Auto v Manual (Please bare with me...)

[Burna]

I do stick up for the auto box as I know it is no slouch and it is definitely not something to laugh at, I am just sick to death of every auto person saying its faster than manual gearboxes or its better than manual, regardless if on track or not.

 

It does change gear faster than the manual, no way of getting around that fact. Neither is better or worse, it's all down to personal needs with driving style and conditions.

 

I have never come up against a like for like supra in an auto faster than mine on both a standard NA and standard TT.

When you account for modifications, then that is a different ball game all together.

 

Well you know I don't bullshit mate, and I have done it many many times, and the auto will pull on a manual car. First time we tried it was DB 2007, Bignum and I were cruising along the motorway after DB had finished and we were checking over the walkie-talkies each others oil pressure, revs, etc... and comparing to each other. He then set his boost level down to the same as mine, he was TT back then don't forget. We then did a pull together, and my auto pulled away on him, not a massive amount, but enough. He then turned his boost back up and pissed past me the next pull lol

[Al Massey]

'MANU' mode enables you to hold the gear as long as you want, you hit the limiter if you don't change up, and when you do change gear it's faster than you can with a manual. So how can you possibly hold the gear longer in a manual past the limiter?!

 

Well I've tested that a few times, against like for like Supra's, the auto out pulls in a straight on a manual car every time.

 

This debate comes up every couple of years, and the outcome is always the same, there is never a deciding outcome lol

 

I love the auto, but that's because it suits me and my driving style. I love the fact that the gears are so long as there's only 3 (4 with overdrive) and that means I don't have to lose any speed changing gear while road racing, by the time I hit third you are starting to get into silly speeds anyway, race over, I win, light my cigar, crack open a beer lol. Same if I want fun on the twisties, put it in MANU made, and keep it held up the rev range to always be on boost, I've been doing this for years now.

 

For me I can't think of anytime I would need a manual, I don't do track days, where I can see from being friends with the Num brothers that a manual is a must for the type of stuff they do, but be honest most of you manual drivers, do you really push it hard around the Ring or UK race circuits? I know you don't.

 

If you know you are going to want more power than say 600bhp, then yes, a manual is the way to go, as you will need the strength of the box, also to combat the lag of a larger turbo the more gears will certainly help, but again that's not for me, and nor is it for most Supra owners on here.

 

if you are adamant that you want a manual for whatever reasons, then please go and talk to owners of manual cars. They are old boxes now, and for awhile now while chatting to members at various event's and meets, I've been asking the same question, "How's your box?" and time again I get the same answers "Synchros not the best on gear ...", "It's going to need a rebuild at some point". Now I can tell by the look in the eye of most of these owners that the cost of a gearbox rebuild, which is not bloody cheap if you actually look into prices, is something they are not going to easily afford to do, if at all. I have a few mates in this club who wouldn't bat an eye at the cost of rebuilding anything, and those cars will stand out value wise in the future, and yes more so because they are manual as that's what's ingrained in peoples minds as that's what you need to have, rightly or wrongly as I mentioned previously.

 

So I guess you've got to ask yourself, do you want a fast GT car with an auto box that still gives you fun within it's limits and is still a good all rounder, or do you want a racecar for track work or a power monster for bragging rights. If it's the latter, make sure you are financially comfortable enough and prepared to go deep deep down the money rabbit hole

 

As I have said, no auto has ever beaten me.

Suprasteveo is one member who can account for that.

Both tested our supras vigorously on the runway at camp and he was always annoyed at how my 5 speed manual out pulled him every time.

 

I never said manuals let you hold it past the limiter, I said we all know holding the gear is faster, otherwise there would not be a manu mode on the autobox, it would be a useless feature.

 

I have been on many track days, not as hard the Num's though, no one does lol

[Al Massey]

It does change gear faster than the manual, no way of getting around that fact. Neither is better or worse, it's all down to personal needs with driving style and conditions.

 

Well you know I don't bullshit mate, and I have done it many many times, and the auto will pull on a manual car. First time we tried it was DB 2007, Bignum and I were cruising along the motorway after DB had finished and we were checking over the walkie-talkies each others oil pressure, revs, etc... and comparing to each other. He then set his boost level down to the same as mine, he was TT back then don't forget. We then did a pull together, and my auto pulled away on him, not a massive amount, but enough. He then turned his boost back up and pissed past me the next pull lol

 

 

Changing gear faster than a manual gearbox and being faster than a manual car are two different things

[Chris Bailey]

These auto vs manual threads always get out of hand!

[Burna]

Changing gear faster than a manual gearbox and being faster than a manual car are two different things

 

I own both, and the auto is faster

[Burna]

These auto vs manual threads always get out of hand!

 

Have you noticed that a lot more people in this thread have swayed towards the autobox being better for an all rounder for the Supra being as it's a GT car?

 

In 2 years time when this subject pops up again, there won't be many manual owners who could afford to fix their boxes and stick around here to debate it :/

Edited November 14, 2017 by Burna (see edit history)

[Al Massey]

Have you noticed that a lot more people in this thread have swayed towards thew autobox being better for an all rounder for the Supra being as it's a GT car?

 

In 2 years time when this subject pops up again, there won't be many manual owners who could afford to fix their boxes and stick around here to debate it :/

 

Not many people bash the NA now either, think we are just growing up or new people can't our banter

 

In 2 years time, there won't be many left on either camp as they cant afford to drive the car with the way Supra tax is going

 

Oh and nothing wrong with my gearbox, no crunches and still wasn't slower

[Burna]

Not many people bash the NA now either, think we are just growing up or new people can't our banter

 

In 2 years time, there won't be many left on either camp as they cant afford to drive the car with the way Supra tax is going

 

Oh and nothing wrong with my gearbox, no crunches and still wasn't slower

 

It's becoming a rich mans game now to keep a Supra on the road in good condition and still drive it hard.

[ShawnPreece]

Manual for the win

[Burna]

Manual for the win

 

Jesus! Your box will last forever without an engine in! lol

[ShawnPreece]

Jesus! Your box will last forever without an engine in! lol

 

I have a spare box too, a little worried about whether it will take it lol

 

I have noticed Jacks transmissions do billet parts for the V160 though so may be worth looking into

 

https://www.jackstransmissions.com/collections/v160-transmission-parts

Edited November 14, 2017 by ShawnPreece (see edit history)

[Burna]

I have a spare box too, a little worried about whether it will take it lol

 

I have noticed Jacks transmissions do billet parts for the V160 though so may be worth looking into

 

https://www.jackstransmissions.com/collections/v160-transmission-parts

 

It's the lack of synchros I'd be worried about.

[ShawnPreece]

It's the lack of synchros I'd be worried about.

 

Life's to short to worry to much about things bud, personally from owning both I really like both box's, I wouldn't want my aero to be a manual but I wouldn't want my white one to be auto. Both great in their own ways

[jimjam92]

Definitely, my idea was initially just to collect a few recent differing opinions from people who have owned both, I know from this that I'd most likely be happy in both now!

I'm definitely not going to track the car so that's no problem, I'd use another car if I wanted to go track; however I might hit the RWYB at Santa Pod now and then so I now know an Auto is just as good for that, and know that I could potentially run Manu Mode the majority of the time if I feel I want more control over the car. You're a knowledgeable bunch!

Hopefully I'll find a local (ish) kind person who wouldn't mind an excuse to take their Supra for a spin one weekend with me as passenger

 

I’d be more than happy to take you out and even let you drive (provided you have adequate insurance) my BPU TT Auto if you are ever around my way. I have a similar situation to you with your Celica in that as well as the Supra I have an MR2 (manual) that I can use for track work or B-road blasting if I want.

 

Also, at the risk of upsetting some TT6 owners, at the recent ‘Suprapod’ event I did not lose to another Supra all day. No doubt they were an eclectic mix of BPU, stock, NA, auto and manual but knew for a fact that one was a 700hp single turbo manual, ended up spinning in at least the first 2 gears, and I beat him to the line (he did fly past me afterwards at probably 140ish haha). I did notice a lot of other people (presumably in TT6’s) experiencing traction issues when launching. I found the auto really easy to stage, just put in drive, hold break with left foot, build revs to about 2000, let off break and mash the accelerator at the same time, keep it straight and let the box do all the work. Never broke traction once and managed 10 runs throughout the day all with very consistent times.

 

[Crossy]

Within all the banter I've definitely learnt a few things

I really appreciate that JimJam, I do have friends over that side of the country that I see now and again, so I may drop you a message sometime if I'm over that way. That is a main persuasion point for me though, if I get an auto, I can keep my ST205 or even return to owning an MR2 MK2, and I do miss my old one.

[jimjam92]

Within all the banter I've definitely learnt a few things

I really appreciate that JimJam, I do have friends over that side of the country that I see now and again, so I may drop you a message sometime if I'm over that way. That is a main persuasion point for me though, if I get an auto, I can keep my ST205 or even return to owning an MR2 MK2, and I do miss my old one.

 

I've had 2 SW20 MR2s now and can't bring myself to get get rid of my current one. The Supra (regardless of auto/manual etc) is a still GT car and in my opinion will never be as fun on a track or twisty B road as something much smaller and lighter. This is one of the reasons I was happy to go for the auto and save myself £6-8k haha!

Edited November 14, 2017 by jimjam92 (see edit history)

[nicky]

On my own opinion I currently drive a single turbo auto, running too much power for the auto box which has now caused my 3rd gearbox to blow in the matter of owning the car under 5 months, the money I'll spend getting the car tuned down to reasonable power and yet another gearbox, I'll only be 2-3k off of affording a manual conversion so it really hasn't been worth buying an auto for me, wish I'd of spent the extra couple of thousand and had no problems!

[Pete]

Its a very personal thing really. The Supra isn't a sports car, its a GT car, a cruiser and an auto really suits it, if you get a VVTI car you get tiptronic buttons but with basically 3 gears its kind of pointless.

 

4 gears, far from pointless, works very nicely thank you very much

[samdale]

Within all the banter I've definitely learnt a few things

I really appreciate that JimJam, I do have friends over that side of the country that I see now and again, so I may drop you a message sometime if I'm over that way. That is a main persuasion point for me though, if I get an auto, I can keep my ST205 or even return to owning an MR2 MK2, and I do miss my old one.

 

I have a MK2 MR2 and a TT6. Try and drive a manual before committing. The V16X box is rather agricultural in feel compared to the MR2.

 

For me I knew I wanted, and could afford a decent manual, so that was decision made. If in your head you're on the fence between the 2 and wouldn't mind an auto, I'd just buy an auto.

 

As said, the manual is not without it's compromises so I'd buy one only if you want to "because manual".

[Hemanhead]

 

Also, at the risk of upsetting some TT6 owners, at the recent ‘Suprapod’ event I did not lose to another Supra all day.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]223706[/ATTACH]

 

Fastest time of the day was 12.2 and it was a manual, so all of the auto's lost to a manual. And that shouldn't happen, but it was discussed why...

 

Fastest IRS 6 speed manual : 7.91 @ 191mph

Fastest IRS auto : 6.52 @ 229mph

(That I am aware of)

 

 

Love that the new guy asks what seems a fairly innocuous question and opens the club's Pandora box

 

Ultimately the manual is more rewarding because you are involved (not cliche, it's a fact) and it makes you work for it. You row the gears fast and downshift for corners right, you did it with your input, your own skill and it does feels good. I have both for what it's worth.

 

Comments about all new cars being auto and not manual, well enthusiast versions of some Porsche and BMW marques are being made as manual for this reason.

Most people buy cars for the pub talk, 0 - 60 times and or Nurburgring lap time. It doesn't matter that they can't do it because someone, somewhere did it and their car is identical.

 

Alot of our club members are not 25 anymore, well most aren't under 40 !

So I can definitely appreciate why alot prefer the easy GT appeal.

The great thing about this thread for the OP is the validation of the Supra's superior platform.

From one car you can make a GT cruiser, nurburgring hot lapper, a 9 second drag car or a daily commuter. The OP just needs to know what he expects from it and purchase accordingly.

Edited November 14, 2017 by Hemanhead (see edit history)

[Crossy]

I had a feeling it may progress this way at some stage I did state please bare with me, and that i knew it had been asked before but this was to the smaller audience who had driven both

I've actually been more inclined to buy one via this thread for the very reason that you're all comfortable in your own opinions to have a laugh, regardless of your personal opinion, and because a lot of you seem to know eachother and the cars so well. It's pushing me this way rather than an import simply because of the build threads for some as well.

I think I'm edging towards an Auto, so that I can run an MR2 MK2 alongside it as a track car if I do sell my ST205, but also because it leaves me more budget to sort potential issues and put my own personal taste into the car, I don't want to be left waiting on income to have to fix or replace parts.

I'm also happy with 450BHP tops through the auto until I want to start upgrading major performance parts, if I decide I want to push that route.

That being said, I've already been offered 2 borderline immaculate TT6s at the top of my budget, and 2 that potentially need a little work at less price. I'm just hoping to see a few sell soon so that I know that the current asking price is a match for the true valuation

[Burna]

Alot of our club members are not 25 anymore, well most aren't under 40 !

 

32

[Al Massey]

32

 

You told me you were 19!!!

[jimjam92]

The V16X box is rather agricultural in feel compared to the MR2.

 

Agreed, you will struggle to find a car with a better shift feel than an MR2, save for maybe a MK1 MX-5.

[rider]

Agreed, you will struggle to find a car with a better shift feel than an MR2, save for maybe a MK1 MX-5.

 

You must be too young to have ever tried a Ford Cortina MkV. Effortless and precise. But I doubt the gearbox would have withstood 1,000bhp.