Martin McGuinness

[Dnk]

Sinn Féin's Martin McGuinness, former deputy first minister of Northern Ireland, dies aged 66

 

RIP or RIH ?

[el_bandido]

Convicted terrorist, but I don't think anyone's death should be celebrated. Condolences to his family, but I won't miss him.

[j_jza80]

He undoubtedly did some terrible things, but he was also a key to the peace settlement, which has resulted in a long period of relative stability and lasting peace.

 

If nothing else, an example that everyone has the ability to change and better themselves.

[Chris Wilson]

I am more saddened by the death of Rockefeller at 101, who, despite the moanings of the liberal elite about excessive wealth, with his predecessors, gave more to charity than any other person or institution in history, and advanced medical science further with their funding. I am pleased to see Dame Vera Lynn celebrate her 100th birthday too, as her album soars up the charts

[Al Massey]

but he was also a key to the peace settlement, which has resulted in a long period of relative stability and lasting peace.

 

If nothing else, an example that everyone has the ability to change and better themselves.

 

This, by making sure we can't prosecute any IRA terrorist for their acts or killings, including if they tell us where the bodies are.

 

Yet are happy to go after veteran pensioners who were stationed in NI.

 

Very peaceful :/

[ellis]

I hope he rots in hell. He was, and always will be, a murderer, a cold-hearted killer. And you want us to 'thank' him for his part in the peace process?! Get real. If this had been any other terrorist who had tried to 'make good', Bin Laden for example, then I assume you'd think quite differently. I can only hope his end was painful and drawn out. Good riddance.

[j_jza80]

Definitely not a perfect solution, but we haven't got bombs going off any more. These kind of settlements are always an unpleasant compromise, and the way that British veterans are vilified while known terrorists walk free is abhorrent.

[nolizma]

I am more saddened by the death of Rockefeller at 101..

 

[Frank Bullitt]

I am more saddened by the death of Rockefeller at 101

 

As always Chris, very diplomatic

 

Regarding the death of that POS, my he rot in hell tormented by the souls of all the IRA’s victims that suffered at his hands. I cannot believe the news coverage this is getting. All the pathetic nonsensical dribbling tributes about how he helped move away from the violence towards peace, get real. People are piling the praise on but it isn't valid, he didn't come forward with the truth and was extremely selective with what he told. With him the truth has died and that is the most upsetting thing about this whole affair.

 

He had the nerve to say the Irish Times did not respecting his privacy in relation to his health after the newspaper ran an article detailing his illness. The Sinn Féin terrorist/coward followed this up by saying he was “very disappointed” that the article was published, saying he believes it will distress his family.

 

All I can say is that it's just a shame no one got to him first.

[ellis]

As always Chris, very diplomatic

 

Regarding the death of that POS, my he rot in hell tormented by the souls of all the IRA’s victims that suffered at his hands. I cannot believe the news coverage this is getting. All the pathetic nonsensical dribbling tributes about how he helped move away from the violence towards peace, get real. People are piling the praise on but it isn't valid, he didn't come forward with the truth and was extremely selective with what he told. With him the truth has died and that is the most upsetting thing about this whole affair.

 

He had the nerve to say the Irish Times did not respecting his privacy in relation to his health after the newspaper ran an article detailing his illness. The Sinn Féin terrorist/coward followed this up by saying he was “very disappointed” that the article was published, saying he believes it will distress his family.

 

All I can say is that it's just a shame no one got to him first.

 

I see we have the same thoughts!

[Frank Bullitt]

I see we have the same thoughts!

 

Fools seldom differ

[kevin smith]

Thank god he's gone, i feel sorry for all the people who died in the bombings and the people he shot. I was on duty at the bishop gate bombing, only one person died but it could have been a lot more if it wasn't for security service's. And that's something i will never forget. Good riddance.

[Jellybean]

No love lost for the death of Martin McGuinness, he is no loss to society but he was pinnacle figure in the good Friday agreement ; based on some opinion's here , history books would suggest the UK involvement in the NI was all roses, some despicable atrocities on both sides of the fence during this vile period

 

I find it a cop-out the aggressor occupying another country deems somebody who is fighting for their sovereign land a Terrorist, a word thrown around by politicians to justify their hidden agenda, and to inject fear in their constituency for public favor of their actions , fuel media propaganda

[Tyson]

No love lost for the death of Martin McGuinness, he is no loss to society but he was pinnacle figure in the good Friday agreement ; based on some opinion's here , history books would suggest the UK involvement in the NI was all roses, some despicable atrocities on both sides of the fence during this vile period

 

I find it a cop-out the aggressor occupying another country deems somebody who is fighting for their sovereign land a Terrorist, a word thrown around by politicians to justify their hidden agenda, and to inject fear in their constituency for public favor of their actions , fuel media propaganda

 

I went to killmainham gaol and some of the atrocities the British committed are just as shocking. One mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist as they say.

 

He was a horrible man who did terrible things and killed many innocent people but he was born out of the British oppression of the Irish people. We should have given the country it's independence before all the bloodshed and so many lives could have been spared.

[pedrosixfour]

Four million Irish killed or displaced since 1850.

 

Think about it.

[JasonR24]

Glad him and Rockefeller are gone. Honestly two people who are pure evil

[marbleapple]

We should have given the country it's independence before all the bloodshed and so many lives could have been spared.

 

I find that above statement a little hard to accept. What about those who didn't want independence?

 

It was a mess which I'm glad is now moving in the right direction.

 

Most disputes are over who owns what land. Go back far enough and someone will claim to own it before someone else.

[Chris Wilson]

Glad him and Rockefeller are gone. Honestly two people who are pure evil

 

The Rockefellers were some of the greatest philanthropists the world has ever known, the amount of cash given to charities is staggering, apart from good deeds, everything from medical science to poor individuals benefited under them, they even rank at the top of the Philanthropy Hall of Fame.

 

http://www.philanthropyroundtable.org/topic/excellence_in_philanthropy/the_rockefeller_legacy

[Al Massey]

British oppression?

Independence?

 

So nothing to do with their own religious divide, or the fact that Northern Ireland wanted to be part of the UK.

 

There was a lot going on.

 

And they were not in any way shape or form freedom fighters.

They were terrorists.

 

And I'll tell you where my opinion from them comes from.

 

And that's as a child, living on an army camp in Germany, watching my dad, and everyone else's dad's check their cars first thing in the morning, and actually being in the immediate vicinity and watching my friends dad get blown up whilst starting his car.

 

Yeah freedom fighters

[jim]

I try not to get pulled into political debates, the man was commander in the IRA who were responsible for many shocking atrocities, but the simple fact from my personal perspective is that my kids have thankfully grown up in a country much different than the one I grew up in, and that most certainly would not have happened were it not for his contribution to the peace process here and more specifically his negotiations within the IRA to bring about the ceasefire first and subsequently the decommissioning of their weapons.

 

It's a hugely complex situation and opinions will be polarised, my Facebook feed today was interesting to say the least lol

[pedrosixfour]

What about those who didn't want independence?

 

Easy.

 

GTFO

 

Same option the Irish were given during the occupation of our land.

 

Our Land.

 

Then, when we didn't leave, a 5 year famine was engineered out of a single crop's failure to cull the masses, all while native beef & wheat left our shores by the ship-load, effectively halving the population.

 

The troubles didn't start in the 1960's. The period of unrest at that time and for the next two decades was given the title "The Troubles".

 

The Bloody Sunday of that decade wasn't even the first bloody Sunday we were treated to by British forces.

 

What do you call a group of men shooting indiscriminately into a crowd of people watching a football match in 1920, killing fourteen and wounding over sixty?

 

Same thing you'd call them today.

 

Now, that's a very simple and biased answer, to a question that cannot be answered.

 

@ Al, where do you think the religious divide comes from and what would you have done as a young second class citizen in 1960s Derry?

 

**Certain professions are not open to you due to your religion and partition has economically crippled the city, cutting it off from it's natural hinterland despite being only 3 miles from the border. Entering politics is not really possible either, you can't vote because you don't have a house and you can't get a house because you're a Taig (catholic). Even if you could vote the electoral boundaries in your predominantly nationalist city are rigged in such a way that a unionist minority holds control. You can't express your chosen identity as an Irish person. You cannot display the flag of your nation - it is against the law. You see what is happening with the African-Americans in the USA and seek civil rights, but on the first attempt in 1969 you are beaten off the road at Burntollet by a mob of unionists including members of the B-Specials, an irregular force comprised of only one side of the community. And as your civil rights movement gathers force, 13 of your unarmed friends and neighbours are shot dead in the street by an elite British Army regiment.

 

People are talking about Martin McGuinness as if he woke up one morning and decided, on a whim to launch a terrorist campaign and then equally woke up another morning and decided to sit down with Ian Paisley. The reality is both processes evolved fluidly and he was not always in the driving seat of either. But it should be remembered above all that he was born into an apartheid system and through his actions, violent and peaceful, questionable or not, as a young and as an older man ended up concluding his life on an equal footing with the same civil and human rights as everyone else on the island.**

 

**Not my own words.**

 

Like Jim I tend to avoid religion and politics, local and global as to be quite honest I haven't experienced the extremes of either or ever intend to do so, but believe me when I tell you that I can remember a time that I'd only need to travel an hour in a northerly direction to see what it does to people and communities. I've stepped foot in Northern Ireland twice, in nearly forty years of being on this planet, and Ireland in particular. Both times since the Good Friday agreement.

 

Whatever and whoever brought the "peace" to bear, I think we can all agree that there is no going back.

[Al Massey]

Well there wasn't a religious divide in England at the time.

 

So why would the blame be on the English?

Since religion has been a root cause of problems since the 17th century.

[pedrosixfour]

And that's how long Republicans have been fighting English rule mate.

[Jellybean]

Well there wasn't a religious divide in England at the time.

 

So why would the blame be on the English?

Since religion has been a root cause of problems since the 17th century.

 

Your ignorance of history is astonishing

 

The goal of the unionist and overwhelmingly Protestant majority was to remain part of the United Kingdom. The goal of the nationalist and republican, almost exclusively Catholic, minority was to become part of the Republic of Ireland.

This was a territorial conflict, not a religious one.

 

British oppression -- Look up Plantations of Ireland

Plantations in 16th- and 17th-century Ireland involved the confiscation of land by the English crown and the colonisation of this land with settlers from the island of Great Britain.

 

Independence -- Look up Michael Collins

 

In particular Anglo-Irish Treaty,(1921) , Tyson was referring to this when he said Britain should have given the country it's independence

 

Ross Kemp did a fantastic Documentary on Northern Ireland present day in his Extreme world series

[marbleapple]

Then, when we didn't leave, a 5 year famine was engineered out of a single crop's failure to cull the masses,

 

The suggestion that a famine was engineered is a rather 'interesting' view of things.

 

I'm not going to respond on the issue of Ireland as its clear that no comments will make you view things differently. I think both sides have valid arguments. Same as the Falkland Islands.

 

The thread was about McGuiness. I'll respond re that. I view him as a terrorist turned politician (I'm not sure which is worse). I did find Lord Tebbit's comments to the press association today represent my view on any such person (whichever country or race he be from).

 

‘I’m just pleased that the world is a sweeter and cleaner place now. He was not only a multi-murderer, he was a coward,’...‘He claimed to be a Roman Catholic. I hope that his beliefs turn out to be true and he’ll be parked in a particularly hot and unpleasant corner of hell for the rest of eternity.’

 

Any person who kills and terrorises is better off not on this earth imo.