N/A - T is it worth it ? ? ?

[Nodalmighty]

The NA-T is more of an emerging market where fresh idea's and innovation are key not just spending £££. Most people go NA-T because they couldn't afford a TT but can afford to spend a little here and there over a period of time to achieve there goals. I'm currently replacing my interior trim, upgrading my sound system, and generally tarting it up ready for a full on 700bhp NA-T conversion is a few years time. I still grab bargains as and when they pop up so by the time I'm ready I should have all the bits required already in stock.

 

Mean while I'll just use it as a development mule for my electronics and NA-T related hardware.

 

Lyndon.

[Thorin]

tl;dr

 

I say no.

[Suprakeith]

I have to say been reading through this thread a few times and its so hard to decide myself what to do as did think na-t but after chating to someone and saying that they can supply and fit a tt lump in mine for 2.5k its a hard choice as selling car isnt option for me. I only want around 500bhp so i think a tt lump dropped in then either uprated twins or a single may be cheaper than going na-t for as the tt pistons and bottom end should be relaible at that power unless i drive it like a tool

[Guest suprasteven]

here's one you may enjoy

 

Oh love the look of that car at the end!!

 

The NA-T is more of an emerging market where fresh idea's and innovation are key not just spending £££. Most people go NA-T because they couldn't afford a TT but can afford to spend a little here and there over a period of time to achieve there goals. I'm currently replacing my interior trim, upgrading my sound system, and generally tarting it up ready for a full on 700bhp NA-T conversion is a few years time. I still grab bargains as and when they pop up so by the time I'm ready I should have all the bits required already in stock.

 

Mean while I'll just use it as a development mule for my electronics and NA-T related hardware.

 

Lyndon.

 

That sounds about right!

 

When i asked if it was worth it i ment in terms of power mainly and yes a little money only because i have been told on various occasions you should have gone TT when i have been looking around on here i have noticed a big trend of N/A-T converstions so have looked into the parts and prices etc and if i could do that and achive 400bhp then that would be perfect for what i am after and definatly something different which i can do over time

 

Yes idealy i would love a car like JamieP's (when i said getting a TT and going single) but that would not be practicle for me in any way and would then become a car i couldnt use as i do with my supra now!

[Nic]

I completely understand where you are coming from mate and i'm not saying you are wrong i'm more just trying to figure out best route as i'm at this cross roads at the minute and I already have the TT gearbox/drivetrain in my NA

 

In that case I'd drop a 2JZ-GTE in it

[Abz]

In that case I'd drop a 2JZ-GTE in it

 

Exact same route I am going with my NA6

[Ian C]

There are two things that stand out for me with the NA-T, and that's compression ratio and ignition system. Everything else is just different shaped tubes to connect all the bits, and kits exist in places.

 

Lowering the comp and getting an ignition system that's up to the numbers being bandied around here is where it gets a bit left-field. Thicker head gaskets are a bit 'meh' when it comes to changing the compression ratio, bit of a nasty hack. The TT coil-on-plug ignition system can be a bit overwhelmed by higher boost and power levels, so a high-comp 600bhp on a distributor could be misfire city.

 

I assume people bandying around the rather low figures I've seen on this thread have factored in the fuel system and ECU and mapping and so forth, all the bits that aren't shiny-turbo-plus-pipework?

[Chris Wilson]

Not having piston crown cooling oil sprays on 2JZ-GE engines is also a very big disadvantage. Although that can be fixed, it comes at a price, which is where I started on this.

[Nodalmighty]

Become a ECU calibration and wiring specialists. You get most of your tuning bits and labour for nowt

 

Lyndon.

[Dan_Turism0]

There are two things that stand out for me with the NA-T, and that's compression ratio and ignition system. Everything else is just different shaped tubes to connect all the bits, and kits exist in places.

 

Lowering the comp and getting an ignition system that's up to the numbers being bandied around here is where it gets a bit left-field. Thicker head gaskets are a bit 'meh' when it comes to changing the compression ratio, bit of a nasty hack. The TT coil-on-plug ignition system can be a bit overwhelmed by higher boost and power levels, so a high-comp 600bhp on a distributor could be misfire city.

 

I assume people bandying around the rather low figures I've seen on this thread have factored in the fuel system and ECU and mapping and so forth, all the bits that aren't shiny-turbo-plus-pipework?

 

I certainly have yes, as I will be looking for around the 600bhp figure i'm doing away with the distributor and going COP, i believe the majority of the guys in the states either use VVTI coils or LS1 which is the more favoured

[bambisdad]

It depends on how far you want to go. I have gone NA/T because the car I bought is in immaculate condition and being and old git I wanted a powerful car without going into silly land chasing massive power and spending many thousands of pounds.

My boost kit has cost around £2400 fitted and tuned and puts out around 340hp at 7psi and is therefore around the same performance as a stock TT. I have learned a massive amount from doing a lot of the work myself and have enjoyed most of the process.

I am happy now just to keep adding shiny bits and have the added bonus of having a non-cat emissions test just to make life a bit easier.

I realize however that what suits me though is probably not going to be enough for most of you on here.

[Guest suprasteven]

It depends on how far you want to go. I have gone NA/T because the car I bought is in immaculate condition and being and old git I wanted a powerful car without going into silly land chasing massive power and spending many thousands of pounds.

My boost kit has cost around £2400 fitted and tuned and puts out around 340hp at 7psi and is therefore around the same performance as a stock TT. I have learned a massive amount from doing a lot of the work myself and have enjoyed most of the process.

I am happy now just to keep adding shiny bits and have the added bonus of having a non-cat emissions test just to make life a bit easier.

I realize however that what suits me though is probably not going to be enough for most of you on here.

 

Yh i get what you mean and i think for the time being i would be happy with that my car has only around 65.000 miles and was in pretty good condtion when i bought it with a really clean engine

[Noz]

Thicker head gaskets are a bit 'meh' when it comes to changing the compression ratio, bit of a nasty hack.

 

By lowering compression alone then yes your right it would be better to use pistons or both, but the GTE uses a 1.6mm gasket and toyota got that compression ratio with that head gasket, so considering the NA uses a smaller one I think it's worth considering if toyota get twinturbo compression with a gasket then why can't NA-T owners go the same route mate. If it caused knock that bad, how come so many people do it already (clearly not in the UK, as the idea is poo-poo'ed by so many people that haven't tried it, not saying you havent just people in general). This is such a topic of opinions, there are hardly any NA owners following the US NA-T design tactics and doing this, so unless people have used a thicker HG on a 2JZGE I think the research speaks for itself and its definitely worth trying dude.

 

I certainly have yes, as I will be looking for around the 600bhp figure i'm doing away with the distributor and going COP, i believe the majority of the guys in the states either use VVTI coils or LS1 which is the more favoured

 

I wouldn't go LS1. They are expensive and not the only thing on the market. There are many other ways to do COP, some of which aren't used often on threads or forums, widen your research to other areas, and more important other engines. Toyota done a decent job of making 2JZ coils, they also designed other systems which are not as commonly looked into, since the 2JZ toyota have continued making engines which people forget sometimes.

Edited July 3, 2012 by Noz (see edit history)

[dr_jekyll]

vectra v6 coils work well. but the ignition systen with the dizzy does me fine . aslong as you have a healthy coils with good leads upto 600 bhp shouldnt be an issue. if people can make them figures on the 3s with the same ignition systen it souldnt be a problem on the 2j

[cooke]

Any chance of getting a list of what you would need to turbo an na

[-Welsh-Stealth-]

Search button, plenty of build threads about

[Nic]

Any chance of getting a list of what you would need to turbo an na

 

See my earlier post for a rough idea.

 

http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?272496-N-A-T-is-it-worth-it&p=3437089&viewfull=1#post3437089

[TubbyTwo]

Any chance of getting a list of what you would need to turbo an na

 

The correct insurance?

[Dan_Turism0]

vectra v6 coils work well. but the ignition systen with the dizzy does me fine . aslong as you have a healthy coils with good leads upto 600 bhp shouldnt be an issue. if people can make them figures on the 3s with the same ignition systen it souldnt be a problem on the 2j

 

Yeah i assumed the dizzy would cope fine up to around that power with decent leads however deleting it is also for aesthetic reasons too

[Nic]

By lowering compression alone then yes your right it would be better to use pistons or both, but the GTE uses a 1.6mm gasket and toyota got that compression ratio with that head gasket, so considering the NA uses a smaller one I think it's worth considering if toyota get twinturbo compression with a gasket then why can't NA-T owners go the same route mate.

 

The stock 2JZ-GTE head gasket is 1.2mm, the design of the piston crown and combustion chamber are what give the GTE it's 8.5:1 compression ratio.

 

Fitting a thicker head gasket on a 2JZ-GE will lower the the compression but it's a crude way of doing so because it screws up the squish area - the flat area between the piston and head designed to force the gasses to the centre of the combustion chamber.

Edited July 4, 2012 by Nic (see edit history)

[RoyBoy7]

So when changing to TT pistons which size head gasket is best to use ?

[Noz]

The stock 2JZ-GTE head gasket is 1.2mm, the design of the piston crown and combustion chamber are what give the GTE it's 8.5:1 compression ratio.

 

Fitting a thicker head gasket on a 2JZ-GE will lower the the compression but it's a crude way of doing so because it screws up the squish area - the flattened area between the piston and head designed to force the gasses to the centre of the combustion chamber.

 

I stand corrected, I thought the HG was 1.6mm, my mistake.

 

There is an area where this doesn't make a huge amount of difference, both engines can handle twice their power without this being an issue, so with some room for error it might not be the best way, but it won't cause the engine to starve itself completely.

 

I do agree it's not the 'best' way to do it due to flow, but considering there's margin for error you can cause a flow issue without it being too detrimental to the dynamics of flow. I'm not saying a thick HG is the way forward, I just think there is room to lower the effectiveness of flow and still get good results. Screwing up the squish area to an extent where you cause the engine problems obviously isn't recommended, but if you only cause a small problem that the engine can handle and more than double your power then why not.

 

So when changing to TT pistons which size head gasket is best to use ?

 

You don't have to do both, it depends what your goal is. Swapping TT pistons is the prefered way of doing it, you can a standard NA gasket with some amazing results. I would rather have a compression ratio too low than have it too high. It depends on your aim and application.

[RoyBoy7]

So if the TT hg is 1.6mm . How thick is the NA hg?

[Nic]

So if the TT hg is 1.6mm . How thick is the NA hg?

 

The stock GTE head gasket is 1.2mm, no idea what the GE is.

[Noz]

So if the TT hg is 1.6mm . How thick is the NA hg?

 

GE headgasket 0.2mm I beleive.