grahamc Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Yeah, its expensive for sure and not worth doing unless you can afford to do it properly. IMO hybrids just aren't worth the expense if your stock turbo's are working fine, its only really worthwhile if you're needing to change turbo's due to a fault with the stockers. They only get a few extra HP at the very top end, unless the injectors and cams are changed there's going to be little difference. Plus, they'll spool slower (similar to UK spec) so will lose some lower/mid range torque. I've only dirven one hybrid powered car but wasn't impressed, my one on the stockers felt quicker. The hybrids are based on UKs (£300 second hand), my car is jspec so may be more worthwhile. I am changing the fuel setup and I am going for 264 cams... Oh well, will have to take you for a drive once built and run-in and see what you think of my attempt at things!! You up for that??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamc Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Are you sure its ftlb and not NM? ive never seen dan quote in ftlb before.... and ive been there many times;) Been? Dont you mean live there?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayssupra Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 It was in NM but i had no idea what that was so dan converted it for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 It was in NM but i had no idea what that was so dan converted it for me Ahh, thats good:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Plus, they'll spool slower (similar to UK spec) so will lose some lower/mid range torque. Is there any proof in this? I think it must only be true on bog standard car, and i bet the difference isnt that noticable? is there dyno graphs or something? I know when i took my cat off on my uk spec the turbo spooling was instantaneous (it was quick with them on too), and infact, mine was noticably quicker than the jap spec supra i drove, running pretty much the same mods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Is there any proof in this? I think it must only be true on bog standard car, and i bet the difference isnt that noticable? is there dyno graphs or something? I know when i took my cat off on my uk spec the turbo spooling was instantaneous (it was quick with them on too), and infact, mine was noticably quicker than the jap spec supra i drove, running pretty much the same mods. Yeah, its immediately noticable, both stock and BPU. I've driven 7-8 UK specs and 20+ jap specs and always the jap specs are more responsive and have better mid range. The UK's have a better top end (5.5k+) where the Jspecs tend to die off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supra-Dupra Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Wouldnt it be ok to run it on the stock clutch, and only change it if it cant handle it, or goes. Gives you time to recoupe the funds, and isnt the rps street max only £300 (ish). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Yeah, its immediately noticable, both stock and BPU. I've driven 7-8 UK specs and 20+ jap specs and always the jap specs are more responsive and have better mid range. The UK's have a better top end (5.5k+) where the Jspecs tend to die off. Maybe ive got a special uk spec then, or the jap spec was knackered The top end on the uk's is probably down to the slightly harsher cam setup they run i imagine? Wouldnt it be ok to run it on the stock clutch, and only change it if it cant handle it, or goes. Gives you time to recoupe the funds, and isnt the rps street max only £300 (ish). Yeah, aslong as your not fond of drag starts im going to be running my stock clutch for a few extra months, it'll be ok with my single for a lil bit, but will no doubt give up eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvershark44 Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 So may be everyone who was on the rolling road day in September (who surprisingly appeared to get the figures they anticipated) was lied to/ over estimated?? Any way I am pleased with the results and trust the company whole heartedly so that is the only thing that matters! Also I love the car, and am really happy that it had two previous owners that looked after it well. I would just like to say that western performance are a great tuning company. I was most impressed when I went there last september. On the day there was a variety of cars from CRX's to Supras. Every supra made what it should have done. My supra (stock tt) made just over 300 bhp. But it had an absolutely rotten smic. So made sense it only got that. Burna on here ran his stock uk spec, and got something like 305 bhp. So no inflated figures there. Early in the day there was a guy with a CRX mk 2, and he got about 160 bhp. Exactly what it should have made. Dragon Lady, ran her supra, and it was clearly not stock. At the time we all talked about how it must be running hybrids or something to make that power. Even weston said that this must be the case. It is more than a simple BPU. I think Pete was there on this day too from memory, And there was a guy who had just had his engine rebuilt on his N/A and guess what he got..............220bhp....... I cant see why any of these figures would have been wrong. All of them were what we thought they would be. Dragon Ladys sup isnt a standard BPU though, there is more going on there than that. Definitely must be running hybrids in my opinion. I would be more than happy to go there again for another dyno session. Anyone up for that around easter time? As I have a new smic now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 No one is disputing the results of other cars from this company. Dragon Ladys sup isnt a standard BPU though, there is more going on there than that. Definitely must be running hybrids in my opinion. I expect you have misunderstood half the posts in this thread. It matters not if it has hybrids or not, the limiting factor is injectors. Plus you have zero evidence to suggest it has hybrids. I have NEVER, ever know a Japanese car to come over with hybrid turbo's. I've never seen so much mis-information posted in a single thread as this I'm actually embarrassed by the responses of some members who really should have a better clue by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbeh Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Burna on here ran his stock uk spec, and got something like 305 bhp. So no inflated figures there. Just deflated ones. What was his RWHP figure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvershark44 Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 No one is disputing the results of other cars from this company. I expect you have misunderstood half the posts in this thread. It matters not if it has hybrids or not, the limiting factor is injectors. Plus you have zero evidence to suggest it has hybrids. I have NEVER, ever know a Japanese car to come over with hybrid turbo's. I've never seen so much mis-information posted in a single thread as this lol ok fair enough. Im the first to raise my hand and say I know pretty much fook all about tuning supra's in comparison to a lot of you guys. I was just trying to point out that most of the cars got pretty much what we thought they would get, and the guys there were really helpful and seemed really clued up on what they were doing. Would be interesting to get the car dyno'd somewhere else and compare results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvershark44 Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Just deflated ones. What was his RWHP figure? That was at the fly. He left his air con on though from memory, and his car isnt brand new either, like any of ours. Just dug out my dyno graphs, I got 248.3 HP at the wheels and 301.4 HP at the fly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbeh Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Maybe he had put in Sainsburys petrol again. Mine wasnt brand new when I had it dynod, it still got what it should have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Either way Bobbeh, I think this underlines why members should get power runs done at an independent RR. I'd never trust a RR owned or affiliated with the tuner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 well its obviously safe to say 'if' it has that hp, then it has larger injectors too, it makes sense, if your going to put hybrids on a jspec your gonna have to do the injectors too, wouldnt be any point in the hybrids otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvershark44 Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Maybe he had put in Sainsburys petrol again. Mine wasnt brand new when I had it dynod, it still got what it should have. From memory i cant remember the reason why he didnt make the full bhp amount. Maybe it was sainburys petrol, and the fact that he left the air con on. It was quite a warm day from memory though. I will be booking another rolling road session there sometime soon, when I have my new intercooler fitted. As i know it will be a different day etc, but I want to see if it makes much difference at all and i might as well use the same dyno. I can only attribute this as being the only factor thats holding me back from the full 320 bhp. The rest of the car is pretty much sound now and has been fully serviced. CW said its one of the cleanest standard cars he seen, so that good to know i guess. So it should be interesting to see what it makes next time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvershark44 Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Either way Bobbeh, I think this underlines why members should get power runs done at an independent RR. I'd never trust a RR owned or affiliated with the tuner. Sorry, just read your post. Do you mean a place that doesnt offer tuning, just RR sessions? Or have I got this wrong? At the end of the day, I would rather know the real bhp output of my car, whether it was up or down on what it should be. I didnt have my car dyno'd to show off. I had it done to get a good idea if it was running as it should be. One thing I will say is, though western were really nice, they did suggest that my car was over fueling/ running rich and that they could sort out my AFR for me if i wanted, at extra cost obviously. And i think they said the same thing to most people there with supras. Obviously, supras do run rich from standard, however i believe that once the car is BPU this is usually corrected? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 One thing I will say is, though western were really nice, they did suggest that my car was over fueling/ running rich and that they could sort out my AFR for me if i wanted, at extra cost obviously. And i think they said the same thing to most people there with supras. Obviously, supras do run rich from standard, however i believe that once the car is BPU this is usually corrected? Lol, usual story there!! Take it to someplace independant (who have no financial gain in giving lower/higher quotes). Get it tuned then return to the same place. If you're a technical numpty its the only way to ensure you're not being had. SRR have a proven track record in this area and have delivered consistent result for a massive amount of cars here. Mine showed only 1 bhp difference between 2 years and near identical torque plots (no mods made betwen obviously) Anyway, at 1.2 bar the jspec will be at 100 duty cycle and afr's will be lean. There's no further tuning that can be done until the injectors are changed to larger ones. That is the Jspecs flaw, no exceptions, nada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvershark44 Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Ok cool, cheers for the advice Homer. As i said, im not after inflated figures, i just want to know that my car is running as it should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonlady Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 First of all this is not the dragon speaking now, it's the one who pinches the car off her and does not let her drive it. Ian Just been reading the thread and am shocked at the attitude that you seem to have Homer, first of all, sit down and take a chill pill. Why do you seem to bad mouth things that are posted and have such a negative attitude to what people say. First of all we went on the rolling road day in Sept just to find out what the car was producing figure wise as Matt didn't know when we bought the car. We were told it was running rich and he showed us the figures for AFR on the computer. They then said that they could sort it for us and they did last week... hence the new figures. Now I don't know much about supra engines and can only go on what paperwork we received and what was said when we bought the car. So instead of slagging my wife off and saying things like "just handing over cash and beleive anything","wasting my time" and "you carry on thinking ". Why not say "well done, good figures, but......you might want to check blah,blah,blar" Which leads me on to say thanks to RobSheffield, Imi and Michel Lane for the advice. I will look into the turbos and injectors when I find out how and post up the findings, I'm curious to know myself. One last thing. Don't slag off a company untill you know more about them, very unproffesional and not clever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burna Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Maybe he had put in Sainsburys petrol again. Mine wasnt brand new when I had it dynod, it still got what it should have. Optimax as always. Was surprised it didn't reach more though, air con was on (yeah I'm muppet) which some people mentioned could have messed the result up, but I have since been told that the air con disengages at WOT anyway so it doesn't make a difference if on or not The figures did show it was heavily over fuelling on WOT but I'm far from an expert to judge how much effect that would have. CW has been out in my car before and never mentioned anything he has noticed, but all I know is how it feels on the road and how it compares to other Supra's. I've been up against other members cars during convoys and don't notice any difference in the power mine is producing. I find mine pulls on most cars and BPU cars will only pull on me a little, the only exception I have found is S7EVE's but after looking at his graphs from the rolling road day a more technical member of Japworcs noted that his and Dragonladys were both running hybrids due to the power curve of the graphs Bignums car (UK manual BPU CW SMIC) didn't reach as much as either of us thought with 389 at the fly, but as others who have seen and felt the car on track days knows it goes well So we were both a little confused at that. The rolling road day was just a bit of fun for me but as you say Bobbeh I thought it would have produced more Also after what you've said Homer you've tweaked my interest now in trying another place, going to look into popping down to Surrey Rolling Road to see what I get down there before I decat it, air con off this time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonlady Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 I find mine pulls on most cars and BPU cars will only pull on me a little, the only exception I have found is S7EVE's but after looking at his graphs from the rolling road day a more technical member of Japworcs noted that his and Dragonladys were both running hybrids due to the power curve of the graphs That's interesting to hear. Out of intrest how can he tell that they are hybrids? Does anybody on the forum know how to read these graphs because the print out shows a much smoother power curve now the work has been completed. Will post up scan and engine photos later when wife finishes work.(not a computer buff, but buffoon!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbeh Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Burna, it could have been the ambient temps, I thought the car was tested with all systems on (like air con etc) to produce 320+ bhp (SAE). No worries, best to try other places for comparisons etc, plus its not exactly far out either. At least it wasnt 280bhp like some on here With regards to Si, was he only running at 1.1 bar again or did he up the boost? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Anyway, at 1.2 bar the jspec will be at 100 duty cycle and afr's will be lean. There's no further tuning that can be done until the injectors are changed to larger ones. That is the Jspecs flaw, no exceptions, nada. Not true. A wee tweak of the base pressure on the FPR, and hey presto, more fuel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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