David P Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 (edited) I have seen the insides of 3 dead boxes. One was a mystery overdrive mechanical failure which reduced it to a 3-speed box with clean fluid and no other issues. (O.D. has less plates and is the weakest gear.) Another was a complete clutches meltdown because the transmission had been wired incorrectly, line pressure cable was not installed and the fluid cooler not plumbed in. Another was a first gear clutch burn-out because the line-feed cable had been incorrectly mounted onto the t.b. cruise-control cam which reversed it's function. Car park burn-outs can easily tear out the second gear sprag if it changes up into second. 2 of the 3 boxes mentioned were because Expert go-faster Professionals didn't know what they were doing except how to write the bill. I don't regard myself as an expert, yet relative to the lack of knowledge in U.K. go-faster garages, that's not what some say. This obsession to Syvec everything including the Teasmade is a costly folly, leaving in the stock ECU to control the Tiptronic transmission would be my choice of install, and to shim up the actuators to speed up gear changes and reduce clutch damaging slip caused from a single turbo waking up. I sorted out Delboy52's V8 FBW VVTI and flappy-paddle transmission issues using 2 ECU's in a similar way and it works a treat. Edited March 11, 2016 by David P (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackyBoi Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 Do you really want to see a video of my Supra trying to decide which gear to go to? Hell yeah! I just want to hear the compressor stall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted March 11, 2016 Author Share Posted March 11, 2016 , leaving in the stock ECU to control the Tiptronic transmission would be my choice of install. . With hindsight, that would be what I would do, I was obviously too trusting / naive with the ecu manufacturer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob W Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 Sorry to hear mate, abit of a kick when so much time and money has gone into it. Lets hope they can get this sorted for you. I'm guessing because of the things you have changed on the intake side, you can't run the syvecs as a piggyback and the stock tiptronic ecu to run the box now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted March 11, 2016 Author Share Posted March 11, 2016 Sorry to hear mate, abit of a kick when so much time and money has gone into it. Lets hope they can get this sorted for you. I'm guessing because of the things you have changed on the intake side, you can't run the syvecs as a piggyback and the stock tiptronic ecu to run the box now. Cheers mate No, the stock gearbox control needs the stock DBW throttle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David P Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 Cheers mate No, the stock gearbox control needs the stock DBW throttle. No, the stock gearbox control needs a stock TPS and which the Syvecs would understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted March 11, 2016 Author Share Posted March 11, 2016 No, the stock gearbox control needs a stock TPS and which the Syvecs would understand. The stock TPS is an integral part of the stock DBW throttle The stock vvti throttle is a known weakness too, so if/when syvecs get it all working together, I'll be glad to be rid of the stock one, which appears to combine all the worst aspects of regular and DBW throttles with the benefits of neither Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David P Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 Bet you a pint that your special one gives the same values as the T.T. MT6 & auto ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 So why does the stock FBW throttle stuff use a cable as well as a motor drive? Redundancy in case the FBW sees a disparity in readings between the motor pot(s) and the pedal pot(s)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David P Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 (edited) At that time Mr T. hadn't gotten around to sorting out a FBW accelerator pedal? FBW performs at it's best after being thrown in the skip and replaced with a cable and throttle-body in old-money. Edited March 11, 2016 by David P (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted March 11, 2016 Author Share Posted March 11, 2016 At that time Mr T. hadn't gotten around to sorting out a FBW accelerator pedal? FBW performs at it's best after being thrown in the skip and replaced with a cable and throttle-body in old-money. The Lexus SC430, the next GT Toyota made after the Supra, used a proper DBW system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 The 3UZ-FE engine is indeed DBW and seems to work quite well, although I do hate not having a manual throttle under the bonnet I can manually blip Porsche 996 TT is also DBW but on the stock Bosch ECU is terrible to drive, a Syvecs completely transforms this and drives like a cable throttle, its hard to explain how big the difference is over the stock ECU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted March 12, 2016 Author Share Posted March 12, 2016 The 3UZ-FE engine is indeed DBW and seems to work quite well, although I do hate not having a manual throttle under the bonnet I can manually blip Maybe that's why the Supra DBW has a cable throttle? Porsche 996 TT is also DBW but on the stock Bosch ECU is terrible to drive, a Syvecs completely transforms this and drives like a cable throttle, its hard to explain how big the difference is over the stock ECU. Although it's really difficult to get a grasp of the setup due to the current gearbox mapping, the throttle feels much more precise than it did before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 On your Porsche is the Syvecs running a linear mapping with regard to pedal movement to throttle plate movement, or none linear? Can you tell from the map? Just curious as to how the "feel" can be, and is changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pudsey Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 Just out of interest how does a vvti 6 speed work, is that a drive by wire set up? Just wondering if the vvti tiptronic gearbox control is an add on to the manual system. I know you changed your setup for good reason to eradicate the oem dbw, add cruise etc, which is something the car definitely needs for long journeys. Just thinking if other owners could swap to the vvti 6 speed throttle set up, and leave the automatic gearbox control in place to run the gearbox. After all a vvti 6 speed with a single conversion on a Syvecs must work alright with no issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 I *THINK* (note **THINK***) that the Tiptronic control uses the DBW throttle control to partially close the throttle plate during some gear changes, as well as the ecu controlling things like shift solenoid timing, line pressure, torque converter lockup, and God knows what else. Even these late nineties boxes had a lot of electronic control and were already poles apart from the simple mechanical / hydraulic control auto boxes of ten years or so earlier. I suspect achieving anything even approaching the sophistication and reliability of the OE ecu control is far FAR from trivial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 On your Porsche is the Syvecs running a linear mapping with regard to pedal movement to throttle plate movement, or none linear? Can you tell from the map? Just curious as to how the "feel" can be, and is changed. I have checked a map I have here and the linearisation tables for the associated throttle and pedal position sensors is zeroed out However I do recall from mapping with Ryan that he could set any throttle target / limit live to get to the load cells he needed, similar to the affect of a hub dyno when you have your foot planted and it alters the load on the engine to target different areas of the map. The stock ECU control can only be described as twitchy, not at all smooth in operation and at low RPM cruise they really dont drive like they should, also things like hill starts etc were not a nice experience, the Syvecs transformed this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 On your Porsche is the Syvecs running a linear mapping with regard to pedal movement to throttle plate movement, or none linear? Can you tell from the map? Just curious as to how the "feel" can be, and is changed. I found the settings, was being a numpty and had delta view on in sCal, hence them showing zero in the tables, a little bit confusing. To answer your question, its almost linear but not quite, up to 50% peddle position the throttle is a little behind and then over 50% its a applying more throttle for a given pedal position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 That's similar to how Porsche have historically had the variable cam radius on conventional throttle cabled engines. The 928 was criticised for carrying it too far with sod all happening for about three quarters of the pedal travel, then a LOT happening in the last quarter. They modified this on the later 928's. I presume you could have a valet map so it only gave a tiny bit of throttle action even with the pedal mashed, with FBW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 I presume you could have a valet map so it only gave a tiny bit of throttle action even with the pedal mashed, with FBW. Correct, under the CAL switch config you can configure max throttle not just as total but also per gear, very handy indeed EDIT: just to add there are also four base target maps which can also be switched as well the per gear max switching too, lots of nice features Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellonman Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 What a shame mate gutted for you as you will grow to hate the car ifbits a pig to drive , I hope it will get sorted soon , but im pritty sure it would be quicker and cheaper to go stock ecu for gears and using the syvecs as a piggyback, Best of luck with it though mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted March 12, 2016 Author Share Posted March 12, 2016 Got a couple of pics of the Toucan display working Unfortunately it does pick up a bit of glare, which I'll have to find a solution to. Maybe make a subtle mount for it which angles it slightly away. While on the subject of the Toucan, I've had to reconfigure my maps etc to suit the 12 I can have now that the CAL operation is done through the Toucan, I'd appreciate any feedback from other Toucan/Syvecs users 1) immobiliser map 2) lean, low power MOT map, full traction control, 3000rpm rev limit 3) low octane fuel safe map, full traction, 1 bar boost 4) ‘pops and bangs’ fun map, either 1.3 or 1.6 bar depending on what you thing is best for this map, no traction control 5) 1 bar boost, no traction control 6) 1 bar boost, medium traction control 7) 1 bar boost, full traction control 8) 1.3 bar boost, no traction control 9) 1.3 bar boost, medium traction control 10) 1.3 bar boost, full traction control 11) 1.6 bar boost, no traction control 12) 1.6 bar boost, medium traction control Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackyBoi Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 I think that's absolutely spot on I'm not sure if more boost means more pops and bangs? Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, I'm sure someone else knows Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted March 12, 2016 Author Share Posted March 12, 2016 I think that's absolutely spot on I'm not sure if more boost means more pops and bangs? Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, I'm sure someone else knows Sorry, that part was for Romain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxluc Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 I have : Cal 1 : 1.3 bar Cal 2 : 1.6 bar Cal 3 : 2 bar Cal 4 : Pops & Bang Cal 5 : 2bar with LC on Cal 7 : MOT TRC is controlled over the OEM button. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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