Rear sub frame swap - off for galvanzing, may turn into a project thread

[rider]

Did the POR 15 painting today on the Supra bodywork. The silver paint does take a lot of stirring as the metallic flake is pretty compacted on the bottom of the tin. POR suggest their paint should be stirred, not shaken; the opposite of 007. I assume this is to avoid air entrapment in the paint as any collapsed bubbles in a paint film would undermine the impervious surface coating that POR 15 is designed to provide.

 

It takes a long time, far longer than I'd envisaged. Took almost 3 hours to double coat the POR 15. Its a very thin paint so a little goes a very long way. I was painting out of a 1 pint tin and still had a third remaining at the end of the paint.

 

 

I like the POR 15 paint. I gives excellent coverage and being thin finds its way into all the tight places. I'm going to leave it for a couple of hours more, to let it get tacky then I'll apply an acrylic top coat. The recommendation from users is to wait till dry and then use the POR expensive primer or tackle it with paint while the POR layer is still tacky to aid adhesion so I'm going to do the latter.

 

I fished out the bolts and retainer rings for the drive shafts from their overnight soak in POR metal prep and its a big fail as far as I'm concerned for the mPOR metal prep. The POR metal prep did nothing but turn the grey paint black and left the rust spots brown. So the retainers have been treated to a coating in aquasteel.

[blythmrk]

You've still got the brake lines and hoses attached are you not swapping them for the new ones then?

[rider]

You've still got the brake lines and hoses attached are you not swapping them for the new ones then?

 

Decided not to do the line swap in the end seeing the brake lines were replaced just over a year ago for copper lines and the fuel lines are all like new except for a very short run where it exits the under car protective ducting where there was slight surface rusting. I've sanded that small section and painted so I'll store the new set of brake and fuel pipes for some other time.

[Scooter]

I don't think the POR metal prep is designed to really de rust (it will with vigorous brushing), more about making sure the POR (paint over rust) paint adheres and doesn't flake off in big chunks down the line.

 

"After thoroughly degreasing work piece, apply environmentally safe Metal-Prep to neutralize any rust and etch any clean bare metal for better adhesion of POR-15 or other paint

[rider]

Second coat of paint applied today and looking like a shiny black hole under the car. All painting is now completed so I'll give it a couple of days for the paint to cure and then finish it off with the rubberised spray onto the wheel housing where there is no factory protective coating applied or remaining after I tackled the failed parts. I will apply a good layer of Dinitrol spray grease which dries to a resilient film onto the area directly above where the frame sits to give further protection and water repellent to this area that once the frame is installed will no longer be accessible or visible

 

 

Onto the other parts, the heat shields are sanded and ready for prepping. Today started on the drive shafts getting them sanded down ready for treatment prior to painting over the next couple of days. It'll be onto the hubs as well tomorrow, which have been broken down to the constituent parts of backing plate, bearing housing and knuckle as these need to be finished by Saturday ready for their new bush, new shoes and new bearing fitting.

 

 

The wheel bearings that were removed were the original ones fitted to the car and both had corrosion on the bearing face so were ready for a change out.

 

Worked out the time involved so far on this project:

Me 45 hours

Mechanic mate 8 hours

Welder 10 hours (including travel time)

 

Total to date approx. 60 man hours

 

Costs to date

Bushes, arms, pipes, tank guard, tank straps and fittings

Amayama £780

Toyota Oxford £2,880

TCB £450

 

Other Parts

Wheel Bearings £190

Discs £100

Brake pads £120

Handbrake shoes £45

Drop links £60

Sway bar £120

Fuel pump £70

Fuel tank breather pipe (self fabricated) £25

 

Frame (second hand) £600

Frame prep £220

 

Materials

Paints £140

Chemicals £65

Sanding discs £15

 

Outside labour

Welder £200

Mechanic support (FOC)

 

Total spend so far £6,080, that hurts.

Edited October 25, 2017 by rider (see edit history)

[Sheefa]

Assume your car is not the White TT attending NEC Classic car show then?

 

Very comprehensive and competent refurbishment. You know the sad fact is you'll never get the money back, but it'll last decades.

 

 

[rider]

This car wont be making its way anywhere for a few more weeks yet, the exhaust is going to be the last thing to fit and that is looking like Christmas now if I stick with the Blitz option. I'm expecting once that is added along with other little things yet to crop up to the list of parts the final bill for the rear end overhaul will be over £7k, a little beyond what I was anticipating at the outset. I have started stockpiling parts for a front end revamp so I'm going to be running uncomfortably close to £10k spend.

 

It is a very expensive refurb but all new suspension parts and bushes along with the shocks that were changed under 3,000 miles ago means the car should pretty much ride like a new car. Nothing actually needed changing out but the option we all have on fitting the car with OE replacement parts is a finite window of opportunity to spend lots. The rust work should give it a better chance of staying intact and having your own lift available to keep on top of things makes annual inspections a near pleasure.

 

Is it worth it? I was thinking a few days ago on what impact all this work would have on the cars value and I agree, its not going to add much if anything. My biggest worry is that with all the throwing around on a heavy frame that the ABS leads could have got damaged and I'll have a bright yellow ABS warning light at the end of it all which could, if anything, detractover its pre refurb condition. Its clearly never going to be cost effective for anyone to do this but my hope is it ensures the car has a better than fighting chance of being a survivor for future generations. Its promised to my oldest grandson and he already calls it his car so I need to keep it in a condition he will be proud to own one day.

[rider]

Another day and another play. Tackled the drive shafts and the two central heat shields today then washed out the cooler intake rubbers. The rubbers, in the kitchen sink while the wife is out. The mud inside had turned strangely concrete like so took a lot of scrubbing and a fair bit of splashing around.

 

The main item was to start on the drive shafts, masking them up took a good while but I'm OK with that kind of thing. I was going to open up the black POR 15 for the non body bits but seeing there was a third of a tin of silver left I went with that. Using a disposable glove on the tin lid made opening the can straightforward, it would have been near impossible otherwise as POR 15 goes seriously hard when it dries. I love this POR paint, so little goes a long way which makes runs an issue but on shafts rotation and constant brushing stopped that.

 

 

Did the road side of the 2 central heat shields as well and I'll paint these black (matt) along with the shafts (gloss) in a couple of hours, before the POR 15 paint has fully dried. I'm doing the heat shields matt black only because I have a new shield to fit where the old one was non-existant (made way for the bespoke exhaust hanger) that I added extra layers of paint to a couple of months ago that was matt black.

 

Tomorrow I'll finish the parts up with painting the diff end of the shafts and the body side of the shields. Once the heat shields are done I'll Dinitrol the body side of the three shields before bolting onto the car. I've put back the hubs till the weekend which pushes the bearing and bush fit back a week but figured it'll be best to give the paint time to cure properly before the parts go anywhere near a hydraulic press.

[rider]

Every day is a Supra day.

 

Finished the drive shafts and heat shields. Pleased with the way the drive shafts turned out. Also applied a can of ABRO undercoating spray to all the inner wheel hosing exposed (not under factory protective coating) areas. Stuff smells strongly of fresh tar so its a high bitumen content product. Its very fluid so anything other than a quick pass with the spray turns quickly into a gravity led river. Its dulled the shiny paint down to a mat black bitumen type covering. Instructions do say not to spray anywhere near an exhaust system so its product specifically tailored to providing protection from chips, noise and corrosion in wheel wells. Looks a decent product though and US restoration sites tend to rave about it.

 

Pictures of the drive shafts before and after:

 

Edited October 27, 2017 by rider (see edit history)

[rider]

Had the final big ticket item turn up yesterday, a HKS Racing exhaust. Next day delivery, I cancelled my Blitz Nur order with Fensport placed in June as the exhaust has been delayed many times and has only just hit the water with a near to Christmas delivery date. The HKS racing exhaust looks a big exhaust, lets hope its not too noisy for the neighbours!

 

Finished painting up both of the deconstructed hubs and the bearings and new bush are being pressed home on Friday.Started on the differential today which is the final item to prep and paint and that should be finished by Saturday. Then its just the reassembly to do which I have already started with the exhaust hanger and shields. The removed trim is awaiting new fittings, which should land soon having been ordered over 2 weeks ago, before going back onto the car so the end is clearly in sight now.

 

Time involved so far on this project:

 

Me 60 hours

Mechanic mate 8 hours

Welder 10 hours (including travel time)

 

Total to date approx. 75 man hours (Ed China can rebuild an entire car in less time than that)

 

Costs to date

 

Bushes, arms, pipes, tank guard, tank straps and fittings

Amayama £780

Toyota Oxford £2,880

TCB £450

 

Other Parts

Wheel Bearings £190

Discs £100

Brake pads £120

Handbrake shoes £45

Drop links £60

Sway bar £120

Fuel pump £70

Fuel tank breather pipe (self fabricated) £25

HKS Exhaust £720

 

Frame (second hand) £600

Frame prep £220

 

Materials

Paints £140

Chemicals £65

Sanding discs £15

Exhaust putty, gaskets and hangers £30

 

Outside labour

Welder £200

Mechanic support (FOC)

 

Total spend so far £6,830, that still hurts.

Edited November 1, 2017 by rider (see edit history)

[Pete]

You know the sad fact is you'll never get the money back

Nonsense.

[Sheefa]

Nonsense.

No it's not.

 

 

[rider]

Nonsense.

 

You'd think having the only Mkiv Supra in the World running on a galvanised sub frame has to be worth something for the novelty factor if nothing else. Other than that I'm not planning on raising the insurance agreed value above the current £24k level.

[rider]

Did the diff prep work yesterday with a wire wheel run over, chemical cleaner and then a coating in aquasteel. I've decided against POR 15 painting the diff because the paint is so thin and the surface so rough it'd just pool, run and drip uncontrollably. So instead doing a zinc primer and top coat repaint. Stuck on what top coat to do, the surface is casting rough so gloss black will probably look not quite right. I'm going to try a satin black first see how that looks and hold the matt black in reserve. One thing about underneath my car, its going to be various shades of blackness.

 

Pictures of the wire wheeled diff, treated diff and as it presently stands, primed diff.

 

 

While the diff is off I have had the vent valve off, it was stuck closed and a lot of bits came out when it was solvent bathed. Works fine after the clean and reinstalled. I've ordered in some Fuchs Syn 5 for an oil change on the diff so tackled the fill and drain plugs. Both plugs were bitches and took a few pulls on a three foot breaker to break free. Why garages do them so tight only they know, back in finger tight only and no sign of any oil seepage so they don't need to be 100lb/ft. The drain plug oil coating does look very black which is surprising seeing the oil was changed about 5,000 miles ago, or maybe I just paid to have it changed? I wont drain the oil until I'm done with the painting. After the diff is top coat painted, that's it for paint.

[Pete]

No it's not.

 

Yes it is.

[rider]

Painting over except maybe some touch up I'll likely need to do on the hubs after their reassembly and bearing fitment. I'm happy with the way the satin black on the diff came out. Its tough paint, the same I used on the sub frame which hopefully means it'll be durable paint. Got bored with just black so painted the fill and drain plugs in go faster ferrari red. The Simonize tough paint takes a long while to dry so I'll give it a couple of days before doing an oil change and getting it bolted into the frame.

 

Before and after shots on the diff.

 

 

The diff didn't look that bad on the car but should look a lot fresher now with its new paint, new bushes and new bolts.

[rider]

Another Supra couple of hours today.

 

Changed the diff oil and then brought it together with the frame and coupled up the drive shafts as well. Maybe get the arms on tomorrow? Nothing tightened more than nip tight before the hubs go back on.

 

[rider]

Did get around to adding the arms to the frame this morning. It wasn't as straightforward as anticipated because several of the bolt holes were too small for the bolts; a consequence of the galvanizing process. So several of the bolt holes had to be reamed out with the old bolts first. The only arms torqued to spec are the upper control arms with the rest just nipped tight pending fitment of the hubs which will probably happen sometime this weekend along with the new discs.

 

 

One part that I did have to recycle is the routing clip for the ABS lead, this and the upper control arm insert that the clip bolts through are both discontinued according to MT T Oxford branch. I couldn't find part numbers for them anywhere. On the later facelift models the metal clips were replaced by plastic ones which are an integral part of the later ABS leads. One of my clips was rusted and holed. I treated the clips to a HCl dip and repaired any rust damage with epoxy putty and you'd be hard pressed to find the repair. Glad I got to them when I did or the ABS lead could have ended up waving around in the wind. Its maybe something people running pre facelift cars should have a check; to see how their thin steel ABS lead clips are bearing up.

 

ABS lead clip on upper control arms.

Edited November 7, 2017 by rider (see edit history)

[Scooter]

Just to mention re the torqueing of the arms, I think they are meant to be done at a certain resting position in order that the bushes aren't overly stressed at rest? I'm not sure re the top rear arms but thought I'd mention it in case it might affect yours and possibly shorten their life?

[Chris Wilson]

OE top arms have spherical bearings as inner pivots that are free to turn. Toyota wanted to minimise movement as the distance between top and bottom arms is minimal to give rear load space.

[Scooter]

So just to be clear (for me!) these can be torqued up regardless of position?

[rider]

There is nothing dragging down the arms until the hub is installed so the upper control arm was tightened in a horizontal loaded position which will be close to its on road position but being the upper arms they rotate on the bush reasonably freely anyway. The plan with the rest is to tighten with the hub in the riding position (rather than resting gravity position) and then finally torque up with the road wheel sitting on a raised platform. That will be close enough to the settled road position and still leave plenty of room underneath to wield 3 foot bars. I've used the wheels lowered down onto a variable height (hydraulic) platform before on other cars to change out suspension parts and it works well.

 

My mechanic mate said he will do the final frame torque setting with the car weight sat on both road wheels.

[Chris Wilson]

So just to be clear (for me!) these can be torqued up regardless of position?

 

Yes, (just the top rear wishbone inner pivots) are free to rotate

[Scooter]

Thanks, added to the memory banks

[Chris Wilson]

My memory needs a defrag!