Kirk Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 Question does come to mind as to why go with a staggered cam setup rather than matching cams.. Never realy understood as to why go with a higher lift exhaust cam, i mean does it actualy make that much of a difference ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2 MSW Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 ive seen the thread on SF about the reverse stagger and that made no difference at all and was the one thing that made me stay away from it as it had a negative impact. As for the staggared fitment I guess time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 Ian C also tested reverse staggered setup over here as well, he datalogged the results, if you search you should find the info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted February 4, 2010 Author Share Posted February 4, 2010 What cam setup have you gone with Mike? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2 MSW Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 HKS 264/272 Stagger May make the idle a little lumpy but im not bothered about that. It rarely goes out on the road as it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 Is it not due to the intake ports being smaller than the exhaust ports? Or vice versa? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 I was actualy thinking more along the lines of the bigger cam gives stronger exhaust pulses or am i getting this mixed up with something else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelboyne Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 Sounds like good power, the GT4294 is 71mm also aint it? how about garret gtx 4294r think this is the billet version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted February 4, 2010 Author Share Posted February 4, 2010 (edited) how about garret gtx 4294r think this is the billet version. Andrew is running the "R", its not billet, just DBB. EDIT, sorry missed you said GTX, yes GTX is billet. Edited February 4, 2010 by JamieP (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 For me it's all about matching the parts choice and turbo to your desired power band. Peak BHP is a meaningless figure, it's all about power delivery. Jamie for exmaple drives the car hard and seems to spend most of the time in the top third of the engine rpm and makes full use of the power available. This suits a larger turbo, higher lift cams, lots of fueling, high end ECU, etc to get the most amount of power in that rpm band. My driving style (and that of a few others) is very different. I don't drive the car hard and love having a large amount of low/mid range torque. It's more about having effortless power at lower range. As such the T67dbb setup with stock cams and decent fueling and ECU was perfectly matched to my driving style. I wouldn't want to sacrifice that low end torque for a more powerful high end as 99% of my time behind the wheel would not be spent in that high rpm band. I understand fully why some people like Jamie would prefer a larger turbo setup and a more peaky power band, but it's not for everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous brain Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 For me it's all about matching the parts choice and turbo to your desired power band. Peak BHP is a meaningless figure, it's all about power delivery. Jamie for exmaple drives the car hard and seems to spend most of the time in the top third of the engine rpm and makes full use of the power available. This suits a larger turbo, higher lift cams, lots of fueling, high end ECU, etc to get the most amount of power in that rpm band. My driving style (and that of a few others) is very different. I don't drive the car hard and love having a large amount of low/mid range torque. It's more about having effortless power at lower range. As such the T67dbb setup with stock cams and decent fueling and ECU was perfectly matched to my driving style. I wouldn't want to sacrifice that low end torque for a a more powerful high end as 99% of my time behind the wheel would not be spent in that high rpm band. I understand fully why some people like Jamie would prefer a larger turbo setup and a more peaky power band, but it's not for everyone. I'd empathise with that. I am soo not enjoying the drive of my T67 in comparison to my old supra with BPU as far as it could go. With mine being an auto and now back on a stock ecu not even gear selectable any more keeping the car on the power is very difficult without thrashing the living hell out of it. The gear ranges are way too long to stay in the power band especially at road legal speeds. When you belt off the line and keep your foot down the power is awesome and relentless and just keeps coming. The moment you come off the pedal its gone and there is that annoying up change into an innapropriatte gear with revs drop off and a woefully slow resumption of power. Its infuriating when you accelerate to overtake a car, the power comes in and you start to catch the car in front ready to pull out when the oncoming vehicle has passed only for the oncoming car to have slowed or miss-judged timing and you have to lift off the gas even momentarily. You come out into the overtake maneuovre with no bloody boost and the wrong frickin gear until it kicks down and the boost builds back up again. I've had it a couple of times where it didn't bother kicking down and that was awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted February 4, 2010 Author Share Posted February 4, 2010 I'd empathise with that. I am soo not enjoying the drive of my T67 in comparison to my old supra with BPU as far as it could go. With mine being an auto and now back on a stock ecu not even gear selectable any more keeping the car on the power is very difficult without thrashing the living hell out of it. The gear ranges are way too long to stay in the power band especially at road legal speeds. When you belt off the line and keep your foot down the power is awesome and relentless and just keeps coming. The moment you come off the pedal its gone and there is that annoying up change into an innapropriatte gear with revs drop off and a woefully slow resumption of power. Its infuriating when you accelerate to overtake a car, the power comes in and you start to catch the car in front ready to pull out when the oncoming vehicle has passed only for the oncoming car to have slowed or miss-judged timing and you have to lift off the gas even momentarily. You come out into the overtake maneuovre with no bloody boost and the wrong frickin gear until it kicks down and the boost builds back up again. I've had it a couple of times where it didn't bother kicking down and that was awful. Thats just a bad setup, Gamers orange beast was a awesome car on the auto box and that was with a 71mm turbo, was nothing like what you are saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooquicktostop Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 For me it's all about matching the parts choice and turbo to your desired power band. Peak BHP is a meaningless figure, it's all about power delivery. Jamie for exmaple drives the car hard and seems to spend most of the time in the top third of the engine rpm and makes full use of the power available. This suits a larger turbo, higher lift cams, lots of fueling, high end ECU, etc to get the most amount of power in that rpm band. My driving style (and that of a few others) is very different. I don't drive the car hard and love having a large amount of low/mid range torque. It's more about having effortless power at lower range. As such the T67dbb setup with stock cams and decent fueling and ECU was perfectly matched to my driving style. I wouldn't want to sacrifice that low end torque for a a more powerful high end as 99% of my time behind the wheel would not be spent in that high rpm band. I understand fully why some people like Jamie would prefer a larger turbo setup and a more peaky power band, but it's not for everyone. Could be one of the best posts I have read and should be read by anyone wanting to chase the BHP monster and looking to spend the tens of thousands a good single car can cost I have chased big BHP, seen stupid road power well over 700BHP BUT I have to say I drive like miss daisy most of the time and only wanted the cudos of a big UK BHP car, the power once I started getting to 500+ used to scare me half the time,my driving skill was just not really up to it if I am honest, I think this is a factor when you are looking for a quick car, I found that the BPU Supra is the perfect compromise, quick, fast spool, reliable and easy to live with I love big BHP power cars but I dont see me really doing it again (have owned several single turbo cars),I fancy low end torque from a V8 Still very interested in the quest for power and what a 3 litre engine can deliver, I have to say I am also a little sad not to be involved but that is soon forgotten with the thought of the expense in the past Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 Could be one of the best posts I have read and should be read by anyone wanting to chase the BHP monster and looking to spend the tens of thousands a good single car can cost Thanks mate, with this thread I was getting worried that the single turbo FAQ I'm working on would be a waste of time. It's 6 pages so far am only scratching the surface of the considerations. I'll certainly take into account a few of the comments made here though, there are some very valid ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 For me it's all about matching the parts choice and turbo to your desired power band. Peak BHP is a meaningless figure, it's all about power delivery. Jamie for exmaple drives the car hard and seems to spend most of the time in the top third of the engine rpm and makes full use of the power available. This suits a larger turbo, higher lift cams, lots of fueling, high end ECU, etc to get the most amount of power in that rpm band. My driving style (and that of a few others) is very different. I don't drive the car hard and love having a large amount of low/mid range torque. It's more about having effortless power at lower range. As such the T67dbb setup with stock cams and decent fueling and ECU was perfectly matched to my driving style. I wouldn't want to sacrifice that low end torque for a a more powerful high end as 99% of my time behind the wheel would not be spent in that high rpm band. I understand fully why some people like Jamie would prefer a larger turbo setup and a more peaky power band, but it's not for everyone. Top post mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted February 4, 2010 Author Share Posted February 4, 2010 My driving style (and that of a few others) is very different. I don't drive the car hard and love having a large amount of low/mid range torque. It's more about having effortless power at lower range. As such the T67dbb setup with stock cams and decent fueling and ECU was perfectly matched to my driving style. I wouldn't want to sacrifice that low end torque for a a more powerful high end as 99% of my time behind the wheel would not be spent in that high rpm band. I understand fully why some people like Jamie would prefer a larger turbo setup and a more peaky power band, but it's not for everyone. Good post, as you say everyone wants something different from there car. As you know my car has plenty of low/mid range torque, thing is i dont really use it, i either drive slowly, and im nowhere near using the midrange, or i want to go for it and im way past the midrange. Im not saying i want a laggy car, but to lose a little spool for a lot more top end sounds good to me. Saying all that though, with a little more revs i may max out pump fuel and the turbo and have my perfect setup already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 For me this was the perfect street setup as it didn't matter what gear I was in I would always get instant response when I put my foot down. Basically the only time I experienced turbo lag was when pulling away from a stand still. For me too......plenty of torque and not that noticeable lag at all. Revving the crap out of the car in every gear is not something that I do on busy public roads. for a street setup, reducing lag is extremely important - IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny g Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 Completely agree with Homer there. When I was choosing the turbo for my MR2 V6 project, that was totally the rational behind it. I sampled a few turbos, namely Jay's 4088r on the 3l. I had 400c more to play with and went one size bigger. I wanted the low end torque and driveability, instant power, effortless overtake the lot. Horses for courses! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 Saying all that though, with a little more revs i may max out pump fuel and the turbo and have my perfect setup already. Are you able to get a compressor map for your turbo and see what they flow like at say 2.5bar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted February 4, 2010 Author Share Posted February 4, 2010 Are you able to get a compressor map for your turbo and see what they flow like at say 2.5bar Whats the point though? i very much doubt pump fuel will get anywhere near 2.5bar without a very drastic reduce in timing, i doubt power would go up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny g Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 Whats the point though? i very much doubt pump fuel will get anywhere near 2.5bar without a very drastic reduce in timing, i doubt power would go up. What if you drop the CR down to something around 8:1? You'll lose off boost, but you'll get more top end boost, which is what you're after? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 Whats the point though? i very much doubt pump fuel will get anywhere near 2.5bar without a very drastic reduce in timing, i doubt power would go up. I am curious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 What if you drop the CR down to something around 8:1? You'll lose off boost, but you'll get more top end boost, which is what you're after? Like the old cossies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny g Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 Like the old cossies Is that a shameless plug for your Cossie piston group buy lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted February 4, 2010 Author Share Posted February 4, 2010 What if you drop the CR down to something around 8:1? You'll lose off boost, but you'll get more top end boost, which is what you're after? Id not want to drive a supra with lower compression than stock tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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