Blackwidow Supra

Ah so you guys use the 8 rated sparks? Mines got 7's in at the minute but need changing again soon. Do you really need 8's?

Picked this up yesterday. Not completed yet as the mapping will be completed on Monday (got a base + road map on it for now).

Other small electrical bits need doing.

FIRST IMPRESSIONS:

It sounds so different.....

Even with the road map (0.7bar max) it really does fly - I am looking forward to the mapping session on Monday.

Will post the details once it is completed and recognise the people that put in the time to get it to be like this.

Thx for all the advice, it really helped.

Nice to meet you yesterday, I am really interested in how this turbo performs

Nice one Imi...

Mapping went completely pear shaped on Monday......for whatever reason the car wasnt sparking the way it should. Ryan seems to believe its an ignition related issue.

I've now dumped the copper spark plugs and replaced them with iridums.

For now, Ryan's put a 95 RON, 1 bar map on the car to get me safely to and from Le Mans. Will look into this again once I am back.

FYI: It was pushing 435 bhp on the fly @ 1.1bar (we were expecting this to be closer to 500; engine sounded rough, after one hour of troubleshooting we changed the 6 cylinder spark plug and instantly the car sounded like a 6 again - a bit too late though to get the car back on the rollers )

Car is turning into a money pit......

P.S: some pics of the car @ Pheonix from Friday last.

All that costly shiny and anodised stuff, yet a set of copper core plugs.....

All that costly shiny and anodised stuff, yet a set of copper core plugs.....

I was under the impression mapping should be done on copper core, I remember that conversation when my engine let go last year and mine was being mapped on iridium plugs ??

Car is turning into a money pit......

 

 

damn mate, hope it doesn't cost too much. Im sure once its finished it will be great.

This is the main factor that puts me off the whole single idea. I think a brand new set of stockers or hybrids will be my move when the time comes and maybe addition of water/meth kit

get some vids up when its all complete mate

damn mate, hope it doesn't cost too much. Im sure once its finished it will be great.

 

This is the main factor that puts me off the whole single idea. I think a brand new set of stockers or hybrids will be my move when the time comes

 

get some vids up when its all complete mate

I went to see mine today and this is the forth single car I have built and if one thing is consistent it is the spending of vast amounts of money, my car and many others suffers from the need to replace old parts to ensure all bases are covered to handle the new power, it is a list that is way beyond the single kit

I hope you get it all sorted on your return IMI, never no I may have mine back by the time you return from Le Mans

All that costly shiny and anodised stuff, yet a set of copper core plugs.....

Didn't have you down as a plug snob Chris:p

I went to see mine today and this is the forth single car I have built and if one thing is consistent it is the spending of vast amounts of money, my car and many others suffers from the need to replace old parts to ensure all bases are covered to handle the new power, it is a list that is way beyond the single kit

 

I hope you get it all sorted on your return IMI, never no I may have mine back by the time you return from Le Mans

Thanks for that Dean, I did think this after all the research I have done into single conversions, this seems to be the conclusion I end up with which ever way I look at it and there is never a cheap way to it with out cutting corners which is not a good idea, I rememer speaking to you about this at jap show with my old man ha ha when you went up in Toms skyline

Anyways, best of luck to imi and yourself, im sure they are both gonna be beasts once finished

Just to expand on this, the car from the off was developing quite low power compared to other setup like this which i have done. The fueling etc was spot on but the engine would just not take any timing..

As something was not right i decide to leave it at 1.1bar and investigate further.

My view was it was a crap batch of fuel or 95ron was in the car. Needless to say its not the first time i have seen crap fuel from tesco and is why i always recommend to stay with vpower. Mind you its not the first time I have had a customer accidentally fill up with normal unleaded or diesel

I then checked the breather system to make sure that no excess oil containmation was entering the engine as this lowers the octane level of the mixture and it was fine.

Then while the car was idling I noticed it sounded not as silky as a 2jzgte normal does, epically through the cans. I initially thought it might have jumped a tooth on the cam timing but this was.

So decided to start looking at the coil pack connectors and sparks. While doing this compression checking the engine to make sure if was healthy. All were around 150-160psi with in an 8psi tolerance.

While the sparks were out i noticed that the number 6 spark was not burning 100%. As i carry spare plugs i thought i would swap out this one and see how it sounded....

Instantly the car was smoother and felt alot more responsive so i road checked it with the Cans and felt it was best to call it a day. I dont like rushing things and did not want to be putting the car back on the dyno to try and get the best from it the night before Le Mans.

Have a nice trip Imi and see you when you get back

Ryan

Mapping went completely pear shaped on Monday......for whatever reason the car wasnt sparking the way it should. Ryan seems to believe its an ignition related issue.

 

I've now dumped the copper spark plugs and replaced them with iridums.

 

For now, Ryan's put a 95 RON, 1 bar map on the car to get me safely to and from Le Mans. Will look into this again once I am back.

 

FYI: It was pushing 435 bhp on the fly @ 1.1bar (we were expecting this to be closer to 500; engine sounded rough, after one hour of troubleshooting we changed the 6 cylinder spark plug and instantly the car sounded like a 6 again - a bit too late though to get the car back on the rollers )

 

Car is turning into a money pit......

 

 

P.S: some pics of the car @ Pheonix from Friday last.

Nightmare, i know how you feel when having problems during a dyno session, luckily mine turned out ok with abit of spannering, and btw i`m on ngk coppers @ 1.4 bar with no issues.

Nightmare, i know how you feel when having problems during a dyno session, luckily mine turned out ok with abit of spannering, and btw i`m on ngk coppers @ 1.4 bar with no issues.

I personally dont see the problem with coppers either....just bin em every 3-4000 miles....job done + there cheap enough and I have always used them with no probs

Im with coppers instead of iridiums too cheap & easy to replace every 3-4 thousands miles

The last thing you want are copper plug in an engine that will see incorrect fuel mixtures during or before mapping, but if less than a hundred quid saved on a project like this means so much .....

The last thing you want are copper plug in an engine that will see incorrect fuel mixtures during or before mapping, but if less than a hundred quid saved on a project like this means so much .....

Why Chris? I thought it was the iridium plugs that have a nasty habit of breaking down under lean conditions, not the coppers?

The copper ones pretty tried and tested for the single supra's here, none that I know of have ever melted a plug before or during mapping. The iridiums on the other hand have been know to break up and cause massive damage to the cylinders, bore and valves.

Imi, would you be okay if I split this out to a technical thread? It's a good subject.

I am not being specific about brands and their foibles, just stating that the much wider heat range and fine precious metal tips of platinum and other precious metal plugs resist fouling FAR better than the relatively narrow heat range of copper tipped plugs. So when you foul up your el cheapo copper tipped plugs with some "safe mapping" to get you running, or to drive to the dyno (or worse still, whilst you "just run it on low boost whilst deciding who can map it") they will stay fouled. They will give weird on boost misfires et cetera. Those with platinum tipped plugs will still maybe see some fouling, but the nature of these beasts means the fine electrode burns off carbon and other deposits far far far better than copper and the plugs self clean to a large extent.

A precious tipped plug will withstand running outside the higher end of its heat range without the tip failing far more reliably than a copper electrode, too, so you have some safety margin in there, which can be a Godsend.

Since the introduction of precious metal tipped plugs the need to warm up race engines on "warm" plugs and quickly change to "cold" plugs is all but redundant as the precious metal tips will burn off the contaminants that build on cold starts themselves.

I have had umpteen experiences of turbo engines exhibiting weird, random or even supposedly impossible to cure misfires directly attributable to copper plugs being subject to less than optimum combustion conditions at some time in their lives, and never recovering. It's VERY rare for this to happen to the more expensive and much wider range precious metal tipped plugs.

Sorry but i would much rather have a fouled plug than a melted/disintegrated plug, coppers are much better at coping with detonation than some of the more precious plugs, heard of too many people lunching an engine on iridiums.

I have pictures of all my plugs and cylinders from the engine failure, this was the plug from #2, they were brand new before the mapping session

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/7/18104510156.jpg

The result is well documented !

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/6/18013301624.jpg

I was told at the time I should have mapped on copper, dont think it would have saved the engine but it does raise an interesting talking point as mine is due to be mapped again in a couple of weeks

Ooh nasty:Pling:

Why Chris? I thought it was the iridium plugs that have a nasty habit of breaking down under lean conditions, not the coppers?

 

The copper ones pretty tried and tested for the single supra's here, none that I know of have ever melted a plug before or during mapping. The iridiums on the other hand have been know to break up and cause massive damage to the cylinders, bore and valves.

 

Imi, would you be okay if I split this out to a technical thread? It's a good subject.

Sure.

When I get back on Monday, I will post up my experience of the car so far....and in a seperate thread, perhaps my losing of my LeMans virginity too

Instantly the car was smoother and felt alot more responsive so i road checked it with the Cans and felt it was best to call it a day. I dont like rushing things and did not want to be putting the car back on the dyno to try and get the best from it the night before Le Mans.

 

That rules out me putting in normal unleaded fuel - I can guarantee that the fuel in there is Tesco 99. From now onwards until we map the car, I shall try and use VPower. Your explanation of both fuels made logical sense.

Having changed the spark we all agree that the car was instantly responsive and like you said "its a different engine".....I hope the iridums fair better.

Speak soon.

 

I was told at the time I should have mapped on copper, dont think it would have saved the engine but it does raise an interesting talking point as mine is due to be mapped again in a couple of weeks

I will let Ryan and Mark decide what plugs they will leave in the car when it comes to mapping it to 1.4bar when I get back.

I dont see any mention of a HKS DLI, do you have or plan to get one?

 

...........

 

By who?

 

Is your car VVTI?

 

Wez... Quick question... Does the VVTI make a difference to needing the DLI?

Wez... Quick question... Does the VVTI make a difference to needing the DLI?

Yes.