Scooter Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 Little num removed the front subframe to get access to change the oil pump, which is the same sort of access you'll need. I have heard of people lowering the subframe a little and raising the engine a little (less is undone/removed) to allow you to squeeze out the sumps, but then unlike in the link there will be a lot still in the way when inspecting/removing/resealing. http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?185924-Sump-off-due-to-oil-pump-replacement-pics&highlight=subframe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazil Posted September 12, 2016 Author Share Posted September 12, 2016 Gentleman Update for you guys, the car has been sitting at the garage ever since my last post here; the long wait was due to mechanic went on a 4 weeks summer vacation and than he was entitled to another 4 weeks for his wife 'maternity'. So today the garage and mechanic finally continued to dismantle the oil sump as to have a better inspection of the possibility of oil line blockage due to over use of glue when making up the oil sump and this is what they found. the mechanic thinks it looks like the Mahle main bearing 'crankshaft'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike2JZ Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 Damn bad news, you going to rebuild? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazil Posted September 12, 2016 Author Share Posted September 12, 2016 Damn bad news, you going to rebuild? We still don't know what happened and why, the garage did the rebuild from scratch so I am hoping that they assume responsibility and that most parts can be used. I won't be shedding loads of money on it though, no way I can officially say I am over it throug in the towel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
add heywood Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 Mate I feel for you, don't come on here as often now and it seems the build is cursed with problems... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazil Posted September 13, 2016 Author Share Posted September 13, 2016 Mate I feel for you, don't come on here as often now and it seems the build is cursed with problems... Yes, its heart breaking especially when you include the time its taken, the stress of dealing with horrible garages and the financial hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
add heywood Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 Yeah, you've had a tough time... Onwards and upwards though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazil Posted September 19, 2016 Author Share Posted September 19, 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazil Posted September 19, 2016 Author Share Posted September 19, 2016 (edited) Gents, What would cause these to cease around the crank and break off? Re cap: The lower oil pressure happened when: The first day we mapped the car 1 bar after doing many miles running in the new motor. On the day my radiator fan got disconnected on a 10min drive home after mapping, I allowed car to cool fixed fan and when I test drove the car automatically oil pressure decreased. On the day was the first time we increased the RPM from base map to 7200 max - Car has HKS264 cams inlet and outlet. Being concerned about low oil pressure I drained oil not long after ans saw only some glue/sealent in the oil. Second time i drained the oil saw even more glue/sealent on oil but no metal debris. Low oil pressure remained an issue so we tear down engine. Edited September 19, 2016 by Brazil (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
and1c Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 (edited) Could possibly be caused by assembly/machining issue or incorrect torquing. Are you running ARP main studs? Personally I don't think the fan issue you had and bottom end failure are related. More likely that the problem was there from the start and progressed to this point after full power use on the dyno. You would have seen the car overheating had the fan been the issue? Edited September 19, 2016 by and1c (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
and1c Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 What is the crank like? I've got a spare perfect one if you need to buy a replacement. What machine shop did the work? are they experienced with this type of motor/build? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazil Posted September 19, 2016 Author Share Posted September 19, 2016 Could possibly be caused by assembly/machining issue or incorrect torquing. Are you running ARP main studs? Personally I don't think the fan issue you had and bottom end failure are related. More likely that the problem was there from the start and progressed to this point after full power use on the dyno. You would have seen the car overheating had the fan been the issue? What is the crank like? I've got a spare perfect one if you need to buy a replacement. What machine shop did the work? are they experienced with this type of motor/build? Hi bud, yes I was using it below is the engine spec list. Full Rebuild of HKS T04Z Turbo HKS Turbo Kit HKS 264 Cams Exhaust and Inlet side HKS 87mm Oversize Pistons - 3.1L Upgrade Carrillo Type Rods with ARP L19 Bolts ARP H11 Head Stud Kit ARP Main Stud Kit Kevlar Timing Belt And all the OEM bits new like oil pump, water pump oil squirters I have most of this from its previous build. Head getting Ported and Polished - Flux and air flow tested Block getting polished so compression is all the same on 6 cylinders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazil Posted September 19, 2016 Author Share Posted September 19, 2016 Forgotten to add also. On the day was the first time we increased the RPM from base map to 7200 max - Car has HKS264 cams inlet and outlet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
and1c Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 Forgotten to add also. On the day was the first time we increased the RPM from base map to 7200 max - Car has HKS264 cams inlet and outlet. Who built the engine (which garage? engine builder?) . The RPMs on their own wouldn't cause an issue on a good engine.... This engine had a problem before that IMO. I would be investigating what operations the machine shop carried out to the engine... the main bearing caps must be line honed with the ARP main studs correctly installed as they can cause slight ovalisation of the main caps due to different crush force under torque. This could cause a failure to main bearings. Line honing requires machines and skills that not all machining shops will have.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 Could be excess loading on the big end shells? Once one fails oil pressure will drop considerably to the rest of the engine. Det? Partial seizure due to overheating? Was this one of the mystical map by phone jobbies? You know my opinion of those... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazil Posted September 19, 2016 Author Share Posted September 19, 2016 (edited) Could be excess loading on the big end shells? Once one fails oil pressure will drop considerably to the rest of the engine. Det? Partial seizure due to overheating? Was this one of the mystical map by phone jobbies? You know my opinion of those... Chris, Romain mapped it on remote. Radiator temp never reached over 110 degrees - it wasn't enough even to burn a head gasket. After I fixed the fan problem there wasn't any more overheating temp issues, and I installed the oil temp gauge and it working within normal range afterwards. Edited September 19, 2016 by Brazil (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazil Posted September 19, 2016 Author Share Posted September 19, 2016 Oil temp when oil pressure was stable idling at 1.1 bar was 82 degrees Celsius. Above is oil temp after the event of the loss of oil pressure - Oil temp has been steady there wasn't anymore overheating issues after the short drive home where oil temp increased and caused radiator to piss out coolant only when I stopped the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Budz86 Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 I managed to spin a couple of shell bearings by having the wrong grade oil, which caused low pressure due to it being way to thin at operating temps. Took a fair bit of abuse before that happened though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazil Posted September 19, 2016 Author Share Posted September 19, 2016 I managed to spin a couple of shell bearings by having the wrong grade oil, which caused low pressure due to it being way to thin at operating temps. Took a fair bit of abuse before that happened though! /QUOTE] I was using 10-50 Millers Nanodrive Oil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
and1c Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 Was the block line honed. Because if it wasn't that is where you should be looking. I would be using 10w 40 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 I am afraid I have to disagree with and1c. Unless you fitted steel main caps, or different main caps, there would be no need to line hone the main journals just because ARP main studs were fitted. They are not designed to clamp the caps on TIGHTER, instead they are designed to not stretch under severe forces on the main caps from extra combustion forces. If steel main caps were fitted I agree with and1c entirely, there are very few companies that can line bore, then line hone a straight six block correctly, in the UK. I doubt Portugal have one over on us there In the USA where many of the good machine tools for this job are found, and Sunnen comes immediately to mind, it's a trivial expertise to find. It's the length of a straight six that makes keeping the bar on centre with no run out a bit of a nightmare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazil Posted September 19, 2016 Author Share Posted September 19, 2016 I am looking for the invoice but i am pretty certain they are Clevite Bearings I used what typically people use when doing an engine build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
and1c Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 I am afraid I have to disagree with and1c. Unless you fitted steel main caps, or different main caps, there would be no need to line hone the main journals just because ARP main studs were fitted. They are not designed to clamp the caps on TIGHTER, instead they are designed to not stretch under severe forces on the main caps from extra combustion forces. If steel main caps were fitted I agree with and1c entirely, there are very few companies that can line bore, then line hone a straight six block correctly, in the UK. I doubt Portugal have one over on us there In the USA where many of the good machine tools for this job are found, and Sunnen comes immediately to mind, it's a trivial expertise to find. It's the length of a straight six that makes keeping the bar on centre with no run out a bit of a nightmare. Could be mistaken then Chris! But I remember the ARP's as being a different spec. OEM main bolts are - 33ft lb then 90 degrees rotation ARP main studs - 60 ft lbs in several passes For my money that will give a different torque and hence potential ovalisation of the main caps http://www.power-division.com/product.php?productid=16273&cat=0&page=9 and ARP retailers are advising it. but Im sure your right, it's not a necessity, I'm just paranoid Definately agree regards the steel mains needing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pudsey Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 The trouble is in my opinion you will never get to the bottom of it. It could be as simple as the main cap bearings were to tight a tolerance, heat always makes things tighter not loser. The bearings could well have picked up, which directly will effect the oil pressure of the engine. Low oil pressure, and subsequently damage etc. I think this will go on forever unless you draw a line under it, sorry the way it's turned out Luiz. Get yourself on to bigger and better things Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellybean Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 Gutted for you Luiz, hope you get her fixed with minimal outlay! Just want to pick the guys brains , for Billet caps do you need to hone the block? Are you better sticking with OEM due to the few companies that can line bore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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