Na/t. Should you diy it. ?

Hi Dudes, I am an engineer and have worked on boat engines, merc engines, and porsche 911 engines, i did not do any in depth research on the supra mk4 NA/T conversion, i just thought a drive in drive out from a reputable punter was the way to go, and post NA/T this may still be true ?

BUT POST MY CONVERSION I HAVE HAD THE FOLLOWING PROBLEMS :

Very hot oil, 135 deg,C, but this may be the poor quality gauges fitted, my NA/T man was on the case, but no results for 7 days ? new quality gauges were supposed to be posted ?

My clutch is a competition one and un-useable on normal road driving, very agressive and will destroy the gearbox etc, not the type i ordered. When i collected the car they said it would bed in, it was shaking the car and drive train, a joke.

I have the red warning triangle for brake problems, not present pre the NA/T, electrics or software, they disconnected the warning plug from the servo unit ?

My pre NA components have not been returned, and i requested they be put in my car ?

My brake servo and clutch unit are getting too hot, had to make my own baffles.

May be my NA/T man will come up trumps, but no contact for 7 days?

I may need to drive back down 200 miles and wait until all these things are sorted, to be honest, up to date, i have had a good response, but then nothing for 7 days ?

May be a good reason for the situation, holiday, phone broken, e-mail not working, texting not working, etc. ?

I got on well with the NA/T man so i am hoping things are ok ?

It is just frustrating when you have shelled out nearly £3,000 you expect some response. This sum includes train fares due to delays in the conversion and having to put proper oil and coolant back in my car.

I am not a happy bunny,BUT hope that some thing good happens in the near future.?

So should i have gone DIY ? the tech info is available, the parts are available, and most of all you do not need to travel and you can make sure you use the right stuff and the right quality, also, you are on the job, if there are problems. ! ! !

What do you think ? herbiemercman.

People go on holiday, etc. I would give it another week at least, but if someone is running a business, you'd expect an out of office automated response. Good luck getting it sorted.

Who was the "reputable punter"?

In fairness you can't expect these sorts of conversions to be to OE production standards with all the associated R & D involved. I still doubt your oil is getting as hot as your gauge states, so I doubt you have a real issue there. The clutch is the clutch, 95% of cerametallic puck clutches are terrible in road cars. But I don't know of an "asbestos" lined, sprung hub off the shelf clutch for the N/A to W58 combination. My uprated N/A clutch would not be happy with your level of torque. Realistically you have to accept these conversions are never OE and to expect teething issues and maybe some long term aggro now and again.

Should you have DIY'd it?

No, you should have sold it and bought a TT

Should you DIY it? Do you have the skills to to it? If not then theres your answer.

Also, what Chris said.

I wouldn't worry to much mate it will get sorted I'd imagine, I have one of your na-t guys supras and I've had it a year now with not one problem and I know he's a busy guy. I'd see what the oil temp say when you get the new gauges in. Hope you get it sorted soon so you can enjoy the fun.

Bit of a change in mood from this post

http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?326496-Just-seen-quot-my-baby-quot-at-the-doctors-facebook

£3k is £3k but in the scheme of car modding isn't much. Ie an alternative route and it might have bought you a tt engine, but then that's an unknown, would have needed a CW uprated clutch and service bits and labour on top.

Selling the na to get a manual tt would have been even more? You were quite pragmatic about the gearbox going and I think you need to be the same about these teething problems, but it will never be as low maintenance as in na form.

DIY is a great thing if you have, the time, tools, some shelter,homework done, the great thing about diy for me is that you know where everything is so if there are problems you only have yourself to blame, unless the mapper has f**ked things up.

I`m sure you`ll get yours sorted out, also your oil temp isn`t far out without a cooler, its hitting atleast 120 then add another 10/15 for heatsoak for where your sender is mounted, i`d put money on that.

Hi Guys, Your comments have made me take a broader view of things, i think i got a bit brassed off and started negative thoughts, i was on the wrong side of quite a few pints and earlier, before the pints i had a drive to a friends house, the clutch seemed worse than ever and oil at 120 deg.C , so i got a cob on, spit my dummy out.

Anyway it's another day, and apart from no communication for a week from my NA/T man he has been fair and honest, i will try to contact him today.

Hi bignum, Good point about the oil temp high, hope the gauge is faulty?

Hi Scooter, I wanted my own car as it is mint and low mileage from new, the NA/T route was just right, power wise it still is, but the clutch is a joke.

Hi tooquicktostop, That link made me laugh i was on a high when i wrote that.lol.

Hi Chris, I know, "I told you so". lol. Thanks for clutch info, Josh42 on here said he has a street clutch fibre similar to stock comfort and it handles 450 bhp. ?

Hi sidewaysdan, Your comments are reassuring and you have over 12 months experience with the NA/T man's kit. Are auto or manual ?

Hi, bigsupes, Yes he may have been and poss still is on hols.

Hi j-jza80, You can understand i am just keeping my postings "Technical", i get good info in return and also this must help other members etc.

Hi Josh42, Many thanks for clutch info, do you have any further info, manufacturer etc.

Hi Guys, Just had a conversation with my NA/T man, he has been on holiday, so that was why no contact. He has ordered my two gauges and when he gets them he will mail them to me.

The clutch competition stage 4 copper based is the only one that will not start slipping with time and use, he has had to have some cars back to change good quality fibre clutches which had started slipping.

Chris Wilson also supports the clutch technicalities.

So the story goes on, i think i will get there eventually and meanwhile i will try to find a technique for managing my bitch of a clutch.

I will also pm Josh42 to see what clutch he is running in his NA/T, not sure what Chris and my NA/T man will believe this as they are convinced that a softer fibre clutch will not take the torque ?

Mines a auto with a David p box. TT head gasket, freshly built engine and box. Emu ecu and bigger injectors running 19psi and I must say I love it. I had a tt6 before with a hks single conversion and the clutch on that was horrid especially in traffic.

Mines a auto with a David p box. TT head gasket, freshly built engine and box. Emu ecu and bigger injectors running 19psi and I must say I love it. I had a tt6 before with a hks single conversion and the clutch on that was horrid especially in traffic.

What power is your NA-T running ?

Around 550 according to the builder and mapper.

Around 550 according to the builder and mapper.

How much did it cost for the full conversion ? Just curious.

How much did it cost for the full conversion ? Just curious.

It was the docs own car he built for himself. I bought it off him.

Hi sidewaysdan, The thing i like best about driving is being able to change gears , in to bends and out of them, also when overtaking, it's sort of what a true sports car is all about, IMHO, BUT i never realised until post NA/T that a agressive clutch just destroys the operation, i almost do not want to change gear or stop and have to take off again. For this reason i am respecting my NA/T mans experience with variouse clutches, but also looking at what other members are using, like Josh42, who claims to be running a fibre stock feeling clutch, "RPS Max Street Disc", and no probs at 450 lbs/ ft, torque. I also like to look after my machinery and the jerking, grabbing competition clutch will eventually break some thing. The "bottom line" is, if there are no useable clutches for post NA/T cars, then i will learn to live with it.

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I know what you mean mate, I must say I do miss my old car but I don't think my knee would take it now as I busted it a few years back. I never thought I'd buy a auto that's for sure but I love it the gearbox holds the gears really nice and off the line it's insane.

Chris isn't saying that any organic clutch won't hold the power, he is saying that HIS clutch won't.

Here's the clutch I have in mine and have had in mine for 6k+ miles now.

http://www.mvpmotorsports.com/Templates/frmTemplateM7.asp?SubFolderID=780&SearchYN=N

Including track days, a serious amount of time on the dyno and street driving.

Rich.2211 and Rob_SRi have both driven my car and can vouch for it.

The beauty of this clutch is that it uses the factory toyota friction disc and therefore, when worn, replacements are neither expensive or illusive.

I believe I paid ITRO of £300-350 from Tim @ TB developments?

You also have this option:

http://www.garagewhifbitz.co.uk/toyota/supra/clutches-flywheels/spec-clutch-1563.html

Chris isn't saying that any organic clutch won't hold the power, he is saying that HIS clutch won't.

 

Here's the clutch I have in mine and have had in mine for 6k+ miles now.

 

http://www.mvpmotorsports.com/Templates/frmTemplateM7.asp?SubFolderID=780&SearchYN=N

 

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/19/dd39d98f3d206f9abd1925de3e32a677.jpg

 

Including track days, a serious amount of time on the dyno and street driving.

Rich.2211 and Rob_SRi have both driven my car and can vouch for it.

 

The beauty of this clutch is that it uses the factory toyota friction disc and therefore, when worn, replacements are neither expensive or illusive.

 

I believe I paid ITRO of £300-350 from Tim @ TB developments?

So this clutch uses the oem clutch disc?

How does it work as i was under the impression the stock clutch would die in a turbo due to the clutch disc?

Or is it just the pressure disc thats modified to allow the torque increase

Great info Josh, many thanks, not sure why Chris Wilson and my NA/T man say that only the metallic faced clutches, mine is copper, will handle the torque ?

However i will progress your comments as you have actually tried and tested this type of clutch you outline and boy do i need a different clutch, it's not just the driving nightmare but just as important the stress this is putting on my gear train etc.

The clutch i have was £350 so it is not like he was trying to save money ? also he told me categorically that other types of clutches have all slipped and he had to replace them with the metallic copper ones. ?

The adventure goes on, the good news is i just took a fast blast up the road and this car is seriously fast, sort of unlimited power, i have not touched base on the accellerator as i would need to find some where i could do that safely.

The organic stock plate works like it does in my TT clutch at elevated torque figures, by having a cover that clamps it harder. My N/A uprated clutch has a mild upgrade in clamping force, at the time I couldn't find anywhere willing to do a different diaphragm spring with sufficient clamping pressure for turbo N/A's, that would claim a reasonable life for the spring. Their design is complex and took the advice offered. As there seems to be a cover and organic (stock) disc set up available that's known to work i would go with that!

The organic stock plate works like it does in my TT clutch at elevated torque figures, by having a cover that clamps it harder. My N/A uprated clutch has a mild upgrade in clamping force, at the time I couldn't find anywhere willing to do a different diaphragm spring with sufficient clamping pressure for turbo N/A's, that would claim a reasonable life for the spring. Their design is complex and took the advice offered. As there seems to be a cover and organic (stock) disc set up available that's known to work i would go with that!

Great info Chris,

Hi Chris, You are experienced, honest and technical, many thanks for your input. I will see my NA/T man, who has IMHO your qualifications, and try to see what the most cost effective way forward is, as i would have a 400 miles journey to get a clutch change, also a £350 metallic clutch i do not want ?

I also want to point out that Josh42 is a great supporter of this club. herbiemercman.