Turbo lag, is it such a big deal?

[martini]

I guess stock TTs are better than singles purely at the lower range?

Edited February 7, 2010 by martini (see edit history)

[j_jza80]

Is there any point/gain in revving to 8k? Wont you need better valve springs? Gas flowing?

Im with tooquick, big turbo and a stroker kit

 

Stroker stops it from being a stock engine, although the extra displacement will help with spooling a bigger turbo.

 

A raised rev limit can increase the power band on a bigger turbo.

[JamieP]

Is a true 1000 bhp possible on BP pump fuel and a 3 litre stock engine ?

 

I dont think it is tbh, but you may get very close and a few litres of xylene will see it im sure, Paul did 850bhp on pump fuel.

[Ian C]

Thoughts. We now have better engine management systems, diagnostic gear, and experience. Back in the day, 1.4bar was safe on pump fuel with no timing adjustment. That was when you either went for a ruinously expensive standalone and got shafted with the mapping or you ran an Apexi AFC with no timing adjustment. Or the Apexi ITC that was out of production even then and had about three load sites.

 

With Ryan at the helm of a Solaris, it's comparing fire to fusion. Enjoy your higher boost

 

As for lag, well, different driving styles for different people. Some people like murdering the car through the gears at every opportunity while others find that style rather tiring and just enjoy a good shove of torque at 3000rpm. Neither person is "right".

 

So if you want more boost and more revs and realise that it will at some point let go spectacularly, more power to you sir. We can live vicariously through your dreams, your wallet, and your conrod can leave through your block

 

-Ian

[tooquicktostop]

I dont think it is tbh, but you may get very close and a few litres of xylene will see it im sure, Paul did 850bhp on pump fuel.

 

Yeh I agree, when TDI were mapping my R32 they were at 1.8 BAR and seeing no extra gain with more boost at 735BHP, they told me it was not really safe to go on with 97 ron fuel, xylene would have given the added protection to go further but at the time I did not fancy a race fuel map as I did not see me ever using at and TDI mapping time was very expensive at the end of a very expensive build !

 

I think a different car maybe in order for the really big BHP you crave, but then I know you love the Supra, perhaps fitting a big V8 supercharged would be something to think about, not really a road car then though !

[JamieP]

Thoughts. We now have better engine management systems, diagnostic gear, and experience. Back in the day, 1.4bar was safe on pump fuel with no timing adjustment. That was when you either went for a ruinously expensive standalone and got shafted with the mapping or you ran an Apexi AFC with no timing adjustment. Or the Apexi ITC that was out of production even then and had about three load sites.

 

With Ryan at the helm of a Solaris, it's comparing fire to fusion. Enjoy your higher boost

 

As for lag, well, different driving styles for different people. Some people like murdering the car through the gears at every opportunity while others find that style rather tiring and just enjoy a good shove of torque at 3000rpm. Neither person is "right".

 

So if you want more boost and more revs and realise that it will at some point let go spectacularly, more power to you sir. We can live vicariously through your dreams, your wallet, and your conrod can leave through your block

 

-Ian

 

I look forward to everyone telling me "told you so";)

[EdMorris]

Not having or had a turbo supra probably discounts me from this thread, but I have had a turbo car. Ok it was a Renault 5, so totally different ball game, but I do remember being frustrated with the lag sometimes. I want power from the moment I roll the throttle, just like on my bike - instant. When I pick my point to accelerate I want to do just that, not wait a second or two before the power comes in. I think it makes for a more predictable and enjoyable driving experience. Just my opinion and two pennies worth.

[dude]

Thoughts. We now have better engine management systems, diagnostic gear, and experience. Back in the day, 1.4bar was safe on pump fuel with no timing adjustment. That was when you either went for a ruinously expensive standalone and got shafted with the mapping or you ran an Apexi AFC with no timing adjustment. Or the Apexi ITC that was out of production even then and had about three load sites.

 

With Ryan at the helm of a Solaris, it's comparing fire to fusion. Enjoy your higher boost

 

As for lag, well, different driving styles for different people. Some people like murdering the car through the gears at every opportunity while others find that style rather tiring and just enjoy a good shove of torque at 3000rpm. Neither person is "right".

 

So if you want more boost and more revs and realise that it will at some point let go spectacularly, more power to you sir. We can live vicariously through your dreams, your wallet, and your conrod can leave through your block

 

-Ian

 

Or an HKS F-Con pro that we had no probs with 1.8 bar on pump fuel with my 76 DBB;) not bad for an old dinosaur, it also starts and idles like a stock car on 1200cc inj and made 1.2 bar of boost on the line at the Pod, the yanks are way ahead of us they have been doing this for years. Go for it J

[hodge]

Well I'm game if you are Jamie. I quite like abit lag TBH. It's the nothing, nothing and OOHH Foooook factor ain't it.

 

I've always said if the car doesn't get smashed all over everytime you drive it I think it's gona survive just fine.

[Ian C]

Or an HKS F-Con pro that we had no probs with 1.8 bar on pump fuel with my 76 DBB;) not bad for an old dinosaur, it also starts and idles like a stock car on 1200cc inj and made 1.2 bar of boost on the line at the Pod, the yanks are way ahead of us they have been doing this for years. Go for it J

 

I thought you ran the AFC/ITC combo? Blowing the odd tip off the sparkplug now and again

 

The F-Con had issues with 'unlocking' and who could/couldn't map it, didn't it?

 

I'm not criticising your setup back then, I'm just saying now it's a lot more achievable and durable due to the gear and experience in the community.

[Ian C]

I look forward to everyone telling me "told you so";)

 

I'm not in it for that, I know you know the risks I save my "I told you so's" for people who run single turbos on stock fuel and ECU

[j_jza80]

Paul did 850bhp on pump fuel.

 

Was that with or without a stroker?

[Guest Usmann A]

stock engine did 740hp w/690 ft/lb torque at the hubs at 2.15bar on race fuel, 74mm turbo, rod bolt failure, spat it out the side. ooo the faces at abbey back in the day.

 

that is my experience of it. go for it,

[JamieP]

 

How do you think the car will cope with another 200-300hp hike though? Surely the diff, drive shafts etc would have to be considered consumables with another great hike in torque?

 

I think it will be fine but i have been saving for this day just incase.

In the shed i have

 

3x TT6 diffs

1x TT6 facelift diff

3x auto TT diff

3x props

 

 

Was that with or without a stroker?

 

yup stroker, i plan on building my current engine to 3.4 at some stage.

 

stock engine did 740hp w/690 ft/lb torque at the hubs at 2.15bar on race fuel, 74mm turbo, rod bolt failure, spat it out the side. ooo the faces at abbey back in the day.

 

that is my experience of it. go for it,

 

Thats not what i want to hear.

Edited February 3, 2010 by JamieP (see edit history)

[miko_supra]

I think it will be fine but i have been saving for this day just incase.

In the shed i have

3x TT6 diffs

1x TT6 facelift diff

3x auto TT diff

3x props

 

 

 

yup stroker, i plan on building my current engine to 3.4 at some stage.

 

 

 

Thats what i want to hear:cool:

 

What! That's absurd.

[JamieP]

And before anyone asks, no im not selling any of the TT6 stuff, im not getting caught out like last time:)

[Guest Usmann A]

its not something you want to see either. especially if you built her.

[Chris Wilson]

Fatigue is often as big a killer of engines as dramatic immediate failure. Lots of track days at a fairly modest rev limit without a rebuild equalled this end for my last Skyline engine, classic rod bolt failure:

 

http://www.gatesgarth.com/bang/bang.html

[JamieP]

its not something you want to see either. especially if you built her.

 

Something like this?

 

http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?t=195345&highlight=vase

 

 

Fatigue is often as big a killer of engines as dramatic immediate failure. Lots of track days at a fairly modest rev limit without a rebuild equalled this end for my last Skyline engine, classic rod bolt failure:

 

http://www.gatesgarth.com/bang/bang.html

 

Nasty, ok you lot are putting me off now, might just raise the limit to 7400rpm.

[Nic]

You learn to adapt your driving around the turbo lag. I use to run TTC stock turbos as I preferred the linear power delivery of the turbos, but I was always conscious when driving that I needed to keep in a lower gear at higher rpms as you didn't get much 'oomph' until around 3500rpm.

 

I then fitted the Garrett GT35R and had to re-adapted my driving style to the new power delivery. I now got positive boost at 2k rpm and by 4k rpm just less than 400hp, peaking to around 540hp by the 7k rpm rev limit. For me this was the perfect street setup as it didn't matter what gear I was in I would always get instant response when I put my foot down. Basically the only time I experienced turbo lag was when pulling away from a stand still.

Edited February 3, 2010 by Nic (see edit history)

[jevansio]

Maybe the increase in vpower to 99ron is helping in pushing further these days.

 

The only thing I'd say is that you came from a T88 which you thought was too laggy down to a 4088, which kept you happy for a while, and now are climbing the turbo ladder again.

 

Do you think that maybe it's that fact you become "bored" with a setup & it's the "change" rather than the specific setup you go to that keeps you interested?

 

In summary, you need more Supras

[miko_supra]

When over taking or racing you're always going to be dropping it down a cog any way whether its n/a, TT, or single. As said it seams only an issue for daily drivers who want a nice all round car for cruising/pootling/spirited.

[hodge]

And before anyone asks, no im not selling any of the TT6 stuff, im not getting caught out like last time:)

 

Well I am gona need a Diff soon LOL.

[JamieP]

Maybe the increase in vpower to 99ron is helping in pushing further these days.

 

The only thing I'd say is that you came from a T88 which you thought was too laggy down to a 4088, which kept you happy for a while, and now are climbing the turbo ladder again.

 

Do you think that maybe it's that fact you become "bored" with a setup & it's the "change" rather than the specific setup you go to that keeps you interested?

 

In summary, you need more Supras

 

I always liked the T88 tbh, i never really felt it was that laggy, a new turbo rated to a similar bhp would be a lot better though.

 

Ive done the fast spooling for so long im a bit bored of it now, im not talking of going mad with a turbo, maybe a T71 billet or one of the new BW turbos for 850bhp, i could easily handle losing 500-1000rpm off my spool time and still be happy.

 

T88, ahh the memories:d

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hH53JhzMBo

[miko_supra]

I always liked the T88 tbh, i never really felt it was that laggy, a new turbo rated to a similar bhp would be a lot better though.

 

Ive done the fast spooling for so long im a bit bored of it now, im not talking of going mad with a turbo, maybe a T71 billet or one of the new BW turbos for 850bhp, i could easily handle losing 500-1000rpm off my spool time and still be happy.

 

T88, ahh the memories:d

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hH53JhzMBo

 

I'm surprised I've never spotted you on that road. It's on one of my spirited routes. I like following it all the way down to Gore hill and blasting up there.