Oddball87 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 i think its defo worth getting a new crank pulley/oil and water pump if one of them failed after you finsh your build you would be paying alot more to put it right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted February 18, 2011 Author Share Posted February 18, 2011 There is more to building a single car than just bolting on a kit, fuel system and ecu, what on earth is the point of 5-600hp if the car won't stop or go round corners any quicker than a BPU car, its a bit like bikes and im sure JP will back me up here the way to make a bike quicker especially round a track is to improve the braking and handling. Yes it is poss to do the conversion for under 10K but only if you use secondhand parts and have a perfect engine, the americans prob find it very strange that we run on stock props, I believe most of em change to 1 piece as they go single, yes the stock rail can handle bigger injectors but I would not run one, do you need a stronger T belt, maybe not but it would be nice, billet tensioner some say yes you do, bigger rad maybe if you are going to use the performance, oil coolers..... if you do track days yes. Biggest saving will be doing the labour yourself, which is fine till something goes wrong like cars we have had with fuel systems plumbed in wrong etc etc. You are completely missing my point Dude, as are most of the people to be honest. The things that you list are things that I would always have on a car with that sort of power, or at least aim to have them in as short a time as possible. My point is that all these things are all muddled into the "cost of a single build" comments. It is unfair to say a build can't be done for under 10k because you need the valve stem seals done, the oil pump done, the water pump done, UK brakes, expensive alloys, expensive tyres, etc, etc ,etc... the list is literally endless. It is comments like "a decent single build can't be done for less than 10k" that get my back up as they are absolute nonsense. If the engine needs maintenence to get it up to spec then IMO if it isn't aftermarket parts that are required it is because the engine needs maintenence regardless of going single. My build thread shopping list contains everything I plan to do to my car in the lead up to going single. I have covered most of the things mentioned in this thread but IMO they are not part of the "Single" budget. When someone asks the question of how much does it cost to go single, some of the numbers banded about are just lunacy.... but that is because it is what THEY have paid for their kit and what THEY deem necessary to run a single car. The actual bolt on bolt off single bits will remain pretty much a constant througout certain power ranges, unless the absolute BEST must be used (or the absolute worst at the other end of the scale). I would always mention, when someone asks, that there are a lot of additional costs that normally go hand in hand with a single kit... but they are not integral to the actual single build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted February 18, 2011 Author Share Posted February 18, 2011 You can and probably will after the event Like the 80k evo that dude currently has in stock? Or Ernies car that is currently sitting in bits in the Whifbitz garage? Come on Gaz, lets be serious for a minute here. How much did TLicense spend on going single? IanC? Lets talk the most reliable singles on the forum vs the least reliable... cash is the answer? The expensive ones are the reliable ones? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny g Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Like the 80k evo that dude currently has in stock? Or Ernies car that is currently sitting in bits in the Whifbitz garage? Come on Gaz, lets be serious for a minute here. How much did TLicense spend on going single? IanC? Lets talk the most reliable singles on the forum vs the least reliable... cash is the answer? The expensive ones are the reliable ones? I think knowledge and research are more the answer. Also advances in technology too. Years ago, 600bhp on a stock block weren't heard of too much, now, it's the norm - thanks to newer, better ECU's (Syvecs, AEM v2, etc) and then the billet wheel turbos. Then there's competition for work between vendors and garages. There's several kits out now for turbos that weren't, a few years back. Same for single installers. It's always moving goal posts, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted February 18, 2011 Author Share Posted February 18, 2011 I think knowledge and research are more the answer. Also advances in technology too. Years ago, 600bhp on a stock block weren't heard of too much, now, it's the norm - thanks to newer, better ECU's (Syvecs, AEM v2, etc) and then the billet wheel turbos. Then there's competition for work between vendors and garages. There's several kits out now for turbos that weren't, a few years back. Same for single installers. It's always moving goal posts, though. Totally agree, I think research and patience is the key to a reliable single car. I think choosing the person to install the single onto your car is also fundemental (if not competent yourself). If going for it yourself, time and patience have to be available in spades. The above doesn't cost a penny and IMO is easily as important (in fact probably more so) than a big chequebook I had a local garage telling me that he would "single" my car for 3k. How he was planning on doing this and make a profit I have absolutely no idea but I haven't taken my car there since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Like the 80k evo that dude currently has in stock? Or Ernies car that is currently sitting in bits in the Whifbitz garage? Come on Gaz, lets be serious for a minute here. How much did TLicense spend on going single? IanC? Lets talk the most reliable singles on the forum vs the least reliable... cash is the answer? The expensive ones are the reliable ones? I am being serious. I ran my single for 50k+ miles. The thing is, single (and big twin) builds need development to run reliably. That development costs money. I haven't heard about anyone who has had a single turbo conversion work right first time and their car continue working as required for many thousands of miles afterwards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt H Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 What about contingency? One has to factor in for the unforeseeable, otherwise they may find themselves in sh!t creek. You can't anticipate a single build to go completely smoothly from start to finish. Something always crops up - I'd be suprised if it didn't, it's par for course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny g Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 It also massively depends on how it's driven. You can own a "800 bhp" single and run it for 100,000 miles, if you're doing motorway mileages, etc. That's not a true reflection of use. Someone like Jay and Jamie use their cars hard and fast but maybe don't do the "mega" miles that a daily would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted February 18, 2011 Author Share Posted February 18, 2011 I am being serious. I ran my single for 50k+ miles. The thing is, single (and big twin) builds need development to run reliably. That development costs money. I haven't heard about anyone who has had a single turbo conversion work right first time and their car continue working as required for many thousands of miles afterwards I agree, so what made your car able to run for 50k+ miles? Was it without incident? Are you basing your cars success on how much money was spent or where the money was spent or both? Did you spend a lot on the maintenence being single that you wouldn't have spent being BPU? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny g Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 What about contingency? One has to factor in for the unforeseeable, otherwise they may find themselves in sh!t creek. You can't anticipate a single build to go completely smoothly from start to finish. Something always crops up - I'd be suprised if it didn't, it's par for course. For once I agree with you If you're stretching yourself to go single, then don't... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted February 18, 2011 Author Share Posted February 18, 2011 What about contingency? One has to factor in for the unforeseeable, otherwise they may find themselves in sh!t creek. You can't anticipate a single build to go completely smoothly from start to finish. Something always crops up - I'd be suprised if it didn't, it's par for course. Most definitely. IMO you could say how much, quite accurately, it would cost for a single install. From then you have an options list of engine preventative maintenence, performance handling parts, bling etc etc. Once you have decided the options you want to take you can then factor in a contingency plan/amount. My whole point here is based around the fact that "Going single" and the cost of the actual single build are 2 different things. One will be infinitely variable dependant on the condition of the engine, the age/condition of certain key areas and the other will be pretty much fixed dependant on the quality of parts chosen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt H Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Oh, and the most important aspect of any build is the person / place that is doing it. No amount of money can compensate for incompetence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Mitchell Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Well im doing my single build as we speak, its not cheap and for some reason your brain tune's in that £300 here and there aint alot but it clearly is to someone who works there butt off to afford things lol... there is no going back on my build now sooooo let the fun begin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 I agree, so what made your car able to run for 50k+ miles? Was it without incident? Are you basing your cars success on how much money was spent or where the money was spent or both? Did you spend a lot on the maintenence being single that you wouldn't have spent being BPU? It wasn't without incident by any means, but it was a definite curve. At the start I had nothing but problems, but had maybe 30k of pretty much trouble-free motornig once I had the right parts and set-up for my car. It wasn't the money that was the issue, it was the time to develop the setup for what I wanted. You'd be surprised how much hassle it was just making my car legal for trackdays. In terms of maintenence, of course it depends how you're using the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted February 18, 2011 Author Share Posted February 18, 2011 (edited) Here is where my money is going..... Already Installed: FMIC Boost Gauge AFR Gauge EGT Gauge Fresh Oil Pump Fresh Water Pump Fresh Front Crank Seal RSR GTII Exhaust system (Will probably be a restriction so HKS or Boostlogic will be a future purchase) HKS SSQV 2 Single List: Manifold - Boostlogic, Wrapped and coated Downpipe - 4" Boostlogic Midpipe - 4" Boostlogic Oil feed & return lines Cams - GSC Stage1 269/269 Injectors - Bosch 900cc High Impedance Fuel Rail - FIC Twin Feed Wastegate - 44mm Tial Filter to Turbo assy All to here £1900 Turbo - Precision 6765 DBB with Antisurge & Ported Shroud (Or possibly one of the new GTX turbos) £900 ECU - Syvecs with boost control & Trac control setup £2000-£2500 Clutch - Southbend OFE Series Stage 3 (750ft.lbs) £440 FPR - Aeromotive £90 Fuel Pump - Bosch 044 with in-tank kit £150 Fuel Lines - Fuel lines to split from FPR to dual rail. £not sure BOV - HKS Weld On Flange for current BOV £20? Springs & Retainers - Either Brian Crower or GSC singles (7200RPM rev limit, just a little cushion) £300 IC Routing - Various silicone bends & 3" pipes. £not sure Colder Grade Spark Plugs £100 max Misc - Exhaust Manifold Gasket, Exhaust Gaskets, nuts, bolts etc £Unsure Fitting - Lee P £1000+ dependant on options Mapping - Ryan G £Covered under ECU Optional Extras: Radiator - ASI Aluminium Radiator £90 Oil Cooling - 19 Row Oil Cooler, Filter Relocation Kit, sandwich plate £180 Gauges - Oil Pressure & oil temp gauge in one £150 4" Exhaust system - £600-£1000 Preventative maintenance: Rear Crank Seal - OEM £10 Cam Seals - OEM £30 Stem seals - OEM £100 Service - Oil, Coolant, filters, the usual. £150-£200 That all adds up to just over £7k not including fitting or the gaskets & bits and bobs etc etc. The fitting and bits and bobs can easily cover the £3k dependant on what you are after, add into that that I probably saved £1k on the parts I got from JP (I would have bought lesser parts totalling around £3K), it can be done. And in my humble opinion it can be done properly. If I didn't want a syvecs it would have been a fair bit cheaper. Edited February 18, 2011 by Scott (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted February 18, 2011 Author Share Posted February 18, 2011 It wasn't without incident by any means, but it was a definite curve. At the start I had nothing but problems, but had maybe 30k of pretty much trouble-free motornig once I had the right parts and set-up for my car. It wasn't the money that was the issue, it was the time to develop the setup for what I wanted. You'd be surprised how much hassle it was just making my car legal for trackdays. In terms of maintenence, of course it depends how you're using the car. Given the experience you have now, do you not think that a reliable single can be built for around £10k? Starting with a good base of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geo Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 clutch is the one i have dude, i dont like it. too heavy. in fact you've tried it out, skipping out the car park., thinking about changing mine to RPS. something to think about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Mitchell Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 You got a touch getting jamie's old setup scott, that would be on mine if the dog didnt think it was superman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted February 18, 2011 Author Share Posted February 18, 2011 clutch is the one i have dude, i dont like it. too heavy. in fact you've tried it out, skipping out the car park., thinking about changing mine to RPS. something to think about? Yours is the 6 puk though, no? If not then it's definitely going off the list lol. I wouldn't touch a 6 puk bud, the bite is terrible and for race/drag only IMO. You got a touch getting jamie's old setup scott, that would be on mine if the dog didnt think it was superman Definitely. As I said, I wouldn't have bought those parts if they hadn't came up on offer. I would have been 3" downpipe, 3" midpipe, stock fuel rail with drop ins etc etc. Not only have I saved a ew £££s I've also gained much higher spec parts than I would have went for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Mitchell Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 yeah i agree scott, best of luck with it all matey. nice spec. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geo Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 cant remember bud TBH, i'll need to check it. i just know the bite, and about town is a nightmare. might get lee to check? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted February 18, 2011 Author Share Posted February 18, 2011 cant remember bud TBH, i'll need to check it. i just know the bite, and about town is a nightmare. might get lee to check? Yeah mate let me know. The RPS is meant to be the same that way, the 6 puk variant that is. I'm aiming for a plate clutch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellybean Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 I am of the same thinking Scott; the foundational parts of you Engine need to be refreshed before you go single and excluded from a single budget; you have a near new OEM head and Block after the refresh ; with the right research and Mechanic I dont see why you cannot go single for 10K But research is the key and quality of parts used plus somebody who has a proven track record with these cars. Syvecs, Ryan G a twin waste gate Whiftbitz kit and Garrett GTX35R I cant see any issues with a reliable setup; it is all down to how it is installed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobSheffield Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 I had an RPS 6 puck on mine Scott. Granted i didnt do many miles, but it was smooth on uptake (despite half the distance i drove being unmapped and frankly not that nice) just heavier than OEM 'feel' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 When i went single i spent around the £10k mark with Michel, that was mainly for the fully built engine, good size fuel system from tank, and ecu, new pump, crank dampener, labour, mapping and a few other bits. The intercooler, turbo, downpipes, manifold, wastegate, exhaust, fuel rail, injectors, clutch, cams, intake and filter i'd already bought, some second hand, some new. So i guess you could put my build at more the £15k'ish. But i wanted to do it properly, no weak points, and i wanted an engine that would last as long as the stock one does running twins. I've only done about 5k in mine since the build but i would have no doubts that my engine, running what little boost it does, could happily do another 100k on top running the power it is, and i'd be confidant that if i ran another half a bar and got the power up to closer to 700 that it'd last as long. From what i've seen with singles, its the cars running higher boost that are less reliable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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