Fly Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Guys during one of my start ups I noticed a strange sound coming off what I think is the turbo when I back off the revs. Have a listen to the above video it happens straight after I drop the throttle off. The car hasn't been mapped yet nor set up properly with regards to the boost controller. You will also notice that the turbo isn't spinning at idle but from what I have read this can happen on new turbos Any advice would be appreciated I don't really want to start breaking the turbo down now that I have just finished Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
listy Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Sounds to me like the fins are catching on the housing as it slows down. Is there any shaft play at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich.2211 Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 (edited) Sounds to me like the fins are catching on the housing as it slows down. Is there any shaft play at all? I agree with Listy, it would also explain why the compressor wheel doesn't spin until you give it some revs. Edit - just re-read you first post where you've mentioned sometimes the compressor wheel does not spin at idle on new turbos. I'm unsure but it certainly sounds like something is catching. Edited May 14, 2013 by Rich.2211 (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fly Posted May 14, 2013 Author Share Posted May 14, 2013 thanks guys, im going to take the downpipe off later and have a look inside hopefulyl its nothing i have done when fitting. There is no shaft play at all on the turbo, from the inlet side i have rotated it by hand and i cant see or hear it catching so going to check the turbine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Have you trierd watching the turbo on idle to see how it spins? Any sudden change in rpm would be visible I would of thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fly Posted May 14, 2013 Author Share Posted May 14, 2013 Yea watched the turbo from startup, i did have it spinning for quite some time the other day but yesterday it stopped after about 30s of the engine warming up and takes about 1300-1400 rpm to get it turbing. Whne it does turn you can back off to idle and it will spin for a little while doesnt seem to wander about though or do anything strange. I will break the turbo down and check everything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fly Posted May 15, 2013 Author Share Posted May 15, 2013 Right just to keep you guys in the picture . I took the turbo apart tonight to discover why it wasn't spinning at idle an making the flutter. I found that the turbine (exhaust housing) had some markings which look an identical shape to the blades. There is no shaft play or bent blades in the turbine or even shaft wobble. I also found that I hadn't tightened one of the retaining bolts connecting the internal parts to the exhaust housing so I thought it might have been that. Spun the turbo a few times no sound and rotated fine.nput all back together. Same issue, the turbo spins and then eventually stops however I found once th oil was hot the turbo kept spinning which is a result I suppose. However the blade catching noise is still there when the turbo slows down. I can only put this down to poor tolerances in the turbos manufacturer I suppose I will just have to deal with it until the blades /housing rub enough off each other to stop it. I may still pull the turbo again and attempt to rectify this but I have no idea how. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
listy Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 If the blades are catching, I wouldn't recommend running it in the hope it sorts itself out. Worst case scenario, the blades snap and send shrapnel through your engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fly Posted May 15, 2013 Author Share Posted May 15, 2013 It's not on the intake side it's the exhaust so there only going one way and that's out th exhaust. I'm going to take it apart again and have a play it wouldnt be the bolts holding the mechanical parts into the housing would it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fly Posted May 15, 2013 Author Share Posted May 15, 2013 Or can I sand a milieu of the turbine to stop it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 My first thought is taking material off the turbine will solve the problem. Which I think it will. My second thought, is how much weight distribution is there on those blades. The weight being equal will put the bearing in a state of stress. Having an uneven weight distribution may cause a higher stress bending the shaft. I'm not sure how tight the tolerances are on the bearings, or even how close to the materials tensile limits the turbo's are. I may be over thinking this. But having an un equal weight on a blade that's spinning at 15,000rpm + may cause other problems. Do some research before you considering using un even blades. 'Just' in case. Dnk or Chris Wilson is probably a good person to speak to about this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fly Posted May 16, 2013 Author Share Posted May 16, 2013 (edited) Edit Edited May 16, 2013 by Fly (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gpro Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 just a quick note which happened to me today on the downpipe if you have prewelding screw holes for lambda sensors if you aint using any of them make sure the bolt on that is tight. As i had the exact same noise and problem today it sounded like its coming from the turbo but in the end it was the bolts on the downpipe loose. Only difference is my turbo spins on idle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashbuster Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 why dont you send the turbo back to where you bought it from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellonman Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 why dont you send the turbo back to where you bought it from? agreed that turbo is good for the bin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 (edited) If the turbine wheel has caught the housing, even if it's not catching now it'll be out of balance which will wear the bearings very quickly or worse tear itself apart. Edited May 16, 2013 by Nic (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham1984 Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 Send it back mate, you might as well start on a good note knowing everything is as it should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fly Posted May 16, 2013 Author Share Posted May 16, 2013 Will do guys, thanks if not ile just purchase another t 61 unless I can strip down my k27 and use the turbine off the t61 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fly Posted May 18, 2013 Author Share Posted May 18, 2013 Right guys, still stuck. I ran her up again today after resisting the internals and making sure everything was tight, spins easily. Rev up engine slightly and we get the flutter again. So for some reason I decided to hold the turbo stopped and rev up slightly. Again the flutter happened. So it's not the blades catching? What the hell is it. I am now starting to suspect my oil drain/ pressure / oil type causing the issue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellonman Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 Okay I just managed to watch the vid, sounds like something is blowing to me, is you waste gate not stuck open? This would be why the turbo I not spining, Even if the turbo is not on the manifold correctly , Was there even any signs of the turbo hitting in the housing? Also I dont know how easy it would be to hold a correctly working turbo I know I wouldnt put my finger near mine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashbuster Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 Right just to keep you guys in the picture . I took the turbo apart tonight to discover why it wasn't spinning at idle an making the flutter. I found that the turbine (exhaust housing) had some markings which look an identical shape to the blades. this is what started the talk about blades hitting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fly Posted May 18, 2013 Author Share Posted May 18, 2013 Yea that was my initial thought but The marks were just in the carbon rather than cutting into the turbine, having thought about it if the turbo wasn't spinning the blades would leave marks as the exhaust carbon would sit around the blades rather than be passed out. How would I check if the wastegate is stuck open and why would it be? Even at 2k rpm I can hold the turbo blades still. I will rip it all out again tomorrow and check the wastegate bolts etc. I am starting to loose my rag with this tbh there might be a for sale thread soon, or even worse a BBQ probably not the best time especially after this week at work bearing bad news Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellonman Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 I would not have a clue why your wastegate would be open but I just seems as if it is best way to check would be rev your engine and feel the screemer pipe if you have exhaust gas coming out of it you have found your problem, Also is you manifold good leaking there would stop the turbo spinning If you can spin the turbo in situe with out the engine on easy then it should spin with the exhaust gas, IF preasure is being kept Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh42 Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 I would not have a clue why your wastegate would be open but I just seems as if it is best way to check would be rev your engine and feel the screemer pipe if you have exhaust gas coming out of it you have found your problem, Also is you manifold good leaking there would stop the turbo spinning If you can spin the turbo in situe with out the engine on easy then it should spin with the exhaust gas, IF preasure is being kept Great advice right there^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjy Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 It sounds like it's blowing it's b*#$€+ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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