Evo 8 brakes fitted

[Muffleman]

Now, take you fucking head out your arse

It's a pointless effort by someone that has always valued flashiness over actual effectiveness. The swept volume won't be any greater and the stopping power probably reduced over a working set of UK's. But don't let that stop you. And as for running spacers to get your bits of bling on . 16 different blues, wonky stitching and brakes from a car 200kgs lighter....way to go.

 

Admittedly I haven't seen him polish anything or attempt upholstery work in the dark with a blindfold on, but I personally wouldn't let that diminish my opinions of his technical abilities.

 

As for him not being able to afford a Supra, when was the last time you offered to pay someone cash instead of polishing stuff in return

 

And as for the Brembo's, you do realise that most owners that seriously use their Evos upgrade those very Brembos as quickly as they can, as they are very poor OEM spec ones which fade faster than a firework. Just thought you might want to know that wee fact seeing as it's home truth day. The stock UK spec brakes on the Supra however will cheerfully survive a good caning around a circuit. They aren't red, though, and don't, however, have a nice blingy logo on, so if that's your priority then good luck to you and indeed the car in front of you.

 

-Ian

 

It's not 'home truths day' and quite frankly I'm apalled at the speed and personal level at which this insults were hurled. You might not like Wayne's car, I might not like Wayne's car (although I'm not saying that) but the fact is it's his pride and joy that he has worked hard on and spent a lot of time and money on.

 

I have seen some cars on here that are quite frankly awful, and I daresay some don't like my stickers or ironing board spoiler, but at least I have the common decency of refraining from childish insults.

 

Not impressed guys, not impressed at all - real playground bullying tactics. This club has changed in just the the few years I have been year, and it's not always the new and not so supra-educated that bring this forum down.

 

There is a very real issue in that Wayne could be selling brake kits that are unproven on the Supra, but he has put a set of the brakes on his car and I guess was seeing if there would be interest in developing such a brake kit for other members as an alternative to the UK setup. What happened then was that Wayne was asked some relevant questions albeit in a less than pleasant bedside manner, yes he over reacted slightly but it certainly didn't warrant the personal attacks that followed.

 

Maybe I'm alone in thinking this and yeah maybe a 24hour ban is on the cards, but I do think this is damaging the club spirit.

[Terminator]

Unless these are the GT kits that a lot of Evo owners put on instead of the standard Brembos, I can't see the point, unless it is purely a looks thing.

[Homer]

Not impressed guys, not impressed at all - real playground bullying tactics. This club has changed in just the the few years I have been year, and it's not always the new and not so supra-educated that bring this forum down.

 

There is a very real issue in that Wayne could be selling brake kits that are unproven on the Supra, but he has put a set of the brakes on his car and I guess was seeing if there would be interest in developing such a brake kit for other members as an alternative to the UK setup. What happened then was that Wayne was asked some relevant questions albeit in a less than pleasant bedside manner, yes he over reacted slightly but it certainly didn't warrant the personal attacks that followed.

 

This isn't playground bullying, the questions asked are valid.

 

Wayne is a professional trader and club sponsor, and as such must be able to substantiate any claims to cross examination; so to speak.

 

The Evo brakes are know to be a bit of a weak point for the serious modders on the MLR, so quite why they would be useful upgrade on a heavier car with poorer FR weight distribution is quite beyond me. I think we all need to see some specs on these Brembo brakes and see if they do offer any *proven* benefit over the "uk" spec brakes.

 

Some of the comments regarding Wayne's car are a little out of context to this thread. However, Wayne, if you don't want to hear things like this, don't start slinging mud in the first place.

 

Edited to add that I'm not bitching at your post Matt, you've highlighted some relevant points but the reply is to the thread in general

[Jake]

Unless these are the GT kits that a lot of Evo owners put on instead of the standard Brembos, I can't see the point, unless it is purely a looks thing.

I believe these are the standard 'Brembo's that so many Evo owners are taking off their cars (cos they aren't very good) and replacing with the more adequate GT ones. This, I think, is why these callipers are so readily available on eBay etc.

 

Lets face it, if they didn't have the "Brembo" logo on them nobody would be interested.

[JamieP]

I had an evo 7 a while ago which is simlar weight to the supra and had these very brakes fitted to it, imo the brakes on that car with oem pads (put green stuff pads on for a while and they was crap) was devastatingly good, I can see this being a very good upgrade for anyone on j-specs and maybe even uk's:)

[JustGav]

It's not 'home truths day' and quite frankly I'm apalled at the speed and personal level at which this insults were hurled. You might not like Wayne's car, I might not like Wayne's car (although I'm not saying that) but the fact is it's his pride and joy that he has worked hard on and spent a lot of time and money on.

 

Not impressed guys, not impressed at all - real playground bullying tactics. This club has changed in just the the few years I have been year, and it's not always the new and not so supra-educated that bring this forum down.

 

Maybe I'm alone in thinking this and yeah maybe a 24hour ban is on the cards, but I do think this is damaging the club spirit.

 

Agreed.... As per the other thread it seems to occur far to regularly now. I don't have a problem with most people on here, but there does seem to be an attack culture on here. Matt I'm with you on this.

[Dnk]

how did you quantify this, what size pistons do the brembos have over the stock UK specs, these are genuine questions as i really cannot see how this set up using 4 pots and same diameter rotors (and £200 more expensive) has ANY advantage over the UK set up

 

 

I doubt it its any better than a uk set up other than possibly they weigh less.

 

You can only stop as quickly as friction will let you, all you can gain is less fade and better pedal feel as in less effort requiered for the same braking force which is where the 6 pot and 8 pot calipers win hands down but if there 4 pots and the same rotor size then i cant see what the benefit can be.

[b_have]

Actually Wayne I think you'll find Alex has a large amount of real world experience having owned two Supras so far, got the first E-Manage Blue working on a VVTi setup in the UK (with some help ), and is currently restoring JB's car to some form of mechanical happiness - for free, just for the love of the car. Admittedly I haven't seen him polish anything or attempt upholstery work in the dark with a blindfold on, but I personally wouldn't let that diminish my opinions of his technical abilities.

 

As for him not being able to afford a Supra, when was the last time you offered to pay someone cash instead of polishing stuff in return

 

And as for the Brembo's, you do realise that most owners that seriously use their Evos upgrade those very Brembos as quickly as they can, as they are very poor OEM spec ones which fade faster than a firework. Just thought you might want to know that wee fact seeing as it's home truth day. The stock UK spec brakes on the Supra however will cheerfully survive a good caning around a circuit. They aren't red, though, and don't, however, have a nice blingy logo on, so if that's your priority then good luck to you and indeed the car in front of you.

 

-Ian

 

Blingist.

[grahamc]

I had an evo 7 a while ago which is simlar weight to the supra and had these very brakes fitted to it, imo the brakes on that car with oem pads (put green stuff pads on for a while and they was crap) was devastatingly good, I can see this being a very good upgrade for anyone on j-specs and maybe even uk's:)

 

This is precisely what I have heard and read about the brake setups.

[hiten55]

tyranosuprarex has these on his and he's raving about how good they are.

 

come on guys, give him a break, he's still figuring bits out before he puts them up for sale - which he's admited too.....

[JamieP]

Agreed.... As per the other thread it seems to occur far to regularly now. I don't have a problem with most people on here, but there does seem to be an attack culture on here. Matt I'm with you on this.

 

Agreed, same people as always.

[colsoop]

It is more likely to be a j spec (small brakes)owner who would want the upgrade. i imagine the brembos are better performing than the j specs but lots of us (me included) still run them without major issues.

Give the guy time to get some research done.

[SUPRASUZUKI]

It is more likely to be a j spec (small brakes)owner who would want the upgrade. i imagine the brembos are better performing than the j specs but lots of us (me included) still run them without major issues.

Give the guy time to get some research done.

 

[dandan]

Looks like a nice job Wayne and would look even better with the rears done as well.

 

I don't want to get involved with any so say mud slinging but do have a few questions/points:

 

Can we see the templates/drawings you were given by Mark Rz to make the brackets or did you buy these or come to some sort of arrangement with him whereby they wouldn't be shown to other members?

 

I agree this MAY be a decent budget upgrade to people not happy with J spec brakes or those who like to see a Brembo badged caliper in their wheels. Without testing I wouldn't like to comment on the effectiveness compared to a UK spec setup but I know they're often swapped out by Evo owners for the GT setup if they're looking for improved braking - especially on a track.

 

They do look good though.

[Alex]

Give the guy time to get some research done.

 

Amen to that, all I wanted to know was how they fitted with standard wheels...but I got told to "p1ss off"...to which I reacted too strongly but never-the-less stand by all my non profane statements.

[SUPRASUZUKI]

Just out of interest, are there any tests planned to prove / disprove the effectiveness of the set-up?

Cleland speaks highly of the set-up, Jamie P also.

Will there be any more science other than 'users' gut feel?

 

PS, I'm not trying to be inflamatory, I'm just curious.

[M4RK RZ]

It is more likely to be a j spec (small brakes)owner who would want the upgrade. i imagine the brembos are better performing than the j specs but lots of us (me included) still run them without major issues.

Give the guy time to get some research done.

 

 

I love the way some of you think gettin het up is constructive towards mr dibbs

 

Rome - 1 day and all that

[Branners]

Agreed.... As per the other thread it seems to occur far to regularly now. I don't have a problem with most people on here, but there does seem to be an attack culture on here. Matt I'm with you on this.

 

I see the problem being that theres lots of technical bullshit now turning up on the forum. In the last year we have seen a massive increase in failures on an engine that is known to be capable of running some serious power before failing. We have seen 'performance upgrades' that have been detrimental to the car they were fitted on, and anybody who dares to question the technical side of these things is beaten to death by the fanboi brigade and so backs away from any more discussions.

 

There are many technical people on this forum who have chosen not to post any more as their technical views are dismissed by just those fanboi groups in just such a way as above.

 

I agree that Alex could have worded the question better, but the technical answers havent really materialised and people have focused on how the question was answered and not what was asked.

 

I cannot accept for instance that an Evo weighs the same as a mkiv supra. At 3400lbs the supra is a big car, is the Evo really that heavy? So can brakes from a lighter car work better than UK spec 4 pots (which were infact the fastest stopping brakes on a mass-produced car when they were released).

 

Now I even hesitate to post that as I know it will then descend in to another flame war. Those who are way more technical than me will have side stepped this thread completely as they cannot be bothered with the agro of explaining to people who wont listen.

 

I think what we have to do is get to a point where technical discussions can be had around these things by people who actually know what they are talking about, without unfounded claims being thrown in and vague comments appearing.

 

Perhaps its time we redefined how the technical section of the forum should work, or perhaps Im out of tune with the forum now.

 

JB

[dandan]

I see the problem being that theres lots of technical bullshit now turning up on the forum.

 

There are many technical people on this forum who have chosen not to post any more as their technical views are dismissed by just those fanboi groups in just such a way as above.

 

Those who are way more technical than me will have side stepped this thread completely as they cannot be bothered with the agro of explaining to people who wont listen.

 

Perhaps its time we redefined how the technical section of the forum should work,

 

JB

 

AGREED...AGREED...AGREED...AGREED...I had to really make an effort to post here and tip toe around the questions so as not to upset anyone.

 

The tech side of this forum (in my opinion) has deteriorated BADLY is the last 9 months or so and to be honest I'm not at all suprised by some of the guys who just can't be bothered anymore. Personally I rarely contribute to so say tech discussions now because of the resultant aggro from questioning and discussion.

[grahamc]

Does anyone have the manufacturer weights of the evos and the supra?

 

I agree that there are concerns about brakes from a lighter car being put onto a heavier car.

 

However, surely brembo/technology has advanced since the UK 4 pot setup was originally developed?

[dandan]

 

However, surely brembo/technology has advanced since the UK 4 pot setup was originally developed?

 

That maybe the case - however that does not mean that these Brembos are more effective than they need to be for the Evo. Brake development may well have moved on (I'm sure if the Supra was designed in the last 5-6 years the brakes may be different) but that does not mean in any way that these are superior to the UK Supra brake setup.

[Alex]

Evo8 weighs 1400KGS. Hence why I said it was 200kgs lighter

 

My final thought on the matter is this.

 

Brembo make a full kit for the Supra....if what they put on the Evo was suitable in THEIR eyes then that kit would include these parts and not the significantly beefed up items Brembo do sell for the Supra.

 

I have nothing against people trying something new - but I don't want it being peddled as an "upgrade" if it's not. Having to run spacers is extremely detrimental....

[grahamc]

That maybe the case - however that does not mean that these Brembos are more effective than they need to be for the Evo. Brake development may well have moved on (I'm sure if the Supra was designed in the last 5-6 years the brakes may be different) but that does not mean in any way that these are superior to the UK Supra brake setup.

 

I completely agree, however it is another factor in this matter, since everyone is saying that because its not bigger, its not better...

[Alex]

I completely agree, however it is another factor in this matter, since everyone is saying that because its not bigger, its not better...

 

There is no information - that's one of the things us techy's would like to fill in the blanks...wasn't necessarily trying to trip anyone up....

 

The swept area doesn't look very big and that can have a major impact on braking torque/effort. It's not just the size of the rotors that counts.

[Digsy]

There's an easy way to settle at least part of this.

 

Just post up the following dimensions of each brake setup: Brembo EVO8 / Stock Supra J-spec 2pot and stock Supra UK spec 4-pot:

 

Distance from centre of hub to middle of brake pad.

Diameter of pistons in brake caliper.

 

This will enable me to work out the braking torque per unit effort applied at the pedal (assuming that the master cylinder is the same on all three versions).

 

Assuming all other things remain equal (brake pad friction, caliper rigidity, fade, etc, etc) then that is at least a dispassionate comparison of each setup. We already know that different pad materials can stop better or worse, or be more or less resistant to fade, so removing them from the equation is probably an even fairer comparison.

 

I'd be happy to do the calcs if someone can post up the data. I had a quick look on Google but I can't find anything.