Wez Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 So basically you need to come in and say to yourself "right i have apot of say £2,500 (for example) and i'm happy to go down this road safe in the knoweldge there is a chance i will never see it again , and i'm cool with that" sort of mentality!! Yes, you have to be prepared to lose everything in your trading account, its only yours when you move it back into a normal bank account Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamesy Posted November 22, 2013 Author Share Posted November 22, 2013 The problem is, its very easy but without understanding it you will lose money. Basic trading is as simple as putting money in your trading account and then buy some lots and sell them, either with profit or loss. Its knowing when to buy in, you basically have the option to go long or short depending which way you think the currency pair will swing, the movements over a 24 hour period are insane, plus there are triggers like news event etc that cause larger jumps etc. One of the most basic strategies is news release trading, you monitor when the news announcements are coming and then get in just before and hop out after taking a few pips which could be £10 or £10,000+ depending on your trade size, that is profit or loss though I would say download the platform and have a play with a demo account and see how you get on. The more advance side of things is automated trading, you basically code in the platforms language and allow it to trade on your behalf based on your rules There are more automated trades than manual by a huge factor and there is serious money in creating them, some merchants were very clever in that they held competitions for people to create the most profitable strats and then awarded the winners lots of cash, £10k+ but they also got to keep the strats, very clever idea can you pay people to trade for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamc Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Are profits from currency trading classified as taxable earnings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lbm Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Robert Harris's fictional book "The Fear Index" has a character called Alex Hoffman. Based in Geneva, he has developed a revolutionary system that has the power to manipulate financial markets. Generating billions of dollars, it is a system that thrives on panic - and feeds on fear. I thoroughly enjoyed it http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fear-Index-Robert-Harris/dp/0099553260 The left or right one? It's complicated. He wears his left shoe on his right foot and vice versa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamesy Posted November 22, 2013 Author Share Posted November 22, 2013 It's complicated. He wears his left shoe on his right foot and vice versa. What a FLAMING genius! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamc Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Robert Harris's fictional book "The Fear Index" has a character called Alex Hoffman. Based in Geneva, he has developed a revolutionary system that has the power to manipulate financial markets. Generating billions of dollars, it is a system that thrives on panic - and feeds on fear. I thoroughly enjoyed it http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fear-Index-Robert-Harris/dp/0099553260 It's complicated. He wears his left shoe on his right foot and vice versa. Book sounds interesting. Stealing one shoe is fine, but both shoes and his gloves is a bit harsh... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lbm Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Book sounds interesting. Stealing one shoe is fine, but both shoes and his gloves is a bit harsh... I was watching a documentary recently and I think if we use minis and tunnels to escape, we'll be fine. I am a bit of a Robert Harris fan anyway, but it's a good read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Are profits from currency trading classified as taxable earnings? Depending on your account its tax free Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 can you pay people to trade for you Yes, I have a fund manager and get very good returns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandan Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Depending on your account its tax free How does that work Wez? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_b Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 This thread started as a request for advice on investing. Spread betting is nothing like investing, it is gambling and because it is leveraged gambling it is the most dangerous of all; done badly it is the easiest and quickest way to wipe out a given sum of money that you will ever find. To do it properly requires some learning, an insight into the markets you chose to gamble on and a totally strict management of risk. By doing that it is possible to make a steady return that over time can accumulate. I have had three goes at this. The first time I just dived in because of stories similar to being told here. I lost a six figure sum in a month and packed it in. The second time I tried after doing a lot of reading and used a trial account (where you start with pretend money, and is essential), did well for a while, got over confident, and lost money again. I started again three months ago after even more reading and training on risk management and in the first two months made £10,000 with a starting bank of £1,000, excellent return. This month I am £6,500 down despite trying to manage my risk properly, and I expect it will get worse before it gets better. This is not for the faint hearted. If you are impulsive or expect immediate returns don't even try it. Undoubtedly there are some making money, some very good money; the ones you don't hear from are those that routinely and regularly lose money because they will not tell you, like any gambler. Start by spending many hours reading and experimenting with a demo account on something like igindex.com and do your studying on a site like babypips.com. The illustration of Royal Mail is incorrect. When you sell the share you do so starting with the higher price not the lower one, so you don't start making a profit until the price has dropped through the buy price (the lower price) and then falls lower. It is the real price that is relevant but the service provider (igindex or a myriad of others) makes its money on the spread. The wider the spread, the further the share needs to move (down or up depending on whether you are selling or buying) before you make a profit. That is exactly the same as if you buy real shares, there is always a buy/sell spread. These are good points. I think I've hijacked the thread into a spread-betting one, so I'll say this bit then I'll be quiet about spread betting. Happy to discuss with anyone on PM or another thread specifically for it, but not this one. You're right about the risks, and I've been lax about pointing them out. It can be incredibly risky, depending on how leveraged you are. Anyone who isn't comfortable with share dealing shouldn't do this. The OP asked for some high risk suggestions, but I still said it wasn't a serious one. Like a lot of these things, the devil's in the detail (i.e. what bets to consider, when to open a position, when to close a position). Similar to Jamie's ISA example: he made 400% over 5 years, but that all depends on the specific choices his manager made. With poor choices, he would have been down. Without careful consideration of those things, you'll probably either lose money slowly or quickly depending on your leverage. You have to be interested in what moves share prices before you stand a chance with this. Two things about spread betting: 1) you can get punished if the price moves against you temporarily (triggering your stop-loss); 2) to make money you not only have to be correct, but you have to be correct within a certain timescale. Not so much of an issue if you're using bets lasting several months, but tricky if you're using short-term ones lasting a day or so. Other firms may do it differently, but with IG Index my Royal Mail example is correct. When you open a short position, you open it at the lower bound of the spread. If you wanted to close it early, you must close it at the upper bound. So to make money, the upper bound has to fall through the level of the lower bound when you opened the short position. Also, the real price is relevant but it's not the price you open or close positions at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 How does that work Wez? http://www.fxcm.co.uk/open-account/ Look at the above link and when opening account, just tick the box "Make this a tax-free spread-betting account" According to the IR ff you are only spread betting its tax free. only non spread bet trades are taxable. http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/bimmanual/bim22015.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamesy Posted November 22, 2013 Author Share Posted November 22, 2013 Is currency trading and normal stock trading taxable then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Is currency trading and normal stock trading taxable then? Normal stock trading is taxable unless you wrap it in an ISA, you will be liable for any profits you make beyond your personal allowances. FOREX if done with a spread-betting account according to IR is also tax free, under a none spread-betting account I assume it would be the same as a normal trading account, ie once your personal allowances have run out you would be liable for tax. Tax treatment In the UK and some other European countries the profit from spread betting is free from tax. The UK and some other European countries tax authorities designate financial spread betting as gambling and not investing, meaning it is free from capital gains tax and stamp tax, despite the fact that its regulated as a financial product by the Financial Services Authority in the UK. Most traders are also not liable for Income Tax unless they rely solely on their profits from financial spread betting to support themselves. The popularity of financial spread betting in the UK and some other European countries, compared to trading other speculative financial instruments such as CFDs and futures is partly due to this tax advantage. However, this also means any losses cannot be offset against future earnings for tax calculations. Conversely, in most other countries financial spread betting income is considered taxable. For example the Australian Tax Office issued a decision in March 2010 saying "Yes, the gains from financial spread betting are assessable income under section 6-5 or section 15-15 of the ITAA 1997".[8] Similarly, any losses on the spread betting contracts are deductible. This has resulted in a much lower interest in financial spread betting in those countries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamesy Posted November 22, 2013 Author Share Posted November 22, 2013 seems spread betting is the way to go! one of my mates from a previous job works in the city dealing in the stock market - this thread reminded me of him so i'll be knocking on his door for some old-timers mates rates and tips lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dnk Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Come and buy a Spanish villa/finca with me 4 bedroom 2700 m plot private gardens/pool etc on the market for £112,000 !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 seems spread betting is the way to go! Just have in mind that the money you are using is gone until you remove it one of my mates from a previous job works in the city dealing in the stock market - this thread reminded me of him so i'll be knocking on his door for some old-timers mates rates and tips lol This would deff be a good idea, there are also various trading forums but to be honest you will get very little from them, anyone who is making serious money isnt going to provide the info for free via a public site, also if everyone used the same strategy then it would no longer work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorling Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Other firms may do it differently, but with IG Index my Royal Mail example is correct. When you open a short position, you open it at the lower bound of the spread. If you wanted to close it early, you must close it at the upper bound. So to make money, the upper bound has to fall through the level of the lower bound when you opened the short position. Also, the real price is relevant but it's not the price you open or close positions at. You are correct and I was wrong about the starting point on a sell bet, although we agree on the activity required in order for the bet to be a winner. I said in my first message that I lost a six figure sum in a month. That was wrong too, I'm an accountant what do I know about numbers, it was a five figure loss but still brought a tear to the eye. Still I have recovered £1,500 of this months losses this afternoon so perhaps I have hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Come and buy a Spanish villa/finca with me 4 bedroom 2700 m plot private gardens/pool etc on the market for £112,000 !!! Where in Spain is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dnk Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Where in Spain is that? Valle de Sol in between Murcia and the coast at Cartengena (25km away) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Valle de Sol in between Murcia and the coast at Cartengena (25km away) Bargain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dnk Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Bargain That's what i thought Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 I've been currency trading for 4/5 years now, its taken 4 years to become consistently profitable and it's still hard going, I could point you to a link which will cut through all the bs out there and save you many years of frustration! I've been full time with it just the past year and I've done pretty well tbh, 900% for the year (12,000 pips) year 2 i'll be scaling back the risk but if you really want to make money from this business you need a large account to start with, I'd say the majority open accounts with under 5k (and thats ok to start with) but realistically you'd want to an account of £25k+ and running positions around £2-£5pp per position I've managed to pull out profit and get my account up to a decent float so hopefully I can keep it going Currently been buying all the cheaper cryptocoins lately too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 I could point you to a link which will cut through all the bs out there and save you many years of frustration! Yes please Also, what's the tax position of this? Is it classified as gambling? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorling Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Yes please Also, what's the tax position of this? Is it classified as gambling? Yes, it's tax free as it is defined as gambling although just in the last couple of weeks there have been noises about profits being redefined taxable. Their problem is that if they tax profits can the Treasury afford the tax relief on all the losses that the majority of traders make Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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