extendor

Its ironic that you have the ability to say this because others whinged in the past for rights everyone enjoys. I expect that all these whinging revolutionaries are saying is that they did not believe the response of certain police officers was proportionate to the level of threat posed and that now those officers have to justify their individual response.

We had a strange letter in the local paper this week. It might be worth doing the same where you are. One eagle eyed resident had spotted a lot more missing cat posters going up in our area and he asked the question if this was a coincidence or someone actually stealing cats. I have not seen any replies yet but I will let you know if anything comes of his enquiry. best wishes for a quick return btw

70 claims of excessive force by alleged victims or witnesses to brutality!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FFS Even if only 10% are valid it is a very poor state of affairs and certainly something the police need to address urgently.

I think people feel a little bit more empowered to say what they feel and I suspect a few bad apples out there might think twice about how they behave. I will follow this closely to the end and TBH I am wary of a cover up and all the usual plattitudes which will inevitably follow. But one thing is for certain and that is the army of video cameras out there will keep everyone on their toes. Surveillance is a double edged sword. It also watches the watchers.

Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Paul Stephenson has also asked Her Majesty's Chief Inspector of Constabulary (HMIC) to review policing tactics. The reasons quoted are the volume of complaints made by the public about the actions and tactics of the police service during the policing of the G20 demonstrations. Read full article here http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8000246.stm But basically this seems to be drawing to a close with a good result IMO

did she, would he, could they, lets play twenty guesses. All I know (and that is enough) is what I saw on the vids. Everything else is conjecture and not a reason or are we talking pre emptive policing. How far a stretch is that away from calling every man a rapist because they have the equipment to be a rapist.

Excellent point Creative. Its a two sided coin. In some respects you could identify the uniform of a rogue by their desire to hide their identity. I hate to draw a parellel to your point but we must also consider that the copper who belted Mr Tomlinson also disguised his face and his shoulder number was missing. Is that not the same as the images you have selected. As for the coppers who got hurt. I despise the people that did that. The coin does have two sides and it is not acceptable to do that to anyone - in uniform or not.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/4/20090414/...e-49bfa63.html

It does not. I never said that and would NEVER condone that either. Peaceful protest is one thing but acts of violence (from whichever side) are abhorrent.

If they were on the march and intent on expressing their opinion in a law adiding way why would you want to oppress them. Personally I think you should applaud them for at least getting off their behinds and taking part in politics. More people need to get involved IMO Without people getting involved we have a dictatorship and not a democracy.

"Well how about keeping your points to those 'certain members' and not going casting wild accusations about the majority, that time and again put their safety and lives on the line for the people of this country." Well said. Of course it can be galling to have everyone tarred with the same brush. Almost the same as saying because that person was in the crowd they are a troublemaker. I would also like to add on the point about Dredd. You pointed this forum to another forum frequented by police officers after that attack on the girl in the Seattle police station. I read the particular thread you pointed us to and it was disgusting. Serving police officers saying what they would have done/liked to have done if the camera was not there. Having also read about tactical officers in the press allegedly routinely swapping shoulder numbers to disguise themselves in case of any trouble does not show the police as a whole in a very good light. Yes it is down to a few, as it always is but at the end of the day we need the police and they need the public trust. You mentioned what is my big plan. Its easy. Its starts with the rank and file police themselves not tolerating such behaviour and being seen to come out against such actions on the basis of being a member of society first and a policeman second.

Are you saying these are not Home Office Approved Tactics? I believe the officers have to account for the force they use and in my opinion based on the video I have seen both officers attacked people using unreasonable force. You are familiar with Judge Dredd I assume. Basically he was responsible for seeing the law carried out. He is a fictional mobile judge, jury and when needed executioner. In this country we have a different system. The policeman takes the law breaker to a trial of his peers and they judge him and the judge sets the sentence. Now you say why would a policeman not be an executioner. If you give a person a stick and say use that with reasonable force then he will use it rightly or wrongly as he sees fit. If he gets caught for doing something wrong with that stick its too late, he has still used it in anger or frustration or just because he got a kick out of it. Now give that same person a gun and the same rules. What would happen. Maybe some scrotes deserve to die in his opinion in the same way some women and men deserve a good thrashing to the ground with a stick. What stops that person from doing that. Training or personality or fear of reprisal or just plain good old professionalism. Onto your last point. Don’t get me started about the reckless and feckless in our society. I know as well as you do all about these issues but the fact is this topic is about certain members of the police force. I also think it is important to say again ‘certain members of the police force’.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/4/20090414/video/vuk-new-video-footage-exposes-g20-police-49bfa63.html Seems like another police officer has shown how tough he is. This time its hitting a woman literally half his size with a stick across the legs and causing her to fall over. I suppose at least this time he was provoked by her standing in front of him. The more I read of this and the more I learn about the training of the police and their home office approved tactics the more obvious it becomes that the police see themselves as Judge Dredd. Shortly they will be judge jury and executioner. If you give them guns then the latter will most certainly be the case. Society has to say enough is enough and the police have to show they have some control over themselves.

I would hope they are just being thorough. A coppers career, the publics trust of the police and the cause (contributory) of a man's death are in the balance. One very unsettling thing I did read over the weekend was that TSG officers have been known to swap shoulder numbers prior to going into these sorts of situations so they can argue mistaken identity if accused by a member of public (endearingly called MOP). At least this officer did not have a shoulder number (or his face visible) so it looks like he is in trouble for that at the very least.

Is there an excuse for a police officer coming up behind a member of the public and clobbering them. If there is then I would like to discuss those reasons and the circumstances for that to be acceptable in the context of the video we have all seen.

We dont know the whole story but we do know he was walking away from someone who is supposed to be charged with upholding the law and who for whatever reason then belted the bloke across the back of the legs and proceded to push him down. If I had done that to any of you I would expect any mitigation I offered in court to be unacceptable and then the full weight of the law would apply for a cowardly and brutal assault.

"as if he was trying to wind them up" does not actually say what you listed A - D but it does smack of condoning them getting their own back like kids in a playground and running and whacking him from behind. Did you keep it deliberately vague so you did not have to come down on one side of the fence or the other. Do you support the action of the plod or are you against it. I would be interested to hear whether or not the police training manual (or whetever it is) states that belting someone from behind for walking nonchalantly is an accepted tactics. I can see the wider implications, can you? Discuss.

Get real. Its just like the vid of the young girl in Seattle getting a hammering for nonchalantly kicking her shoes off outside the cell. This is ourageous. The police are not there to be bullies or to make the law. They are there to uphold the law and that bloke was walking along the street away from the plod, keeping quite and not walking in a provocative manner (for what difference that would make anyway) with his hands in his pockets. He was attacked from behind by a thug. I hope that officer loses his job and it makes the others inclined to act in that manner to think hard about it. As soon as the average man on the street has no respect for the police then we have nothing left as a society. It will be a vigilante state where it is everyman for himself. The police have got to keep the respect of the public and this officer MUST be sacked and prosecuted for ABH. I would even contribute to the costs of a private prosecution if it ever came to it.

Yeah yeah yeah, unless he is as wide as a barn door he does not need to move 2m in any direction. At worst he only needs to to move 0.3m so he has loads of time. Anyone who has shot a rifle knows this anyway.

Given that light travel faster than bullets so long as the bullet has to travel far enough to create enough elapsed time for the flash to regsiter and you to move enough then you can dodge it. A miss by 1mm is still enough so all you have to do is move enough to miss by 1mm. Obviously a narrower target area needs less time to clear the trajectory if the target moves laterally. A shorter target similarly if the traget moves vertically. etc etc. As others have said for it to be a wothwhile question it need some factors to influence the outcome.

I wonder what would have happened if that copper had a gun. Thank heavens we don't routinely arm our police. For some the power trip is too much to handle - obviously.

No but their wallet does if they try to insure it. How many young drivers actually declare their mods? They are acting irresponsibly if they dont because the insurer could fail to pay if they have an accident.

I agree with you quite strongly. Visits can be a powerful reminder of the tragedy and therefore a good thing. It puts scale on things which never comes across from the pages of a book or a TV screen. There is a lot to be said for hearing the silence and feeling the emptiness in these places.

I too am raising public awareness but about a different and equally important matter. I dont recall any of the pics or text from the original post said anything about the long term implications. It is implied but easily forgotten. I agree with your arguement and I would hate anyone to see it as a 'theme park' but undoubtedly some will. I can't help that. Its the same reason people slow down at accidents. For anyone interested this is the sort of thing that happens down here for the kids. They get to go on the beach, go to the Circus, Fairs etc. They reckon a months holiday away from all the crap at home adds two years life span to these kids. http://www.thisissouthdevon.co.uk/news/Appeal-holiday-hostsarticle-457640-details/article.html

We do, the host families come to S. Devon and it is in our local papers and Church pamphlets quite a bit. The Churches help the host families out and a fair number of people get involved. I can see the attraction of going there but not as a 'theme park' visitor. That does not sit right with me for some reason.