Low oil pressure problem.

[Guest Budz86]

I was using 10-50 Millers Nanodrive Oil

Sorry, should have put that differently, it's been a long few days! Lol.

 

Wasn't suggesting you were using a rubbish oil, after all the problems you've had I was fairly certain it wouldn't be something as simple as that! Was trying to say thay the low oil pressure is likely the cause of the shell damage, but as to what is causing the low pressure, that's a whole other ball game! Really feel for you on this as I know it's been a long road so far. Kudos for keeping it going when most would have thrown in the towel a long time ago!

[Brazil]

The trouble is in my opinion you will never get to the bottom of it.

 

It could be as simple as the main cap bearings were to tight a tolerance, heat always makes things tighter not loser.

 

The bearings could well have picked up, which directly will effect the oil pressure of the engine.

 

Low oil pressure, and subsequently damage etc.

 

I think this will go on forever unless you draw a line under it, sorry the way it's turned out Luiz.

 

Get yourself on to bigger and better things

 

Hey bud, I know this is such a carry on its almost comical! I understand what you mean about moving on to bigger and better, I'm with you there.

 

Though lets think for a minute of the sequence of events.

 

The pressure drop was instant after day radiator overheated to 110 degrees and when I stopped the car it flowed out of overflow tank

 

Also it happened on the day that I finally increased boost and RPM.

 

Is the bearings most likely to have picked up due to hot oil or higher RPM and increased boost?

 

Another question to understand the proportion of the oil pressure decrease - it halved instantly at idle after the above event from 2.2 bars hot to 1 bar when on temp.

[Pudsey]

Hey bud, I know this is such a carry on its almost comical! I understand what you mean about moving on to bigger and better, I'm with you there.

 

Though lets think for a minute of the sequence of events.

 

The pressure drop was instant after day radiator overheated to 110 degrees and when I stopped the car it flowed out of overflow tank

 

Also it happened on the day that I finally increased boost and RPM.

 

Is the bearings most likely to have picked up due to hot oil or higher RPM and increased boost?

 

Another question to understand the proportion of the oil pressure decrease - it halved instantly at idle after the above event from 2.2 bars hot to 1 bar when on temp.

 

As you say it's good to bring it back to the facts of situation.

 

If the bearings were giving just enough clearance all may have been well, but when the boost rpm and temperatures raised 'may' have been enough to bring the tolerances into interference.

 

I may be wrong, but if the tolerances closed to such an extent that contact was made it would cause the bearing damage, metal filings, low oil pressure, and perhaps an overheat.

 

I know there is a lot of 'may' and 'perhaps', but that is what could of caused it.

 

As I was trying to say really as was others, it could be anything, but what I have explained provides a root cause that could have caused what's happend.

 

Trouble is disproving it, like all the other scenarios.

[Brazil]

Gents,

 

The machine shop is blaming my bottom end failure on the Clevite bearings that I bought from whiffbitz, they told me that they are of poor quality bearing being boxed up as Clevite Performance bearings and should of not been used on this application.

 

The Clevite Bearings have actually NDC bearings Stamp and part number.

 

Have you heard of anything like this before?

 

 

 

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[np89]

In my experience no engine builder or machine shop will rarely ever stand over work like this if something fails. There's always someone or something else to blame!

 

 

[np89]

Do you suspect that the bearings you were sold are not infact clevite bearings?

 

 

[Chris Bailey]

We have Clevite race bearings and have been fine in our engine for 15000+miles throughout many different power changes from 550bhp up to 750+bhp.

 

From the sounds of it the engine builder has found a fault they have done and trying to cover there backsides.

[np89]

We have Clevite race bearings and have been fine in our engine for 15000+miles throughout many different power changes from 550bhp up to 750+bhp.

 

From the sounds of it the engine builder has found a fault they have done and trying to cover there backsides.

Sadly I agree that appears to be the case all too often with these things. Ive never heard of any engine builder or mechanic standing over this sort of work unless forced or taken through the courts!

 

 

[Brazil]

Do you suspect that the bearings you were sold are not infact clevite bearings?

 

/QUOTE]

 

In my experience no engine builder or machine shop will rarely ever stand over work like this if something fails. There's always someone or something else to blame!

 

/QUOTE]

 

We have Clevite race bearings and have been fine in our engine for 15000+miles throughout many different power changes from 550bhp up to 750+bhp.

 

From the sounds of it the engine builder has found a fault they have done and trying to cover there backsides.

 

I believe that the bearings that were installed and packaged as Clevite bearings were NDC manufactured bearings but boxed as Clevite - I read a lot online and this is happening and apparently to guarantee you buy Clevite its better to contact them directly they are build differently

 

What I like to confirm is if the Clevite bearings I bought are fake ones just boxed as Clevite or has Clevite as a company bought NDC and are selling their bearings as Clevite with full commitment that the NDC bearings is of a built quality that can handle the job.

[Guest Budz86]

Fire off a quick email to Clevite as they will tell you very quickly if they're fake. They would probably also be interested to know own where they were purchased so they can crack down on the fakes

[np89]

I believe that the bearings that were installed and packaged as Clevite bearings were NDC manufactured bearings but boxed as Clevite - I read a lot online and this is happening and apparently to guarantee you buy Clevite its better to contact them directly they are build differently

 

What I like to confirm is if the Clevite bearings I bought are fake ones just boxed as Clevite or has Clevite as a company bought NDC and are selling their bearings as Clevite with full commitment that the NDC bearings is of a built quality that can handle the job.

That has pretty serious implications for Whifbitz if that is the case! Infact its heinous!

 

I think you need to get to the bottom of this with them or clevite immediately! Have you made enquiries with Paul at Whifbitz or Clevite themselves?

 

 

[Brazil]

That has pretty serious implications for Whifbitz if that is the case! Infact its heinous!

 

I think you need to get to the bottom of this with them or clevite immediately! Have you made enquiries with Paul at Whifbitz or Clevite themselves?

 

/QUOTE]

 

I am waiting to have a very credible trader o here to check the serial number for the clevite bearings that he has in stock to compare.

[absz]

I'm sure my Clevite bearings have the same markings which I bought direct from Titan motorsports will check old pictures tomorrow

[Chris Wilson]

NDC are excellent quality Japanese made bearings and a huge number of genuine, boxed "Clevite" bearing sets will actually have NDC made bearings in them. The majority, probably. There's NOTHING dodgy going on. It's like oil filters, lots of differently branded and boxed filters actually are made by someone else.

[Brazil]

NDC are excellent quality Japanese made bearings and a huge number of genuine, boxed "Clevite" bearing sets will actually have NDC made bearings in them. The majority, probably. There's NOTHING dodgy going on. It's like oil filters, lots of differently branded and boxed filters actually are made by someone else.

 

Yes I just looked up the main bearings UPC number on the MAHLE website LINK and the part number on the site says - View product: MS-2014A

 

But my bearings are NDC M2-1434-L

[Brazil]

What are all the causes of the main end bearings failure after running smoothly for 2k miles and only on the day the car increases boost to 1 bar and RPM 7200 does it fail?

[np89]

Yes I just looked up the main bearings UPC number on the MAHLE website LINK and the part number on the site says - View product: MS-2014A

 

But my bearings are NDC M2-1434-L

At least if you can confirm that the correct bearings were supplied under license from clevite you have a case to go back to your builder/machine shop (if they are indeed the same), but having been down this road myself in a similar situation i can foresee their immediate response. Could get very difficult for you!

 

Such a shame you are having no luck with this car at all mate

 

 

[Chris Wilson]

Yes I just looked up the main bearings UPC number on the MAHLE website LINK and the part number on the site says - View product: MS-2014A

 

But my bearings are NDC M2-1434-L

 

 

MS-2014A are single material, aluminium alloy shells, and are not for high performance applications. MS-2014HX are tri metal, and for high loads.

[np89]

MS-2014A are single material, aluminium alloy shells, and are not for high performance applications. MS-2014HX are tri metal, and for high loads.

I wonder how does that map to what he was supplied with.

 

 

[Brazil]

MS-2014A are single material, aluminium alloy shells, and are not for high performance applications. MS-2014HX are tri metal, and for high loads.

 

I wonder how does that map to what he was supplied with.

 

/QUOTE]

 

I just had confirmation that both the end bearings and rod bearings from another supplier that both purchase from Titan motor sports have the same ID - So Clevite are packaging NDC bearings as there's and nobody has had any issues.

Edited October 26, 2016 by Brazil (see edit history)

[np89]

I just had confirmation that both the end bearings and rod bearings from another supplier that both purchase from Titan motor sports have the same ID - So Clevite are packaging NDT bearings as there's and nobody has had any issues.

If you could get that in writing from clevite themselves you would have a strong case to return to your engine builder with

 

 

[Brazil]

Additional information - The engine builders when stripped the engine said the crank would not turn freely the bearings were gripping on crankshaft.

[np89]

Additional information - The engine builders when stripped the engine said the crank would not turn freely the bearings were gripping on crankshaft.

This happened with mine when my engine was sent to be dismantled. The crank was seized in the block. It wouldn't turn even with a 3 ft bar on the crank nut. It was apparently due to the big end bearing caps being installed incorrectly some were super tight on the crank and others were loose as a goose. Could be the reason your bearings have failed..... i guess, I am no expert on that but something to think about. Maybe someone more knowledgeable could shed a bit more light on that particular scenario.

 

 

 

[Brazil]

This happened with mine when my engine was sent to be dismantled. The crank was seized in the block. It wouldn't turn even with a 3 ft bar on the crank nut. It was apparently due to the big end bearing caps being installed incorrectly some were super tight on the crank and others were loose as a goose. Could be the reason your bearings have failed..... i guess, I am no expert on that but something to think about. Maybe someone more knowledgeable could shed a bit more light on that particular scenario.

 

 

/QUOTE]

 

 

Did your car successfully perform run in miles?

 

if so how many miles?

 

When did you first notice the problem?

 

What was the RPM?

 

Did you notice lower oil pressure straight afterwards?

[np89]

Did your car successfully perform run in miles?

 

if so how many miles?

 

When did you first notice the problem?

 

What was the RPM?

 

Did you notice lower oil pressure straight afterwards?

Well it should be noted that this was an issue when my engine failed. I had never really done alot of miles in my car from i bought it and it had a shady history at best before I did. My engine needed rebuilt after a mechanic doing some work made a bit of a silly mistake with it. And my main bearing caps were removed for inspection. After that was when my crank seized although not whilst running thank god!

 

Since my engine has been rebuilt (with clevite bearings from whifbitz i may add), I have had no issues whatsoever. My engine makes 9 or 10bar oil pressure on cold start up (im told) and has no issues at all. I've done a little over 1000miles with it now running wastegate pressure at 0.6bar and it just keeps getting better and better - not to sound smug!