MarkR Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 There's an easy way to settle at least part of this. Just post up the following dimensions of each brake setup: Brembo EVO8 / Stock Supra J-spec 2pot and stock Supra UK spec 4-pot: Distance from centre of hub to middle of brake pad. Diameter of pistons in brake caliper. This will enable me to work out the braking torque per unit effort applied at the pedal (assuming that the master cylinder is the same on all three versions). Assuming all other things remain equal (brake pad friction, caliper rigidity, fade, etc, etc) then that is at least a dispassionate comparison of each setup. We already know that different pad materials can stop better or worse, or be more or less resistant to fade, so removing them from the equation is probably an even fairer comparison. I'd be happy to do the calcs if someone can post up the data. I had a quick look on Google but I can't find anything. Right, I've just noticed this thread, and seeing as I have first hand experience, I thought i'd add my views. I had standard j-spec brakes, disks and pads. I've just been down to do some measurements, although my setup is different and doesn't require any spacers, as I used UK Spec disks (although they're grooved DBA's), not the evo disks. I used Evo pads (red stuff) and Evo8 calipers. See attached pics for rough measurements (excuse the brake dust ) The weight difference in the calipers was quite large. Using a kitchen scale (when fitting) I measured the J-spec calipers at 2.8kg's, while the Brembo's never even broke the 1kg mark (see pic). I didn't weight the disks. The measurements are: 5.5cm from disk surface to outside of caliper 12.5cm from centre of hub to widest part of caliper (roughly the centre) Excuse the pic quality - mobile phone All I can say is the difference is truly amazing from j-spec to Brembo. I can't comment on the UK brakes as I've never tried them. Cheers Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M4RK RZ Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 Two proffesional engineers? Ok, I'm not offended. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digsy Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 Ok, since a few people are picking up on trying to do this by measurement here's what I need again: 1) The radius from hub centre to the middle of the pad as measured by TyranoSupraRex above (the 12.5cm dimension). 2) The diameter of the pistons in the caliper. This is very important as I can't work out if there is any difference in the mechiancal advantage between different brake setups. The rest I can assume (for a very simplified initial analysis). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkR Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 Pity I didn't measure them when I installed them (but i'm not that familiar with braking physics). Hiten, do you have those ones you bought yet for measuring? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnd-mkiv Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 Ill be putting new pads in mine this weekend so ill get some dimesions up for the brembos im using evo disks too The whole kit has set me back around £250 not bad for an upgrade on the j specs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul mac Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 No you won't. For the last time, I only flamed when told to piss off for asking questions sorry Alex my slight rant wasn't directed at you as i believe you were provoked, brake upgrade from 2003 E/CLS55 AMG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbeh Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 Paul, no one is saying people shouldnt upgrade brakes.. they're only questioning about 'upgrading' to a kit that appears to have has less braking ability than the current UK one and was designed for a lighter car!? Clearly the kit you have lined up is beefier and has been taken from a heavier car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul mac Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 Paul, no one is saying people shouldnt upgrade brakes.. they're only questioning about 'upgrading' to a kit that appears to have has less braking ability than the current UK one and was designed for a lightercar fair point Bobby like i say i have my concerns as to whether this is actually an "upgrade" or not, i apologise for my UK bashing statement (i really must moderate my red wine consumption;)) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 sorry Alex my slight rant wasn't directed at you as i believe you were provoked, brake upgrade from 2003 E/CLS55 AMG Something designed to stop a 2tonne 400+Hp barge is likely to be fairly effective on a Supra!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 All I can say is the difference is truly amazing from j-spec to Brembo. I can't comment on the UK brakes as I've never tried them. Cheers Mark Some good info there... I think this could be a useful upgrade for people on JDM 2pot brakes. But only if it means they can avoid the cost of buying new wheels to accomodate larger brakes. Mark, do you think a stock 16" wheel could clear them without a spacer? Do you have access to such a wheel to try?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 I have tried searching to no avail. A few years back there was a link to a list of cars and the HP stopping power of their OEM brakes. All I remember was that 4 Pot/2 pot MKIV was very high up the list. If memory serves me correctly, which it rarely does these days, the MKIV had 700bhp of stopping power. F1 brakes headed the list with a huge figure in the 1000's. Has any one got a link to this or a more up to date list. It may help to bring some facts to the debate. Perhaps we need a process, that will give any non standard safety modification that is proposed to be sold to members, will be scrutinised by tech moderators. This this enable a dispassionate description/ analysis to be made. I know some other forums will only allow sale of fabricated parts after moderator approval. This is not a dig anyone, and certainly not this thread in particular, but as a club we surely have some responsibility to ensure non OEM items sold, are safe and will do the job they are claimed to do. Subjective evaluations of any product are never helpful especially where safety is concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkR Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 Some good info there... I think this could be a useful upgrade for people on JDM 2pot brakes. But only if it means they can avoid the cost of buying new wheels to accomodate larger brakes. Mark, do you think a stock 16" wheel could clear them without a spacer? Do you have access to such a wheel to try?? I don't have access to 16" wheels, but maybe somone who has 16's on could measure the distance 12.5 cm's from the centre of the hub from the disk to the spokes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamc Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 Something designed to stop a 2tonne 400+Hp barge is likely to be fairly effective on a Supra!! so a parachute and anchor are needed the braking power chart provided earlier in this thread was really good! I am now looking at doing the refurb of the calipers and going with the grooved discs, mintex. Hopefully the CW pads are a good combo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamc Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 Just found this on planet Soarer. Makes interesting reading (if true of course). Here's the link. http://planetsoarer.com/suprabrakesII/SupraBrakeUpgrade.htm Braking performance comparison: Vehicle Braking horsepower Ferrari F1 7000+ Porsche Twin Turbo GT1 2060 Brembo/AP 6 pot 385mm discs 2040 Mercedes Brabus V12 1950 Supra TT 4 pots with Mintex grooved discs 1760 Wilwood Rallystop 4pot 355mm discs 1750 Brembo/AP 6 pot 355mm discs 1680 Maclaren F1 1670 Supra TT 4 pots 1665 Wilwood Rallystop 4pot 320mm discs 1640 Brembo/AP 6 pot 320mm discs 1590 Porsche 996 C2/C4 1590 Ferrari 456GT 1480 Supra / Soarer TT 2 pots 1010 Lamborghini Muira (1966) 780 Ford Mondeo 2Ltr Saloon 700 I think some people may have missed this chart!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobSheffield Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 I think some people may have missed this chart!! Im not sure what your point is...Alex is pointing out that Mercedes brakes are a good idea.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 Im not sure what your point is...Alex is pointing out that Mercedes brakes are a good idea.... lol I thought G was doing that for Termi's benefit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobSheffield Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 He could have been Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 I'm confused Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamc Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 lol I thought G was doing that for Termi's benefit He could have been I'm confused I have tried searching to no avail. A few years back there was a link to a list of cars and the HP stopping power of their OEM brakes. All I remember was that 4 Pot/2 pot MKIV was very high up the list. If memory serves me correctly, which it rarely does these days, the MKIV had 700bhp of stopping power. F1 brakes headed the list with a huge figure in the 1000's. Has any one got a link to this or a more up to date list. It may help to bring some facts to the debate. Perhaps we need a process, that will give any non standard safety modification that is proposed to be sold to members, will be scrutinised by tech moderators. This this enable a dispassionate description/ analysis to be made. I know some other forums will only allow sale of fabricated parts after moderator approval. This is not a dig anyone, and certainly not this thread in particular, but as a club we surely have some responsibility to ensure non OEM items sold, are safe and will do the job they are claimed to do. Subjective evaluations of any product are never helpful especially where safety is concerned. Sorry for the confusion guys, it was for termis benefit, Alexs quote got included because I was using the back button and I had previously quoted that.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkR Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Anyone done any measuring? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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