Guess the rwhp on this set up!?

[JamieP]

Something else to throw in the mix, the owners name is Jessica and thats her in the pictures

 

Thanks guys! Yes it´s me in the pictures. Here in Sweden it´s a BIG NO NO to put a girl next to a car in a photo, you are more open minded in the states I can see!

 

[Scott]

Im not saying it is 500 rwhp, I am saying there is no denying that the cars terminal suggests it has a very good output, its terminal is better than many cars over here whos owners claim to have more than 500rwhp.

 

IMO it has more to do with the setup and the driver to what time/terminal you get than it does power. Obviously if taking about a large difference in power it's going to make a bigger difference but I recall you being in a single turbo when TDR was getting better times than you. What was your power then? Do you think TDR was making more power than you? I know I keep going back to Brians times etc but they stack up better in the US vs UK with regards to BPU times/terminals than looking at a setup/driver vs a-n-other setup/driver.

 

Brian isn't a million miles off of the US BPU times/terminals yet they claim to have 100rwhp more than him. He must be one hell of a driver to be pulling that one out the bag.

 

My point is that those times are possible on a fully tuned BPU car properly setup for running the 1/4 mile, by fully tuned BPU I mean approx 400 UK HP at the fly. There is a big difference between Brians car and most cars that turn up at a drag strip regardless of power though. The same, I would say, in this case with this car.

[Scott]

Something else to throw in the mix, the owners name is Jessica and thats her in the pictures

 

That is stunning, on both accounts.

[JamieP]

Im not going to argu the point anymore with you Scott, and certainly not over one car, I will say one more thing though as you keep referring to US times even though this car is in Sweden, Yanks have done 130mph terminals on stock twins without nitrous.

[Scott]

Im not going to argu the point any more with you Scott, and certainly not over one car, I will say one more thing though as you keep refering to US times even though this car is in Sweden, Yanks have done 130mph terminals on stock twins without nitrous.

 

Fair enough. As for the US times the reason being is I'm guessing the car was dynod on a US HP dyno making US HP relevant. It wasn't me that brought the terminals in as the reference of power, I'm only saying how that reference of power is US based and not based on a universal basis of power.

 

130 terminals is impressive, be curious to see that run over here. I'm guessing it must be pushing about 800hp on the stock twins to hit that speed.

[JamieP]

Jessica.

 

http://jezzica.bubbleroom.se/

[Kirk]

[Scott]

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ltl9eeM9WC1qg3b27.gif

 

That's awesome!

[Westy]

http://images.bubbleroom.se/data/blog/jezzica-650-8511a.jpg

http://images.bubbleroom.se/data/user/blog/jezzica-thisisme-333c4.jpg

 

[tony tt]

Bloody hell!! HOT!!!

[DARETT]

Scott I'm not sure why you get so hung over US figures being incorrect.

I've dynod there and here and the powers the same.

My current setup dyno's the same numbers (within 10-20hp) as over there.

 

On stock twins 500whp sounds like it's dream land, BUT the terminal speed says different.

 

For all we know the turbo's are not stock, and it would be a more valid point of cynicism. It could also have had a shot of nitrous....

 

If TDR produced a single run out of x amounts which made a 120+ terminal I would suggest it to be an anomaly, which you will always have.

Apart from TDR's car a True 480-500whp car weighing a stock supra's weight will trap a 120ish terminal.

 

A few years ago 1000hp was just dreamland power over here and we all thought the US cars had to be fake in getting that power, but Jamie's/Pauls/Hodges cars have proven otherwise.

 

You can't fudge terminal speeds, which is why generally they are regarded as the best indicator of power.

Power is what will get you your top speed within a certain parameter (1 mile or 1/4'mile), acceleration/traction etc will just effect how quickly you actually get there.

[scotty71]

Jessica.

 

http://jezzica.bubbleroom.se/

 

Does your wife think she's hot too

 

I retract my post 2 and it can be any hp she says, dang

[Scott]

Scott I'm not sure why you get so hung over US figures being incorrect.

I've dynod there and here and the powers the same.

My current setup dyno's the same numbers (within 10-20hp) as over there.

 

On stock twins 500whp sounds like it's dream land, BUT the terminal speed says different.

 

For all we know the turbo's are not stock, and it would be a more valid point of cynicism. It could also have had a shot of nitrous....

 

If TDR produced a single run out of x amounts which made a 120+ terminal I would suggest it to be an anomaly, which you will always have.

Apart from TDR's car a True 480-500whp car weighing a stock supra's weight will trap a 120ish terminal.

 

A few years ago 1000hp was just dreamland power over here and we all thought the US cars had to be fake in getting that power, but Jamie's/Pauls/Hodges cars have proven otherwise.

 

You can't fudge terminal speeds, which is why generally they are regarded as the best indicator of power.

Power is what will get you your top speed within a certain parameter (1 mile or 1/4'mile), acceleration/traction etc will just effect how quickly you actually get there.

 

 

You made the same power over there as here? With exactly the same spec using exactly the same fuel? What dynos did you do the power runs on, out of curiosity? We have had BPU cars apparently make 500hp on stock turbos but as soon as they even drive past a, what we call, reliable HP dyno the figures tumble down to 400 and under.

 

 

Ok, onto the HP vs terminal. I'm not really sure how else to explain my point to you. The assumption is made that HP in the US is the same as HP in the UK. What you are saying goes against every bit of evidence we have ever seen from vehicles travelling from across the pond. The 1000hp Viper didn't get close to 1000hp, the 500hp Mustang barely made 400hp on a rolling road in the UK. The BPU packages on sale in the US claim the same RWHP as the guys over here claim for FWHP. The figures don't add up, they never have and they never will.

 

TDR was hitting between 115 and 120 on a constant basis. It wasn't a one off, it just so happened that his best time was at one of his lower achieved terminals. The statement made at the start of this thread is that it ran that time on boost. There is no mention of NOS, there is no mention of Hybrid turbos. It has to be assumed that the turbos are euro spec and stock.

 

Lastly, what is your estimation of the power of the BPU supra that trapped a 130mph terminal?

[Josh]

She's hot. The US drag strips are down hill. I would ravage her.

[AndrewOW]

Stunning. And the car's not bad either!

 

Who cares about FWHP and RWHP when you have that to look at!

[DARETT]

Any Supra with a 4780 on a 3.4 at 35-40 psi will make 1150ish whp on race fuel.

 

I dyno'd on a dynapack here and dynojet Over here.

 

I can't comment on other Marques as I only had experience of Supra's here and there. Apart from TDR there is no one who gets close to his terminals at that power (350whp) here or in the US. That would definitely be an anomaly.

 

One thing to take into consideration is that no-one races on pump fuel out there, and I'm not sure there's many people who map BPU cars on race fuel over here. I would never expect 500whp from a bpu car, however what you are suggesting is that the terminal of 122 is expected of a car running 400bhp and weighing 1450kg?

 

If you discount TDR and use the majority of results from the 1/4 mile register what sort of power cars are getting a 120 terminal?....

 

The 130mph car may have been running Nos, racers don't always divulge their information for whatever reason. It would suggest it to be in the 650-700bhp range though.

 

It's always gonna be a point of contention when there's such a big difference, but I don't think the figures should be discounted so readily, especially when the evidence is arguably in their favour.

 

Apart from going on the dyno here there's no real way of verifying power apart from inferring it from trap speeds.

[Scott]

Any Supra with a 4780 on a 3.4 at 35-40 psi will make 1150ish whp on race fuel.

 

I dyno'd on a dynapack here and dynojet Over here.

 

I can't comment on other Marques as I only had experience of Supra's here and there. Apart from TDR there is no one who gets close to his terminals at that power (350whp) here or in the US. That would definitely be an anomaly.

 

One thing to take into consideration is that no-one races on pump fuel out there, and I'm not sure there's many people who map BPU cars on race fuel over here. I would never expect 500whp from a bpu car, however what you are suggesting is that the terminal of 122 is expected of a car running 400bhp and weighing 1450kg?

 

If you discount TDR and use the majority of results from the 1/4 mile register what sort of power cars are getting a 120 terminal?....

 

The 130mph car may have been running Nos, racers don't always divulge their information for whatever reason. It would suggest it to be in the 650-700bhp range though.

 

It's always gonna be a point of contention when there's such a big difference, but I don't think the figures should be discounted so readily, especially when the evidence is arguably in their favour.

 

Apart from going on the dyno here there's no real way of verifying power apart from inferring it from trap speeds.

 

You are now quoting +/- 5psi boost figures and "ish" bhp figures. I thought you nailed it down between the US and UK with your car? Would you at least conceed that different dynos read different HP on the same spec? I'm pretty sure this is widely known throughout the world, you can run your car on one dyno and it will read higher than another? Is it not feasible that in the UK we use dynos that are more akin to heartbreaking? Not saying they are correct, as stated power is relative to the measurement device you use, but is it not possible that a RWHP reading dyno in the US is the same as the FWHP output in the UK? It would appear through Jamies various testing and digging that the TDI Hub dyno is actually closer to a direct measurement to FWHP than it is to the hubs/wheel. This could explain a lot about the differences between the UK readings and US readings.

 

We are going round in circles here with regards to how much power a BPU car actually makes. My point to you is that a 350rwhp car over here is the same as a 450rwhp car in the US. TDRs car in the US on the dyno where the guys get their 450rwhp and 500rwhp figures would see his car making similar power (probably a bit less due to less boost). Over here the cars making 450rwhp and 500rwhp would be lucky to see 400rwhp (and it would need to be top spec to do it). This is my entire point, the terminals will then become relative to the measurement device and not the quoted HP.

 

I'm not an expert by any means. I can only state facts of how much efficient air the turbos can flow at XXPSI. Does race fuel actually make a difference to the amount of power a car makes at a certain pressure with the same timing? Advancing the timing is the only advantage I can see from running race fuel when the boost pressure is the same. Obviously with race fuel you can run more boost more safely but where the argument of BPU is concerned the boost levels will generally be very similar. If you take a BPU supra that is 320hp (this is a flywheel figure by the way, but my bet is that if a stock TT ran on a US dyno it would come back as having around 300-320RWHP) as stock, up the boost by 10psi, cool the charge as much as you can and advance the timing with race fuel gets you double the power? I seriously, seriously, doubt it. The absolute maximum power seen at SRR from a BPU Supra is 430hp (flywheel). This isn't because of the fueling, or the timing. It's because the turbos are gassed and blowing out their ass by this stage. Aint no amount of race fuel that's going to add 150rwhp to that figure at the same boost.

Edited November 30, 2011 by Scott (see edit history)

[mark newman]

I could only get my car to trap at max at 128MPH , and that was dyno at 720bhp

[Scott]

I could only get my car to trap at max at 128MPH , and that was dyno at 720bhp

 

Hang your head in shame, that's slower than a BPU Supra

[Guigsy]

All this terminals backs it up thing is interesting I'm no expert at drag racing or anything at all but it still doesn't seem to add up.

 

My uk car at roughly 400 (fly). Full weight with most of a tank of fuel. Road tyres etc etc etc. Averaged 13.5 quarters at 110mph. Not very spectacular times tbh. Best terminal was 116.

 

My 520fly single struggled to beat that on it's first day at the strip. I thaught it would blitz it. Iv only had one chance to get down the strip tho.

[mark newman]

And in full drag mode , I should have saved my money and stayed with my bpu ,:d

[Scott]

All this terminals backs it up thing is interesting I'm no expert at drag racing or anything at all but it still doesn't seem to add up.

 

My uk car at roughly 400 (fly). Full weight with most of a tank of fuel. Road tyres etc etc etc. Averaged 13.5 quarters at 110mph. Not very spectacular times tbh. Best terminal was 116.

 

My 520fly single struggled to beat that on it's first day at the strip. I thaught it would blitz it. Iv only had one chance to get down the strip tho.

 

 

Everything is relative. There is a MASSIVE difference between what you achieve and what the potential of the car actually is. The potential of a relatively stock (BPU) Supra is proven to be low 11s. If you take the same supra and then add 100-150hp you can potentially get into the 10s. That isn't to say that a 500-550hp WILL do 10s, just that it's feasible with the right setup/driver.

 

That's not to say that you can do it, or do either for that matter. That's just what is deemed as the limit, the maximum, the best possible, etc.

[DARETT]

Ok I see your argument, and it is valid to an extent.

 

All dyno figures are relative, but why don't we use solely UK results.

 

On the drag register the cars running a 120-122 terminal are all cars with what would be 450-500+whp on SRR's dyno.

 

To me this would suggest that you need around those figures to get that terminal. Would that not make sense?

 

I understand HP being just a unit of measurement can possibly vary, however the terminals from the UK would allude to that terminal speed matching that power.

 

Also as for the hub dyno vs whp dyno, KDW dyno'd on both (dynojet and dynapack) with the same results. Apart from that he backed up his power with his 100-150 times being bang on with a 1100hp car.

Also Abbey Motorsport had the Brams engine on an engine dyno prior to arriving to the UK and the hub dyno was about 15% below the flywheel figure.

Also Jamie's terminal is bang on with what people are getting at 1050-1100whp in America....

 

With regards to fuel, it seriously changes the efficiency range of a turbo. In the UK. Subaru tuners have been doing documented back to back tests with just adding a 10% methanol addition and at the same boost(more timing though) it would make around 10% more power. Granted it's a different engine etc, but it's more to prove how a turbo's efficiency shifts completely.

On a TD05 turbo (350hp turbo) at 1.5 bar every degree of timing added would result in 5hp,

[DARETT]

Mark your terminal was about right for your power.

[DARETT]

As Scott says.

 

Power won't alter the acceleration or aid in traction of the car.

 

Power=top speed.

 

The ET will depend on 100 different things, power doesn't make you quicker, just faster

 

 

 

Everything is relative. There is a MASSIVE difference between what you achieve and what the potential of the car actually is. The potential of a relatively stock (BPU) Supra is proven to be low 11s. If you take the same supra and then add 100-150hp you can potentially get into the 10s. That isn't to say that a 500-550hp WILL do 10s, just that it's feasible with the right setup/driver.

 

That's not to say that you can do it, or do either for that matter. That's just what is deemed as the limit, the maximum, the best possible, etc.