marbleapple Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Why not surf eBay in your spare time, buy items on the cheap, and then resell them for more. From my experience the return on investment % is usually well in excess of normal investments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_b Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Just for a bit of fun, IG are quoting a spread of 544.5 - 548.9 on March 2014 Royal Mail. Let's see what happens over the next few weeks. I've got a feeling they'll go down a bit as the recent rise may have been overdone. This is definitely not a dead cert, I haven't placed the actual bet myself, that's how certain I am of it. Let's say we short at £100/point. We'll put all of £5k on the line, so a stop loss at 594.5. If the price reaches that level at any point, we've lost the lot! So if you stuck £5,000 on with £100/point and they go down to say 540.5 you earn back £400? What is the spread that IG have quoted about above? You're correct about them going down to 540.5 (see the caveat), and you getting £400. Here's the caveat: when I say "going down to 540.5" I don't mean the actual share price: I mean the higher bound of the spread. So to get a £400 gain, the spread quoted by IG would need to look something like this: 536.2 - 540.5 (lower number is irrelevant but included for completeness). The spread is updated in real time as the underlying share price moves. It doesn't usually get much wider or narrower, the range just moves around to track the share price. The share price is almost always roughly in the middle of the spread. Notice how, for a small price movement (approx 6p) you've gained £400. To get that gain with actual shares, you'd need to buy £36k worth of shares. The spread bet we've placed is highly geared, or "leveraged" as the finance guys call it. The spread (544.5 - 548.9 as of last night) means that you can either place a bet that the share price will be below 544.5, or you can place a bet that it will be above 548.9. In each case, you'd specify the amount of money per point (in this case per penny of spread boundary movement) that you'd gain if you are right (and same same rate is always used to take money from you if you are wrong). The region within the spread is like a no-man's land for punters: you can't place a bet that it will be somewhere within the spread. With spread betting, you never "stick £5k on" though. That's fixed-odds betting where you always know your maximum loss when you place the bet. With a spread bet, you only specify the rate at which you gain (if you're right) or lose (if you're wrong). That's one of the reasons why they can be dangerous: your losses can be limitless. That's where a stop-loss comes in. It's a safety feature. Your bet is stopped and your current losses are realised when the spread price reaches the stop-loss level. In my real-world example, setting the stop loss at 594.5 means I could only lose a maximum of £5k. If I didn't have the stop-loss and the shares increased hugely, I'd be filing for bankruptcy the next day. Binary bets are a derivative of spread betting, but they are fixed-odds with a simple yes/no outcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamesy Posted November 22, 2013 Author Share Posted November 22, 2013 I'll chat with one of the guys this morning and get back to you mate. It's quite simple and he makes a few quid. He only dabbles but with an extra 50-300 quid coming in every working day then it's not to be sniffed at. ok cool thanks mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamesy Posted November 22, 2013 Author Share Posted November 22, 2013 Why not surf eBay in your spare time, buy items on the cheap, and then resell them for more. From my experience the return on investment % is usually well in excess of normal investments. Yeah used to always look around ebay for the next big thing - or to be an exclusive importer for a set time frame - i remember a 16yr old kid got this 1 yr exclusive deal oin these scooters from America and made £1m in that year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazil Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 I had a friend that was dealing in currency, he had been doing it for a long time but he lost a lot of money and his investors; If you go down this route make sure you choose the right person. I have also heard of people making really good money on the stocks by paying experts for their tip sheets, which is great way to get into it for a novice. On the other hand, 5k pounds will get you a Kg of the go faster powder in Brazil, you can step o it at leat 3x and make 120k.... I can sort you out.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamesy Posted November 22, 2013 Author Share Posted November 22, 2013 On the other hand, 5k pounds will get you a Kg of the go faster powder in Brazil, you can step o it at leat 3x and make 120k.... I can sort you out.... :D ... only a KG?!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorling Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 This thread started as a request for advice on investing. Spread betting is nothing like investing, it is gambling and because it is leveraged gambling it is the most dangerous of all; done badly it is the easiest and quickest way to wipe out a given sum of money that you will ever find. To do it properly requires some learning, an insight into the markets you chose to gamble on and a totally strict management of risk. By doing that it is possible to make a steady return that over time can accumulate. I have had three goes at this. The first time I just dived in because of stories similar to being told here. I lost a six figure sum in a month and packed it in. The second time I tried after doing a lot of reading and used a trial account (where you start with pretend money, and is essential), did well for a while, got over confident, and lost money again. I started again three months ago after even more reading and training on risk management and in the first two months made £10,000 with a starting bank of £1,000, excellent return. This month I am £6,500 down despite trying to manage my risk properly, and I expect it will get worse before it gets better. This is not for the faint hearted. If you are impulsive or expect immediate returns don't even try it. Undoubtedly there are some making money, some very good money; the ones you don't hear from are those that routinely and regularly lose money because they will not tell you, like any gambler. Start by spending many hours reading and experimenting with a demo account on something like igindex.com and do your studying on a site like babypips.com. The illustration of Royal Mail is incorrect. When you sell the share you do so starting with the higher price not the lower one, so you don't start making a profit until the price has dropped through the buy price (the lower price) and then falls lower. It is the real price that is relevant but the service provider (igindex or a myriad of others) makes its money on the spread. The wider the spread, the further the share needs to move (down or up depending on whether you are selling or buying) before you make a profit. That is exactly the same as if you buy real shares, there is always a buy/sell spread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazil Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 :D ... only a KG?!!!! Better if you PM from this stage mate, ... heheheheh Watch this 1:40 ''600'' Pound a kilo in Colombia [video=youtube;TNaRxmK-bVM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNaRxmK-bVM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamesy Posted November 22, 2013 Author Share Posted November 22, 2013 Better if you PM from this stage mate, ... heheheheh Watch this 1:40 ''600'' Pound a kilo in Colombia http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNaRxmK-bVM ha - luckily we cant view that video in this country it says!! anyway i'm out, i want to be able to sleep at night :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamesy Posted November 22, 2013 Author Share Posted November 22, 2013 This thread started as a request for advice on investing. Spread betting is nothing like investing, it is gambling and because it is leveraged gambling it is the most dangerous of all; done badly it is the easiest and quickest way to wipe out a given sum of money that you will ever find. To do it properly requires some learning, an insight into the markets you chose to gamble on and a totally strict management of risk. By doing that it is possible to make a steady return that over time can accumulate. I have had three goes at this. The first time I just dived in because of stories similar to being told here. I lost a six figure sum in a month and packed it in. The second time I tried after doing a lot of reading and used a trial account (where you start with pretend money, and is essential), did well for a while, got over confident, and lost money again. I started again three months ago after even more reading and training on risk management and in the first two months made £10,000 with a starting bank of £1,000, excellent return. This month I am £6,500 down despite trying to manage my risk properly, and I expect it will get worse before it gets better. This is not for the faint hearted. If you are impulsive or expect immediate returns don't even try it. Undoubtedly there are some making money, some very good money; the ones you don't hear from are those that routinely and regularly lose money because they will not tell you, like any gambler. Start by spending many hours reading and experimenting with a demo account on something like igindex.com and do your studying on a site like babypips.com. The illustration of Royal Mail is incorrect. When you sell the share you do so starting with the higher price not the lower one, so you don't start making a profit until the price has dropped through the buy price (the lower price) and then falls lower. It is the real price that is relevant but the service provider (igindex or a myriad of others) makes its money on the spread. The wider the spread, the further the share needs to move (down or up depending on whether you are selling or buying) before you make a profit. That is exactly the same as if you buy real shares, there is always a buy/sell spread. ....interesting angle on it mate thanks i am VERY implusive and can be a bit non-sensible at times .... i have never really gone down the gambling route as A. My dad always warned me against it, and B. i tried it a few times with the footie and realised for someone with an adicctive personailty its not a good route!! Some other ideas on here are very good food for thought though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayfun.tugra Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 50k in Argentina interest rate 12% paid monthly? 6k? each month? theres a lot of questions to be asked lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lbm Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 50k in Argentina interest rate 12% paid monthly? 6k? each month? theres a lot of questions to be asked lol Do you mean £6000 per month Or 50k @ 12% pa = 6k over 12 months which would be £500 per month interest. Either way it's a high return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 £11,500 a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Forex (currency) trading is very addictive but can become a full time job with you losing lots of hours as its available 24/7 during the week I wrote automated strategies using the FXCM Trading Station platform and then later used their MT4 platform which is used by most FOREX merchants, you can make £1000s a day but research is key and also overcoming your own emotions, you need to set yourself strict limits and stick to them, take the losses and the wins, dont hold out etc, it can be very cruel, for every person making money there are many more losing Not done it for a couple of months though as I have had so much other stuff going on but I will get back into it in the new year. Stocks and Shares are far simpler, forget day trading unless you have lots of money to play with otherwise the trading fees mean you are expecting to large a swing to profit, for an ISA locked account its far easier to pick some good companies, buy in just after their divs have been allocated as the price will drop as all the div traders will sell off and move onto the next one, then sit on them and just let them pay out, some pay out once a year, others four times etc. Even if the shares move a little it wont matter as your return from the divs should be more than enough to cover any small losses on the main trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamesy Posted November 22, 2013 Author Share Posted November 22, 2013 50k in Argentina interest rate 12% paid monthly? 6k? each month? theres a lot of questions to be asked lol Do you mean £6000 per month Or 50k @ 12% pa = 6k over 12 months which would be £500 per month interest. Either way it's a high return. excellent so just need an Agentinian bank account Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamesy Posted November 22, 2013 Author Share Posted November 22, 2013 Forex (currency) trading is very addictive but can become a full time job with you losing lots of hours as its available 24/7 during the week I wrote automated strategies using the FXCM Trading Station platform and then later used their MT4 platform which is used by most FOREX merchants, you can make £1000s a day but research is key and also overcoming your own emotions, you need to set yourself strict limits and stick to them, take the losses and the wins, dont hold out etc, it can be very cruel, for every person making money there are many more losing Not done it for a couple of months though as I have had so much other stuff going on but I will get back into it in the new year. Stocks and Shares are far simpler, forget day trading unless you have lots of money to play with otherwise the trading fees mean you are expecting to large a swing to profit, for an ISA locked account its far easier to pick some good companies, buy in just after their divs have been allocated as the price will drop as all the div traders will sell off and move onto the next one, then sit on them and just let them pay out, some pay out once a year, others four times etc. Even if the shares move a little it wont matter as your return from the divs should be more than enough to cover any small losses on the main trade. definitely like the sound of currency trading - need ot find out more, like who you buy it from and who you sell it to and where the currency is hel din the interim!! where do you find market info for this kind of thing like variances in currencies and what swings are expected? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lbm Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 definitely like the sound of currency trading - need ot find out more, like who you buy it from and who you sell it to and where the currency is hel din the interim!! where do you find market info for this kind of thing like variances in currencies and what swings are expected? It's just a man in a hut off J15 M4. Ask for big Neil. Oh and he keeps it in his shoe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorling Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 excellent so just need an Agentinian bank account And you can expect to lose most of the interest you earn as you convert your money into pesos and then try to convert it back into sterling when you want your money back. They are paying that amount of interest for a reason, and its not because their economy and their currency are worth investing in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamc Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 definitely like the sound of currency trading - need ot find out more, like who you buy it from and who you sell it to and where the currency is hel din the interim!! where do you find market info for this kind of thing like variances in currencies and what swings are expected? Im interested in this as well, but need to do a lot more research! It's just a man in a hut off J15 M4. Ask for big Neil. Oh and he keeps it in his shoe. The left or right one? And you can expect to lose most of the interest you earn as you convert your money into pesos and then try to convert it back into sterling when you want your money back. They are paying that amount of interest for a reason, and its not because their economy and their currency are worth investing in! Good point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedrosixfour Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 +1 for the drugs option. I spoke to an "interesting" chap who funded a round the world trip by simply buying whatever drug was cheap in the country he was in at the time and then choosing whatever destination would net him the greatest return for his investment. He'd then buy whatever was plentiful, and therefore cheap, in that country and move on again when funds started to dwindle. If it is risk you are looking for then I don't think much else could come close, except a gun with six chambers and five bullets! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 definitely like the sound of currency trading - need ot find out more, like who you buy it from and who you sell it to and where the currency is hel din the interim!! where do you find market info for this kind of thing like variances in currencies and what swings are expected? Check out http://www.fxcm.com/ they have demo accounts available and their trading platforms are very nice, there are also lots of indicators and strategies built in which you can play with plus a large community of 3rd party strategies etc, if you are serious about it be prepared to spend many hours, they also have one of the best mobile platforms so you can keep and eye on and trade while out and about ZuluTrade is another take on Forex https://www.zulutrade.org.uk/ With Zulu you create an account and then subscribe to other traders strategies, ie you buy and sell when they indicate, there are league tables etc and requires a lot less research than going it alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamesy Posted November 22, 2013 Author Share Posted November 22, 2013 thanks Wez. Im wondering how straightforward this is to learn? surely if it were easy everyone would be having a dabble i guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamc Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 thanks Wez. Im wondering how straightforward this is to learn? surely if it were easy everyone would be having a dabble i guess Most probably cannot afford to right off that much, if something goes wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamesy Posted November 22, 2013 Author Share Posted November 22, 2013 So basically you need to come in and say to yourself "right i have apot of say £2,500 (for example) and i'm happy to go down this road safe in the knoweldge there is a chance i will never see it again , and i'm cool with that" sort of mentality!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 thanks Wez. Im wondering how straightforward this is to learn? surely if it were easy everyone would be having a dabble i guess The problem is, its very easy but without understanding it you will lose money. Basic trading is as simple as putting money in your trading account and then buy some lots and sell them, either with profit or loss. Its knowing when to buy in, you basically have the option to go long or short depending which way you think the currency pair will swing, the movements over a 24 hour period are insane, plus there are triggers like news event etc that cause larger jumps etc. One of the most basic strategies is news release trading, you monitor when the news announcements are coming and then get in just before and hop out after taking a few pips which could be £10 or £10,000+ depending on your trade size, that is profit or loss though I would say download the platform and have a play with a demo account and see how you get on. The more advance side of things is automated trading, you basically code in the platforms language and allow it to trade on your behalf based on your rules There are more automated trades than manual by a huge factor and there is serious money in creating them, some merchants were very clever in that they held competitions for people to create the most profitable strats and then awarded the winners lots of cash, £10k+ but they also got to keep the strats, very clever idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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