David P Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 T.T. pistons with 3mm gasket = Too low T.T. pistons with T.T. gasket = 8.5:1 T.T. pistons with N/A gasket = ? N/A pistons with 3mm gasket = ? N/A pistons with T.T. gasket = ? N/A pistons with N/A gasket = 10:1 Which one's "Baby Bears bed"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballsdeep Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 I will be NA-T soon!! its taken me forever to gather my parts and do PLENTY of research, but Im slowly getting there.... Only problem is i find myself adding more and more bits on to the list!! Injectors and ecu are the final pieces to the puzzle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d-_-b Posted January 8, 2013 Author Share Posted January 8, 2013 T.T. pistons with 3mm gasket = Too low T.T. pistons with T.T. gasket = 8.5:1 T.T. pistons with N/A gasket = ? N/A pistons with 3mm gasket = ? N/A pistons with T.T. gasket = ? N/A pistons with N/A gasket = 10:1 Which one's "Baby Bears bed"? That would be a great table to populate... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suprakeith Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Have to say just read through this and its a great idea to get all na-t owners in a thread as will be great for advice and tips from the right people, i will be going na-t when get enough money just have to stop buying other parts for car and stay focused on na-t bits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d-_-b Posted January 8, 2013 Author Share Posted January 8, 2013 Have to say just read through this and its a great idea to get all na-t owners in a thread as will be great for advice and tips from the right people, i will be going na-t when get enough money just have to stop buying other parts for car and stay focused on na-t bits Yea that was my aim dude. Even with the couple of short days the thread has been up its brought together some great threads & questions. Hopefully with everyone together this can be built on and a knowledge base made for everyone & if no article exists then a place to target ask other NA-T people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caineoo Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 (edited) Oh and to add to David p's compression ratios... n/a pistons with tt(oem) headgasket. = around 9:2:1 give or take depending on if the head is machined .... tt pistons with n/a(oem) headgasket = around 9:1:1 again give or take dependant on the head. For people wondering oem tt headgasket = 1.3mm and na oem = 0.6mm Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong anyone but pretty sure it's correct Edited January 8, 2013 by Caineoo correcting (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David P Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 (edited) b;3573785']That would be a great table to populate... Give that man a Blue Peter Badge. Oh and to add to David p's compression ratios... n/a pistons with tt(oem) headgasket. = around 9:2:1 give or take depending on if the head is machined .... tt pistons with tt (oem) headgasket = around 9:1:1 again give or take dependant on the head. For people wondering oem tt headgasket = 1.3mm Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong anyone but pretty sure it's correct I've updated one entry, I though stock T.T. was 8.5:1. ? N/A gasket is thinner, can you calc that one? T.T. pistons with 3mm gasket = Too low N/A pistons with 3mm gasket = ? T.T. pistons with T.T. gasket = 8.1:1 T.T. pistons with N/A gasket = 9.03 N/A pistons with T.T. gasket = 9.1:1 N/A pistons with N/A gasket = 10:1 Which one's "Baby Bears bed"? Edited January 8, 2013 by David P (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FOSTA Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 I'm sure the TT Pistons - TT headgasket fitted to a GE engine gives a compression of 8.1.0 or slightly lower as we need to remember the GE head has a recess and the TT head dose not so it gives a 8.5.1 on a TT head set up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FOSTA Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 This is a fantastic read on GTE and GE pistons, CR and the 2 mixed http://www.supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?680149-2JZ-Piston-combustion-chamber-amp-port-differences.PICS&highlight= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caineoo Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Sorry just updated it meant to put Ge headgasket buddy instead of tt. Not found any definites on the tt/tt with ge head compression ratio :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David P Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Updated: T.T. pistons with 3mm gasket = Too low T.T. pistons with T.T. gasket = 8.1:1 T.T. pistons with N/A gasket = ? N/A pistons with 3mm gasket = ? N/A pistons with T.T. gasket = 9.2:1 N/A pistons with N/A gasket = 10:1 Which one's "Baby Bears bed"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fixcz Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 (edited) http://www.bgsoflex.com/cr.html http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/compstaticcalc.html http://www.supraforums.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-574630.html Edited January 8, 2013 by fixcz (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FOSTA Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Updated: T.T. pistons with 3mm gasket = Too low T.T. pistons with T.T. gasket = 8.1:1 T.T. pistons with N/A gasket = 9.03.1 N/A pistons with 3mm gasket = ? N/A pistons with T.T. gasket = 9.2:1 N/A pistons with N/A gasket = 10:1 Which one's "Baby Bears bed"? TT pistons / NA gasket 9.03.1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caineoo Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 N/a pistons with 3mm head gasket would be to low too?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fixcz Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 If you have a stock non-VVTI NA then your stock compression is 10:1. Installing a stock TT HG will bring compression down to a boost friendly 9.2:1 which is ideal for running 17psi on almost any T4 turbo! TT HG and TT pistons will bring you down to 8.5:1 compression which is identical to stock TT compression! Non-VVTI 2JZ-GE blocks are identical to TT blocks with the exception of oil squirters in the TTs and lower compression hiper-pneumatic pistons, (NAs have cast pistons!) I've personally installed a Eristic 1.3mm TT (stock TT) head gasket on a 3.4 stroker running a GT4788 turbo and it held fine under 38 psi of boost and the car went 8.38 @172 without spray! You can get one on ebay for like $40 shipped! Stock NA headgasket - 0.5mm (10:1 compression good for 11-12 psi on 93 octane) Stock TT headgasket - 1.3mm (9.2:1 compression good for 17-18 psi on 93 octane) BoostLogic NA-T headgasket 2.5mm (8.5:1 compression good for 32-34 psi on 116 octane) HKS TT headgaskets - 1.3mm, 1.6mm, 2.0mm, 2.5mm, 3.0mm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caineoo Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 The blocks are the same but the heads are different so surely as fosta said it would make the compression ratio different to the tt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d-_-b Posted January 8, 2013 Author Share Posted January 8, 2013 Stock NA headgasket - 0.5mm (10:1 compression good for 11-12 psi on 93 octane) Stock TT headgasket - 1.3mm (9.2:1 compression good for 17-18 psi on 93 octane) BoostLogic NA-T headgasket 2.5mm (8.5:1 compression good for 32-34 psi on 116 octane) HKS TT headgaskets - 1.3mm, 1.6mm, 2.0mm, 2.5mm, 3.0mm Nice post fixcz I'm guessing these are when using the N/A pistons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David P Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 I think I've filled the gaps in this one. T.T. pistons with T.T. gasket = 8.1:1 T.T. pistons with N/A gasket = 9.0:1 N/A pistons with T.T. gasket = 9.2:1 N/A pistons with N/A gasket = 10:1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FOSTA Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 If you have a stock non-VVTI NA then your stock compression is 10:1. Installing a stock TT HG will bring compression down to a boost friendly 9.2:1 which is ideal for running 17psi on almost any T4 turbo! TT HG and TT pistons will bring you down to 8.5:1 compression which is identical to stock TT compression! Non-VVTI 2JZ-GE blocks are identical to TT blocks with the exception of oil squirters in the TTs and lower compression hiper-pneumatic pistons, (NAs have cast pistons!) I've personally installed a Eristic 1.3mm TT (stock TT) head gasket on a 3.4 stroker running a GT4788 turbo and it held fine under 38 psi of boost and the car went 8.38 @172 without spray! You can get one on ebay for like $40 shipped! Stock NA headgasket - 0.5mm (10:1 compression good for 11-12 psi on 93 octane) Stock TT headgasket - 1.3mm (9.2:1 compression good for 17-18 psi on 93 octane) BoostLogic NA-T headgasket 2.5mm (8.5:1 compression good for 32-34 psi on 116 octane) HKS TT headgaskets - 1.3mm, 1.6mm, 2.0mm, 2.5mm, 3.0mm That's good info mate but can I correct you on somthing. A stock TT is 8.5.1 compression ratio using TT headgasket 1.3mm and TT pistons Note the GE head has 0.30" machined out of it and the GTE head dose not. so that extra 0.30" gives a lower compression on the GE engine useing the TT pistons and TT HG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FOSTA Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 (edited) This question comes up constantly, so here are some pics to clarify. Piston tops. The CC's are correct the valve pocket depths may be a little off. (measured with the tail of verniers) Piston skirts showing cutout for oil squirter,and ring groove differences Internal view with weights GE piston & chamber GTE piston & chamber. Since this pic was taken I have cc'd several other GTE chambers @ 45cc's. GE combustion chamber recess GTE combustion chamber (no recess) GE inlet port face GTE inlet port face GE exhaust port face GTE exhaust port face GTE gasket on GE head GE gasket on GTE head Note the EGR flange is in the same position on both heads GE combustion chamber & gasket GTE combustion chamber & gasket Both pistons sit .004”/.005” below the top of the block. The GE combustion chamber is virtually a GTE chamber with a .030” recess machined at bore diameter. When you add the GE head gasket, .010” compressed, you get about .045” (1.14mm) piston to cylinder head clearance. With the GTE (no recess) the head gasket is .050”compressed and you get about .055” (1.4mm) piston to cylinder head clearance. It is generally accepted that .032”(.8mm) is the minimum safe piston to cyl head clearance. It is also generally accepted that when the piston to cyl head clearance exceeds .060”(1.5mm) the squish effect is severely diminished. So, if you use a GE head gasket and a GTE head, .015”(.37mm) clearance, THE PISTON WILL HIT THE HEAD. If you use a GTE head gasket and a GE head (NA/T) you end up with .085”(2.15mm) clearance and a less than effective squish. The GE HG volume is 1.51cc & the GTE HG volume is 7.55cc a difference of 6.04cc GE combustion chamber (head, gasket, piston) 55.5cc + GTE head gasket extra 6.04cc Gives .085”(2.15mm) squish = 61.54cc = 9.12: 1 GE combustion chamber (head, gasket, piston ) 55.5cc + GTE piston extra 6.7cc Gives std GE squish .045"(1.14mm) = 62.2cc = 9.03: 1 GTE combustion chamber (head, gasket, piston) 66.6cc + GE piston minus 6.7cc Gives std GTE squish .055"(1.4mm) = 59.9cc = 9.34: 1 Edited January 9, 2013 by FOSTA (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d-_-b Posted January 9, 2013 Author Share Posted January 9, 2013 I think I've filled the gaps in this one. T.T. pistons with T.T. gasket = 8.1:1 T.T. pistons with N/A gasket = 9.0:1 N/A pistons with T.T. gasket = 9.2:1 N/A pistons with N/A gasket = 10:1 Still trying to get my head around all this compression stuff but that looks to be heading the right way for a nice summary table Nice one David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FOSTA Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Top and bottom of it is TT pistons and TT headgasket combo have been tried and tested a few times and because of it resulting in a lower compression than a stock TT and with it also affecting squish! It's apparanty too slugish off boost. TT pistons - GE head gasket is good for 500bhp on pump fuel TT head gasket - GE pistons is good for 500bhp on pump fuel So if we are wanting a good responsive 600bhp NA-t we need somthing along the lines of TT pistons and a headgasket inbetween the stock thickness of the GE and TT. I'm thinking around 0.9-1mm of thinkness. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David P Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 (edited) b;3573943']Still trying to get my head around all this compression stuff but that looks to be heading the right way for a nice summary table Nice one David T.T. pistons with N/A head-gasket ticks all the boxes with OE components. Capacity for enough boost to challenge a stock bottom end and gets my vote for "Baby Bears Bed". T.T. pistons with T.T. head-gasket = static compression 8.1:1 ~ squish over-size T.T. pistons with N/A head-gasket = static compression 9.0:1 ~ squish correct N/A pistons with T.T. head-gasket = static compression 9.2:1 ~ squish over-size N/A pistons with N/A head-gasket = static compression 10:1 ~ squish correct Edited January 9, 2013 by David P (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caineoo Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 T.T. pistons with N/A head-gasket ticks all the boxes with OE components. Capacity for enough boost to challenge a stock bottom end and gets my vote for "Baby Bears Bed". T.T. pistons with T.T. head-gasket = static compression 8.1:1 ~ squish over-size T.T. pistons with N/A head-gasket = static compression 9.0:1 ~ squish correct N/A pistons with T.T. head-gasket = static compression 9.2:1 ~ squish over-size N/A pistons with N/A head-gasket = static compression 10:1 ~ squish correct I don't think n/a pistons with t.t headgasket is squish over-size buddy. People have been running it solidly and reliably for ages and you can push more boost than with the standard n/a with n/a compression. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan_Turism0 Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 NA pistons with BL 2.5mm gasket is the win imo, that's what k0r3an used in the states and got some very big numbers from and certainly the route i'd go which is more than enough for most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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