extendor

Great fun, great characters but there do seem to be some better builders out there. For what its worth IMO the OCC guys are enthusiastic kit assemblers and dressers. They buy too much off the shelf kit and just razzle dazzle it up with a theme. However, it does make good TV and I do like watching it.

http://www.fjrforum.com/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t6135.html Check it out. Seems like the OCC boys spent a lot of cash and created a dog.

Hmmmm, debating the value of life seems like the thin end of the wedge. Who commits the worse crime, the Nazis exterminating a 'lesser' race or the thug in the street stabbing the middle aged white teacher defending a pupil from attack (just as an example)? Maybe the comparisons are not absolutely accurate but the intent has hopefully come across.

Yes, especially those boys. There are a lot of people out there who die of cancer etc and could have made a better contribution. Imagine if those kids lifes had been reallocated to those whose time was unfairly cut short. Seems a bit unfair that some people never get to reach their true potential and others waste theirs.

Brilliant example of how low we can be as a race. For me the issue is not whether it was an animal or a human but that is was a defeceless creature. In the same way that a new born baby is also a defenceless creature there is no excuse for ANY abuse of any kind. One the one hand I can get all emotional and say any one of hundred and foul excrutiating anger derived penalties but in the cold light of day all I can reasonably come up with is pity for us all. I need to think on this. Who are we and what do we want for ourselves.

We are in danger of getting off topic with the debt thing. Debt is perfectly alright so long as the economy , job security etc are all stable. Debt becomes a problem when salaries are cut, redundancies are made, taxation rises and a whole host of other reasons. Some of these reasons are unavoidable and you have no control over them but things like taxation, your employers business being unviable because of legislation or mass immigration displacing native workers (or whatever drum you bang) are actually things that can be controlled by government policy if there is a national will to do something about it. Things can only change when people want change. Look how sh1t scared the MP's are at present now the public have got their teeth into them over expenses. MP's are suddenly not the all powerful beings they thought they were and people have started to see that they can make a difference. For heavens sake dont drop the ball now people, run with it.

So you are feeling the pinch. Hypothetically speaking is the problem one of over taxation, is your job paying crap money because your employer is over burdened by bureauocrasy/high fuel charges and therefore not making profit. etc etc. You must have some reasons why things are the way they are for you. Identify them for yourselves and see who has a policy that will solve this. You can only find if you look. If you feel that the system is wrong then get active in sorting the system out. Talk to others about how the sytem does not serve you. Be vociferous and active. Get involved because at the end of the day it is your life and you deserve better - don't you?

Surely you can vote based on the things that are important to you and the people you care about. You can never reconcile all the issues so you have to prioritise and compromise. In my own situation I have to balance the need for business against personal preferences. They are not always conducive to each other. BUT I do not turn away from the problem and instead confront and solve it. It takes effort but as has said before - it is the only right you have and you should exercise it. The more I hear about reasons to not vote the more I see it boils down to lazyness. If you have a valid point to make about not voting and have a frustration with how things are then how are you going to change thing. Not one single non voter has come up with any suggestion that gives them a solution about how to change things. What can a non voter do legally to get things changed?

I was once like that so I do understand. I got married, kids, a business, and all the problems came to the fore. I think there will be a time you will care. It might be a twenty four month waiting list for a minor op, cancer care postcode lottery, kids in a crappy school because your preferred school is full, massive tax rises, capital gains on your assetts, being lied to constantly by people who should be dead straight and honest etc etc. And when you do care you will look around and realise you have no other voice than the vote and you will be pi$$ed about that and you will grasp that one opportunity and make it work for you. Or at least I hope you and many others do but for now it is your choice and I respect that. For the intervening period we will act as watch keepers and keep the scoundrels who govern us on their toes.

Good grief, now give us a good reason why not to vote.

When my eldest was a toddler he used to sit in his wheely thing and eat his breakfast whilst the Mrs and I got on with getting dressed and stuff. One morning we were rushing about and the little one was trundling around eating breakfast and I was stood at the table in my pants. I did NOT know it but the lad had snuck up behind me and had his head almost at the point of 'exit' when I let rip. He propmtly threw up and the Mrs called me a dirty bastad.

Absolutely, but do not be afraid to get involved. Many people make the mistake of trying to understand it all. That is impossible and you tie yourself up in knots. It is far easier to take it one step at a time and look at a couple of the big issues in your life or other peoples lives and start there.

If you do not vote you are increasing the chance that the winner represent fewer people. History shows us that a vociferous and charismatic politician can get into power with a very small turnout and turn out to be a wolf in sheeps clothing. Our electoral system is seriously overdue for an overhaul when a no show or a spoiled vote does not count. IMO It is inherently wrong when people can refuse to vote and I believe everyone who is elligible to vote should vote (by law) but have the option of saying NONE OF THE ABOVE. That might factionise politics but it would take away the polarisation we have now and free up debate.

That is another problem isn't it. I once heard my dad say that you could put a chimp up for local election (where we used to live) and so long as he wore a red rose he would get in. I can understand the apathy of it all. It bugs me enormously and I would love to be able to get rid of the whole thieving, self serving mob of them and give some real power back to the man in the street. I have had enough of the politicians in this country and I despair of the way they have ruined it and have taken the spirit of many of us away. This recent debacle with expenses and now a credibility struggle in No10 might be distracting from the real issues of a country in trouble but I am so pleased that it has lit a fire under many people backsides and got them looking at politics as something they can get involved in. IMO the more people who get involved then the more answerable politicians will be.

The system we have allows a very small % of people to vote a party into power. No votes and spoilt votes do not count - its only those people that vote that count. You easily end up with a party in control that did not poll over 50% of the electorate. On one hand you could say the other 50% dont care so they are happy to accept whatever happens but you could also say there is no mandate to have power because the winning party did not achieve a majority based on the population. I am afraid that the former applies therefore if you have no interest you get what comes along. What you deserve is down to you. Do you accept you have no say and therefore desreve whatever happens or do you get involved and make sure you get what you deserve.

Then you get the government you deserve.

100% agree. IMO if you dont vote you have no right to comment in any way shape or form. Voting is the ONLY thing you can legally do in this country now to have your say. Freedom of speach, congregation, passage are all being gradually and insidiously eroded. Do you realise that your vote is trackable. That never used to be the case but it is now. Soon you will lose the right to vote and then what say will you have. Use it or lose it.

Why, dont you have enough money Who wants sloppy seconds?

Nothing wrong with standing on the shoulders of giants that a little bit of humility would not fix.

Doctors hit the spot for me. They seem to forget that other people out there (ahem) are equally as qualified but in their own discipline. I think doctors have a superiority complex and soon forget all they are doing is standing on the shoulders of giants. Lets put it this way, where would a doctor be without all the engineers out there that design and make the equipment they rely upon. Basically back to throwing bones, chanting, looking at the clouds and then reaching for the leaches.

fantastic

Very true. Can see two parked out in the bay now. Huge bloody great things. Lets hope they dont spring a leak or else it will be a real natural disaster on our front doorstep.

Just been looking at a V8 weekend toy for once the aero goes. Real sh1tty mileage and tons and tons of CO2 for feeding the trees. Now thats what I call an environmentally friendly car. If you got the cash what does it matter what you pay. The petrol tax is only a tax on the poor. I thought we were all rich on here. What you moaning about.

Russian Roulette drinking game. One revolver one bullet and one body bag with six shot glasses and one bottle of alcohol (substitute alcohol for any that takes your liking). Could be easily themed as follows. Alcopops - version aimed at troubled teens Bourbon - aimed at rednecks Meths - aimed at down and outs going for one last blast Health and safety would insist on earphones and goggles for the losers (winners?) Hasbro here I come.

I dont think you will ever be able to wear scuffed footwear again. My wifes grandfather is Scots Guards (94 years old) and even now he has the best shoes of anyone I have ever seen. Good luck with the parade.