / complacency of the international community allowing this to continue as long as it has is really sickening. It's taken this massacre to open their eyes, and even now I suspect Hollande's response will be mediocre at best. Any decent leader would be taking this to the UN, and demand a resolution against Isis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted November 14, 2015 Author Share Posted November 14, 2015 http://igg.me/p/humanitarian-aid-in-iraq-syria-kurdistan/x/12530757 If you guys want to support the people fighting ISIS - The Kurds (who are also getting a beasting from Russia because they oppose Asad) then donate to the humanitarian efforts there. Link above is for medical supplies and training for combat medics and doctors The Turks have been doing more to undermine the Kurds than Russia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cered Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 The Turks have been doing more to undermine the Kurds than Russia. That's true but from what I've heard they're ISIS sympathizers... E.g. they stop people joining the Kurds, but ISIS pass through Turkey no problem. God knows what else they're up to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted November 14, 2015 Author Share Posted November 14, 2015 Erdogan is obviously playing both sides, but it seems the secular traditions of Turkey are in a very fragile state at the moment, and if he went who's to say Turkey wouldn't end up like Syria. That would obviously take this situation to a whole new level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 We could do well to learn from the Christian, Sunni, Shiite, Yazidi, Afghan, Iraqi, Pashmerga & Kurdish force that in the week joined together as one to defeat isis in Sinjar (strategically vital town) and drive them out, with the help of coalition airstrikes. That sort of coordination and working together on a united front is the only thing that will result in the destruction of isis and a long term strategy might prevent a new group taking their place, as ISIS have with AQ. Bombing the $#@! out of the region and shipping refugees back there 'just in case they're wrong uns' very simply won't work. I agree it must be a united act & well worked out but it must be done quickly & air stikes are a big part of that. Then we can send these so called refuges back to rebuild there own country under the protection of the west..... I would add that my Knee jerk reaction would be to flatten Raqqa (so called isis capitol ) & everything in it. Just to show them what we are really capable off. Sorry but thats how i feel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 I found this interesting to try and reduce my ignorance of the Syrian war https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Cgi9tz3IZWQ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Get Assad back in total control, all these hell holes were tolerably stable and predictable under dictatorships. Too many opposing factions and castes to allow a democratic existence. Hell, I am all in favour of the UK being under a benevolent dictator, I would hate to be bringing up young kids in Europe today. I have no sympathy with 90% of the economic migrants invading Europe, in fact I am becoming more embittered every day, and i know I am far from alone, even in this pretty ethnic free area. If Cameron has another bloody Cobra meeting I think I will scream, I want to see internment, compulsory ID for all, with ID checks and stop and search based on apparent ethnicity, with no Liberal whining, mass repatriation, the Channel Tunnel shut and "The Jungle" flattened, bleached and the detritus there put to hard manual work with a stick across their backs, then asked if they really want to stay in Europe. Wooo, that's better, pilly time now.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Raven Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 If saddam and Assad where still in power its highly unlikey we would be in this mess But you know weapons of mass destruction...o wait....i mean...erm???????? Oil? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo11 Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Sorry but might be worth a little bit of your time fact checking your Syrian history chaps. Couldn't be further from the truth assuming it was much better under the Assad family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Sorry but might be worth a little bit of your time fact checking your Syrian history chaps. Couldn't be further from the truth assuming it was much better under the Assad family. On a selfish level, it sure was better for us though.....no refugees or domestic terrorist attacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo11 Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 On a selfish level, it sure was better for us though.....no refugees or domestic terrorist attacks. True. Depends how far your humanity stretches I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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