Converted cars?

[ben_harmer32]

I was just wandering what other peoples thoughts were on cars that have been converted.

 

Mine for example, came out the Toyota Factory as an NA manual. It states this on the VIN plate.

 

At some point a previous owner got there hands on a donar TT auto. Parts were swapped onto my car to make it a TT auto. This included the engine, gearbox, drive shafts, diff etc. Only thing that wasn’t swapped was the traction control system which lets face it is fairly pants anyway! All this was done several years ago.

 

Since then I have bought the car and done many more changes. I took it to BPU and have had SRD hybrid turbos fitted. Whilst having this done the car has been checked over and I know it is in very good health.

 

So now back to my original question, essentially engine and running gear wise my car is as it would have been if it came out the factory as a TT auto.

 

It is rare these days to see a completely factory standard car. Most of us have changed wheels, suspension, BPU, single turbos etc. Isn't an engine swap just another modification as such?

 

Just because the VIN plate states NA manual should my car be worth less than a genuine TT auto running similar modifications because of this? Or be worth the same as a lesser spec'd car?

 

Does this mean that cars that have had full colour changes or other major work completed should be worth less as well? Technically they are no longer as per factory spec?

 

Let me know your thoughts

[Ric]

a conversion will always be worth less.

 

Changing a colour means less to me than something with an engine conversion. Others may think similar or not.

[ben_harmer32]

a conversion will always be worth less.

 

Changing a colour means less to me than something with an engine conversion. Others may think similar or not.

 

Would you care to elaborate as to why you think that please?

 

I see people doing NA-t conversions, would these be worth less than an NA? How is a TT engine swap any different?

[Ric]

Would you care to elaborate as to why you think that please?

 

I see people doing NA-t conversions, would these be worth less than an NA? How is a TT engine swap any different?

 

A NA-T conversion would still keep it an original NA.

 

A conversion with a full swap does not make it command the same price as an original. All IMO of course, others might think differently.

 

A conversion brings up loads of questions, how old is the engine? milage no longer matches the rest of the car, the vin no longer matches the car, what about the V5? is it changed? if not will it invalidate insurance? Insurance companies also might be funny with conversions, how good was the work? It just brings up loads of questions and issues which make it not as desirable as a genuine car.

[MrGRT]

The market dictates the price regardless of what you and I think of it. The fact is that it will be worth less than an original TT, there will be many reasons but I suspect one is that you would never be able to guarantee that the skills of whoever converted the car were up to par with those of toyota, nor that all the parts needed to relocate an original TT were actually swapped.

A NA-T is worth more than a NA, I have seen prices of na-t 2k or 3k more than NAs

 

 

[tayr]

I personally would not want a swapped car. I would say swapped car is worth less than it's counterpart.

 

I would also not buy a resprayed car (if different colour) as there is 9/10 issues with it. I.e. different mismatching colours

[Style]

I'm essentially running a factory facelift, 6 speed, small case LSD car that is still on it's original engine which is now fully built and single'd with supporting modifications. For all intents and purposes, it's basically a facelift 6spd single that has also had extensive work done underneath, so you'd think it would carry a pretty strong price tag in todays market. Yet it probably commands 10k less than a genuine TT6 due to 1 letter missing on the VIN plate. Whilst it annoys me that I'm missing out on the price difference, I have to remember that I paid NA money for the car in the first place.

 

You could argue that the VIN plate should apply mainly to stock/consourse examples and that once you pass a certain point in mods, the VIN should become less relevant. Kind of like the resetting of the odometer debate. It's a very complex debate imo with a lot of case by case scenarios

[rider]

A converted car is and always will be worth less than an equivalent spec/condition factory car. The reason is ovbvious, if you can buy a factory car for the same price why would you conceivably go for the converted car? You see this reflected in the market for classic cars everywhere. There are rusted shells with the right VIN plate that sell for more than the complete and ruuning entry versions of the same model.

 

All is not lost though, there was a thread about DIY VIN plates earlier this year where someone had changed a VIN plate to reflect the cars new colour. From there, its only a tiny step onto amending trim and running gear as well. It probably isn't even illegal to do changes to a VIN plate that don't alter the identity of the car. Its a ploy that is endemic in classic mini and ford cars purely as a means to alter the cars value to what the spec commands, if it were a genuine and usually rare varient of a factory car. But somehow becoming less rare by the day. There are so many mk 1 mini coopers and escort mexico's that have been discovered in the last 10 years, its simply incredible. Modyfing a VIN plate is illegal in the USA so any VIN modified car owners really should not ship their cars over there or the new owners could end up with a scrapped chunk of crushed metal.

[Scooter]

It didn't bother you and/or you got it for a reduced price?

 

It's just another thing to possibly unnerve a buyer or give them a reason to chip at the price and now prices are high people are more circumspect? If it's an issue for them they know it'll be an issue for a future buyer if they sell.

[James]

I have a pre-facelift SZ-R NA-TT 5 speed that I need to do some work to. It'll never yield the same value as a factory TT counterpart of equivalent spec in my opinion.

 

My main evaluation is actually going to be whether the outlay for a 6 speed conversion will yield sufficient return down the line or not.

[T2 MSW]

 

My main evaluation is actually going to be whether the outlay for a 6 speed conversion will yield sufficient return down the line or not.

 

Only as a gearbox conversion to someone else in parts IMO

 

May even make money on it even at the ridiculous prices they are now

[James]

Only as a gearbox conversion to someone else in parts IMO

 

May even make money on it even at the ridiculous prices they are now

 

It is a tough cookie for me at the moment as I am very much stuck in 2013ish

 

I am partially thinking from the perspective of volume of interested parties - would a (engine converted, obviously) TT5 for £15k have more/less potential buyers than a converted TT6 (engine and box) at £21k say. From the angle of future-proofing for others, this particular example may be more lucrative as the 5 speed is of course far more likely to 'let go', causing additional outlay regardless.

 

Food for thought certainly.

[Supra-love]

For me, I like to have a car with all its original chassis parts. Example - gearbox, engine numbers all matching the chassis, I don’t like swapped shells and stuff. For me they are worth nothing as I wouldn’t buy one swapped about. It will always lower price, you can’t have a na auto, converted to a v160 and gte and expect original TT6 money in my opinion

 

Wheels and all that don’t matter, it’s about the engine matching the gearbox and chassis it rolled out the factory with

Edited June 10, 2020 by Supra-love (see edit history)

[mc92]

I'm in the process of "converting" my NA so personally I don't care about matching numbers. I think in the collector market stuff like that is important, but to the average person who just wants a nice car I bet if your car and a factory TT auto were on sale and there was a £500 difference in price they'd pick yours 9 times out of 10.

[keron]

ive converted over 120 supras from na - tt / auto to manual etc over the years.... I would say that converted cars would be worth less to the majority as a lot of questions being asked when I sell a supra is that if its been converted etc so must be an issue for most.

 

Also in other countries they cant register supras that have been converted from the specs on the vin plate.....

 

Me personally.... wouldn't bother me unless it was one to store away which had low miles etc etc...however most people do ask now if its been converted.....

[Andrew K]

Seen this done in the states when engines get swapped in older desirable cars, the owner keeps the original engine & gearbox etc for when and if they ever sell it on.

Mines an N/A Auto from factory converted to a 6 speed single 2JZ-GTE and all work was done by a very well know company, I have also kept everything like I mentioned above so don’t know if that would make any difference if I ever sold it on?

[ben_harmer32]

A lot of good replies on here, thank you all for your input.

 

It seems fairly unanimous that converted cars are worth less. Which is good to know.

 

So if you had two TT auto cars, identical spec, mileage and condition but one had been converted (for many years) and one was factory how much less do you think it would worth?

[MrGRT]

It will depend on the price. So let's say the factory tt is advertised at 25k, the converted then 21k. If the factory car was 17k then the converted 14k. IMHO.

 

 

[BoostJunky86]

A converted car is and always will be worth less than an equivalent spec/condition factory car. The reason is ovbvious, if you can buy a factory car for the same price why would you conceivably go for the converted car? You see this reflected in the market for classic cars everywhere. There are rusted shells with the right VIN plate that sell for more than the complete and ruuning entry versions of the same model.

 

All is not lost though, there was a thread about DIY VIN plates earlier this year where someone had changed a VIN plate to reflect the cars new colour. From there, its only a tiny step onto amending trim and running gear as well. It probably isn't even illegal to do changes to a VIN plate that don't alter the identity of the car. Its a ploy that is endemic in classic mini and ford cars purely as a means to alter the cars value to what the spec commands, if it were a genuine and usually rare varient of a factory car. But somehow becoming less rare by the day. There are so many mk 1 mini coopers and escort mexico's that have been discovered in the last 10 years, its simply incredible. Modyfing a VIN plate is illegal in the USA so any VIN modified car owners really should not ship their cars over there or the new owners could end up with a scrapped chunk of crushed metal.

 

That was my comment I think your referring to

 

My chains colour it wasn’t anything to do with cars colour. I meant the actual VIN plate colour. It’s was polished silver and faded so I had a set made it satin black to match the car but all exactly as they were most of the guys I know

On the escort cosworth forum that had remade them none were done to ‘increase the Value’ of the car. It was aesthetics that’s all.

 

But then different car? You couldn’t buy an NA or an Auto

The only real difference was Lux pac, A/C etc. But that made very little difference to value, the only big value was limited models like a Monte or similar. But that’s reflected by VIN no so if someone changed that then I think they’d get caught out fairly quick as it was quite small community

[griffsplace]

Thinking of converting mine into a "ute" .