Auto v Manual (Please bare with me...)

[rider]

If I was driving around London I'd want an automatic. If I was going on a long journey regularly to the South of Europe I'd want an automatic. When my car comes out to play on the local B roads on a sunny day, as it is essentially restricted to doing these days, I want a manual. Everything has its place.

[Swampy442]

Heres my 2p.

 

I liked my 5speed. Found the 6 speed to be alot more clunky (to the point i thought it was broke)

 

Exactly that! I thought same lol

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Daily: auto / tiptronic

 

occasional weekend toy/ sunny weather car: AUTO

 

track car: manual

 

drag racer: auto

 

Quick edit there

[Hitbox Junkie]

If i was looking.again id go auto but i like.my 6speed jist hope it never breaks

[Crossy]

Definitely wanted the manual, think I'd still prefer it, but unsure it's worth circa 8K more to me as my first Supra...

The temptation now is that I can get an Auto Supra and also keep my GT4, or even sell the GT4 and use the rest of the Supra money towards an MR2 MK2 Track car

I'm never going to decide at this rate haha

[Swampy442]

Drive both, then decide

[Scooter]

Definitely wanted the manual, think I'd still prefer it, but unsure it's worth circa 8K more to me as my first Supra...

The temptation now is that I can get an Auto Supra and also keep my GT4, or even sell the GT4 and use the rest of the Supra money towards an MR2 MK2 Track car

I'm never going to decide at this rate haha

 

just out of interest have you ever even been in a Supra as a passenger? What do you like the most driving feel etc about your GT4?

[Crossy]

Never been in one, only around them at shows.

I enjoy the fact it cruises so well, but the power and grip is there when I do fancy playing. I used to drive it harder more often, but I'm definitely becoming more towards the side of the appreciation of a car and how well it's built and looked after, than just how fast it is.

I think I enjoy the feel of the road in that the most though

[Scooter]

Try and make it a priority to experience one, i doubt it'll blow you away given the GT4 but it should still impress I think (I've never been in a GT4!) perhaps with the torque from all revs and the silky smooth straight 6 nature (and the pull still available at motorway speeds? A stock one really is very sanitised/refined/GT like (left one of mine idling for over an hour once without realising), bpu and a shouty exhaust and lower suspension and you can make it a bit of an animal, really quite Jekyll and Hide!

[Crossy]

I'll hope for the chance sometime soon. If nothing comes about chance wise I'll be a little bolder and create a thread asking, or attend a show people are going to!

Ultimately, as stated before, the outcome of what I go for is going to be dictated by what's available at what price, and if I can't stretch my budget to buy a very clean manual, I will happily go for a very clean auto. I think for my budget one will come up at some point, not many are actually selling over the 22-24K mark by what I can see (although they may be technically worth it down to people's or the markets valuation), so it may just be a case of being very patient!

Edited November 12, 2017 by Crossy (see edit history)

[Crossy]

Rider was also kind enough to show me around his Supra while it was up on the ramp today, could eat your dinner off the bottom of his car currently haha, very clean.

Appreciate the amount of info and things to look out for that I picked up from him today, grateful for the info from the rest of you as well, testament to how good the group is here compared to a lot of forums out there.

[Annabella]

Cool glad you've found help on here.

[Burna]

Really starting to get the idea that the only drawback of the auto is the control when driving more enthusiastically then. Definitely something that would take some getting used to no doubt, but in all honesty I rarely flat the GT4 for long as it's become more of a weekend crusier

 

The great plus for me with the auto is the length of the gears, when in manual mode 1st gear on a roll launching out of islands is savage and such a long gear, left many a manual TT and single in the dust as they are busy having to change gear, were as I knock it into second on the redline and keep pulling. That was one of the reasons I developed my paddle shift kit, it gets a bit lively doing that and I wanted both hands on the steering wheel.

[Al Massey]

This is just like asking which hair style is the best.

 

Regardless of any "reasoning" people use, it is all down to personal preference, no if's or but's.

 

I have had several different versions over the years and loved them all for different reasons.

Whether I have been stuck in traffic, town driving or hooning across Europe, I have loved my 5 and 6 speed manuals.

However, I loved driving an auto on the occasions that I did.

 

It is very subjective and all depends on what you really want to feel comfortable in.

 

Best bet is to drive them and see how you feel about them.

[Crossy]

Definitely, my idea was initially just to collect a few recent differing opinions from people who have owned both, I know from this that I'd most likely be happy in both now!

I'm definitely not going to track the car so that's no problem, I'd use another car if I wanted to go track; however I might hit the RWYB at Santa Pod now and then so I now know an Auto is just as good for that, and know that I could potentially run Manu Mode the majority of the time if I feel I want more control over the car. You're a knowledgeable bunch!

Hopefully I'll find a local (ish) kind person who wouldn't mind an excuse to take their Supra for a spin one weekend with me as passenger

[Al Massey]

I would definitely say that the auto box is seriously under rated and usually slated by people who have no idea about them.

 

And if anyone says different, slap them.

[Scooter]

The auto box is under rated as it's assumed to be bad as most auto's from that era were. An auto in general can be a clumsy thing shifting up and down all the time jerky shifts, gutless feel to everything etc etc, but the Supra's torque and the ecu gearbox control is as close to perfect for the time as you could hope for and I think you'll find worse auto's on some brand new cars. The shifts are almost seamless the 4 gears are just about adequate due to the low down torque available, once on the move you are frankly only using 2nd and third, 2nd will pull really well from a 30mph limit, and 3rd will take you north of triple figures.

[Swampy442]

People seem to think manual is the driving nirvana. How many modern fast cars have a lever to wrench about? Hardly any.

 

As I sad its not a sports car, its a cruising car, and as Burna said, you only need 2, thats 50-90mph quite happily, lots of torque to grunt you out of corners :

[jagman]

In most situations A to B , the auto is faster , much of this is down to the torque multiplication of the converter and some down to shift times and power removal during changes ,plus thinking time.

The auto box is running an algorithm,calculating speed ,load , throttle and factoring torque multiplication - all done in a few milliseconds.

The manual box - your brain does this , slower and often wrong - it’s the multitasking that people quote as “involving” as you also use visual input and aural input (engine noise).

The auto won’t be half asleep and drive a few miles in 5th instead of 6 th - lol

[Al Massey]

The auto box is running an algorithm,calculating speed ,load , throttle and factoring torque multiplication - all done in a few milliseconds.

The manual box - your brain does this , slower and often wrong -

 

The autobox is also being controlled by an ecu designed not for speed or fast gear changes but for emissions, longevity, smoothness so on and so on.

 

 

Manual, you can hold the gear longer, which we all now makes it faster otherwise ‘manu mode’ wouldn’t do it.

 

Apart from a drag set up, I’m yet to see an auto actually be faster than a manual.

Edited November 14, 2017 by Al Massey (see edit history)

[Crossy]

Out of interest, is it possible with all these gearbox upgrades nowadays to actually upgrade to a different autobox that will have an emphasis on speed and faster changes?

[Al Massey]

Out of interest, is it possible with all these gearbox upgrades nowadays to actually upgrade to a different autobox that will have an emphasis on speed and faster changes?

 

There are a few mods that can be done to the autobox.

 

I think it was DavidP who made the hybrid gearbox

[j_jza80]

Out of interest, is it possible with all these gearbox upgrades nowadays to actually upgrade to a different autobox that will have an emphasis on speed and faster changes?

 

Yes. The whifbitz dct conversion achieves this, although it is an automated manual box. But the SRD isf 8 speed swap is an auto, and apparently that bkx is capable of faster shifts than the notoriously quick shifting dct box found in the r35 gtr.

[Scooter]

I think Al is sticking up for the manual and no doubt where you can fully utilise a manual it will be a smidge quicker, the autobox is not slow or dim witted though. I don't think emissions came into it at all, smoothness and longevity yes but there is no point in an auto wheel spinning on full throttle gear changes so the smoothing out of the changes is a real world performance gain, it's what makes the auto's very consistent down the drag strip.

[Burna]

Manual, you can hold the gear longer, which we all now makes it faster otherwise ‘many mode’ wouldn’t do it.

 

'MANU' mode enables you to hold the gear as long as you want, you hit the limiter if you don't change up, and when you do change gear it's faster than you can with a manual. So how can you possibly hold the gear longer in a manual past the limiter?!

 

Apart from a drag set up, I’m yet to see an auto actually be faster than a manual.

 

Well I've tested that a few times, against like for like Supra's, the auto out pulls in a straight on a manual car every time.

 

This debate comes up every couple of years, and the outcome is always the same, there is never a deciding outcome lol

 

I love the auto, but that's because it suits me and my driving style. I love the fact that the gears are so long as there's only 3 (4 with overdrive) and that means I don't have to lose any speed changing gear while road racing, by the time I hit third you are starting to get into silly speeds anyway, race over, I win, light my cigar, crack open a beer lol. Same if I want fun on the twisties, put it in MANU made, and keep it held up the rev range to always be on boost, I've been doing this for years now.

 

For me I can't think of anytime I would need a manual, I don't do track days, where I can see from being friends with the Num brothers that a manual is a must for the type of stuff they do, but be honest most of you manual drivers, do you really push it hard around the Ring or UK race circuits? I know you don't.

 

If you know you are going to want more power than say 600bhp, then yes, a manual is the way to go, as you will need the strength of the box, also to combat the lag of a larger turbo the more gears will certainly help, but again that's not for me, and nor is it for most Supra owners on here.

 

if you are adamant that you want a manual for whatever reasons, then please go and talk to owners of manual cars. They are old boxes now, and for awhile now while chatting to members at various event's and meets, I've been asking the same question, "How's your box?" and time again I get the same answers "Synchros not the best on gear ...", "It's going to need a rebuild at some point". Now I can tell by the look in the eye of most of these owners that the cost of a gearbox rebuild, which is not bloody cheap if you actually look into prices, is something they are not going to easily afford to do, if at all. I have a few mates in this club who wouldn't bat an eye at the cost of rebuilding anything, and those cars will stand out value wise in the future, and yes more so because they are manual as that's what's ingrained in peoples minds as that's what you need to have, rightly or wrongly as I mentioned previously.

 

So I guess you've got to ask yourself, do you want a fast GT car with an auto box that still gives you fun within it's limits and is still a good all rounder, or do you want a racecar for track work or a power monster for bragging rights. If it's the latter, make sure you are financially comfortable enough and prepared to go deep deep down the money rabbit hole

Edited November 14, 2017 by Burna (see edit history)

[Al Massey]

I think Al is sticking up for the manual and no doubt where you can fully utilise a manual it will be a smidge quicker, the autobox is not slow or dim witted though. I don't think emissions came into it at all, smoothness and longevity yes but there is no point in an auto wheel spinning on full throttle gear changes so the smoothing out of the changes is a real world performance gain, it's what makes the auto's very consistent down the drag strip.

 

I do stick up for the auto box as I know it is no slouch and it is definitely not something to laugh at, I am just sick to death of every auto person saying its faster than manual gearboxes or its better than manual, regardless if on track or not.

 

I have never come up against a like for like supra in an auto faster than mine on both a standard NA and standard TT.

When you account for modifications, then that is a different ball game all together.