Muffleman Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 It was for the simple reason it re-used the existing harness...for those that couldn't afford to have a custom lom made to connect to another ECU... Certainly wasn't a consideration when I chose, and I'm sure that me, Dean, Gaz, JamieP and Private Pile (to name just a few) could probably have afforded a loom. I would just like to know more about the possibility my ems failing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaz1 Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 Certainly wasn't a consideration when I chose, and I'm sure that me, Dean, Gaz, JamieP and Private Pile (to name just a few) could probably have afforded a loom. I would just like to know more about the possibility my ems failing. yes me too, also the cost of changing to motec or which ever is the best one:rolleyes: always the same just don,t know who to take advice off as they all just seem to want to sell something regardless of if its the best or not:( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 FWIW then for the future, I'd suggest, =1st - Motec/Autronic (can run vvti's extra funtions, but will need extra mapping time) 3rd HKS Fcon V pro (only cause it's so hard to get a mapper - best for VVTi out of the box, will run ALL features) 4th Apexi PFC - sadly discontinued but did have a 2jz specific version) 5th Link G3 - No experience personally, going by other peoples opinions 6th AEM - just hope you get a reliable one - ones that are working now should continue to...AEM QC seems to be lacking. 7th EMU - Piggyback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolarbag Posted July 5, 2007 Author Share Posted July 5, 2007 Guys the ecu doesnt have an overly massive rate of fails, I would keep it if I could get someone to map it, you might have more confidence in you mapper's now that you have spoken to them, I just dont want the risk, and I'm sorry the way things have went for you's, hope things get sorted quicky! And fwiw guys, the fails where due to installing dodgy parts and bad installations rather than the actual ecu's themselves. But you are right on one thing, we were all influenced in one way or another on this forum, but you have to take the good and the bad, and weigh it up, as Gaz has already said, go with your own instinct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 Some great info in here guys, keep it up. FWIW I would not change my AEM, it does everything I want plus more, I beleive most of the issues are down to support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 Keep your AEMs please, it's difficult enough tracking down a bargain Motec without the AEM brigade all moving alliances Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 The only thing I am not looking forward to with the AEM is the new AEM Tuner software, maybe its because I am use to the current software and see no reason to change it. There was talk a while back of motec doing plug compatible units but so far they are only for a small numbers of motors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muffleman Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 I have had a play with AEMTuner and I guess too I am used to AEMPro. Tuner seems slow to navigate, don't like the way it organises windows etc etc. AEMPro is quick and easy to navigate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 I have had a play with AEMTuner and I guess too I am used to AEMPro. Tuner seems slow to navigate, don't like the way it organises windows etc etc. AEMPro is quick and easy to navigate. My thoughts exactly, I think you need a higher res to view the data properly, my laptop only runs 1024x768 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous brain Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 Lovely eh. I go AEM as its hailed as the proper standalone ECU for the 2JZ rather than the HKS F-con thats fitted to the car only to find out at the last hurdle that it wouldn't actually be wise to rely on it. Dan turner is going to finish off the tune on my aristo straight after JAE to smooth out the more positive gear change as a stock box cannot take that change for long. If I didn't have faith in the guy I wouldn't return. The ECU unit itself though would worry me if theres known failures of them. My car was late for mapping because the first AEM supplied had major faults with it. A second that was fitted to the suppliers car just dumped his map for no reason. So do we stick with the aem and hope for the best? Is there any way of monitoring the injectors to ensure if there is a problem its highlighted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 I would highly recommend Steve Simpson @ TEG He mapped mine and did a very good job, i know he has done a few high power supras on AEM as well, his main business is he maps for alot of the rally teams and flys around the world mapping. Anyway he has a rolling road setup in Carnforth near Lancaster. I have his details if needed Mike Steve's name cropped up when we were having real problems with mapping the RB engine. He does a lot of work for GEM's. He was incredibly helpful, he gave us loads of tec advice over the phone, when AEM USA just lost interest. Very professional. He has mapped a few .net members cars and sorted out a few less than satisfactory;) maps for members too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr keef Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 i keep wandering why the Apexi PFC was discontinued...theres a lot of the skyline and the rex lads using them,apart from it being discontinued whats the downsides of using one of these in a supe?my T51 lands soon and that has one in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkirby Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 Steve's name cropped up when we were having real problems with mapping the RB engine. He does a lot of work for GEM's. He was incredibly helpful, he gave us loads of tec advice over the phone, when AEM USA just lost interest. Very professional. He has mapped a few .net members cars and sorted out a few less than satisfactory;) maps for members too. yeh he is a nice bloke, we had a few issues (not with the AEM) and he was great, let us use all his tools and when we coulndt go any further he just charged me a small amount to cover his costs nothing else. also i think that if you get a couple of units which fail alot of people who maybe dont use or map the ecu's jump on the "its crap" bandwagon, its electronic so now and again something will no doubt go wrong?? but i'm 100000% sure that a motec or a link or an apexi unit has done the same to my knowledge AEM have only ever really had problems with the RB26 crank angle sensor, for some reason its hit or miss whether the ecu likes it or not, in fact some tuning companies are now fitting different sensors to get round this issue, i know a mate of mine got the AEM for his 800 bhp skyline and for some reason it was misfiring badly over 7000 revs, changed the CAS several times but no better so he had to go back to his HKS Fcon BUT on the AEM his car made 50 bhp more than the HKS Fcon!! stupid thing is another car with nead identical spec was 100% fine on the AEM?? Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkirby Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 i keep wandering why the Apexi PFC was discontinued...theres a lot of the skyline and the rex lads using them,apart from it being discontinued whats the downsides of using one of these in a supe?my T51 lands soon and that has one in? possibly down to Apexi going bust?? apart from that its a little basic but perfect for general tuning ie does what it says on the tin. the only bad feed back i have had was from my mapper who said its a good ecu but they did a map on an apexi on a high power scooby then copied the same map across to a GEMS ecu and the car ran better and made more power!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolarbag Posted July 5, 2007 Author Share Posted July 5, 2007 Why is it so hard for a competant tuner to map this, surely if you can tune efi cars, then this cant be too much of a hassle. Is it not just a case of same clowns different environment? I must admit, I'm not quite up to scratch on efi tuning (yet), but programming plc's for a living, once you get your head around the software, assuming its to similar spec, its all really the same. Why is it different when tuning cars, they all need the same foundations dont they? Not mentioning any names, but is it just a case of D:dN not being a competent tuner of efi, giving aem a bad rep or is it the actual ecu, looking at the motec software as opposed to the aem, its quite similar, so you have all the functions, why cant it be mapped to the same standard as expected within the motec community? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 I can supply bare stock Supra ECU sockets and plugs, so anyone handy could make up a plug and play Motec loom, I did this with my Skyline by using bare sockets for its own ECU. Then you just plug the stock harness into the patch lead, and the other end of the patch lead into the Motec ECU. There's very little extra stuff to wire in then. The joy of Motec is it can be software configured to use most any sensor or trigger used as stock on the car. Many other ECU's need bespoke ignition triggers, bespoke amplifiers, temp sensors, blah blah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 I am sure any decent mapper can map the main fuel and ign maps its all the extra features, trims and sensor calibrations that catch people out. With the AEM you can access everything for the one price and there is a lot, unless you spend hours going through the software and playing with it would be impossible to understand it fully. To map for WOT doesnt take long at all, its everything else that makes it a smooth daily driver that takes hours possibly days to get 100% How long do you think Toyota spent getting the stock ECU right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolarbag Posted July 5, 2007 Author Share Posted July 5, 2007 How long do you think Toyota spent getting the stock ECU right? Yeah I understand that it would take ages to get the ecu to perform perfect...if you were doin it from scratch...your not, your emulating a standard that has already been configured through months of r&d, and there are plenty of base maps from guys in the U.S who run this ecu flawlessly. Its just unfortunate that not a lot of tuners in the U.K are willing to work with this e.c.u, there are always malfunctions in electronic hardware, and you will hear more of them the more common they get, they only disadvantage I can see is that the ecu is slightly 'slower' than for example the motec. I would like to know why Ryan G. said 'he would not touch it', when he has motec training and can consistently configure mickey mouse ecu's like the power fc, albeit rather well? I'm not picking arguments here, I would genuinely like to know (other than the fact that the ecu may be faulty, and you would not want the backlash from the customer e.t.c) Is it perhaps that you would be out your comfort zone until you got used to tuning the ecu...which is completely fine to admit. There is no point in offering services to customers if your not fully confident in yourself with said equipment, and better to do a good installation of a car with the required equipment than a bad installation with equipment that could be deemed o.t.t As I said, no disrespect intended at all:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 Wez seems to have been lucky with his AEM ecu, as, as far as I am aware, he's had no reliability issues with the unit itself. There is no way it's in the same league as a Motec, or an EFI Technology ecu though, nor is it in the same price bracket. It seems some people get them working well (on manuals), some don't. You just DO NOT get these issues with Motec, which is why it's the most most used motorsport ecu in the world. Like wheels, pads, clutches and tyres, so many people cut corners with management systems, yet all are vital to the basic well being and success of any modified car. You can't polish a turd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooquicktostop Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 Wez seems to have been lucky with his AEM ecu, as, as far as I am aware, he's had no reliability issues with the unit itself. There is no way it's in the same league as a Motec, or an EFI Technology ecu though, nor is it in the same price bracket. It seems some people get them working well (on manuals), some don't. You just DO NOT get these issues with Motec, which is why it's the most most used motorsport ecu in the world. Like wheels, pads, clutches and tyres, so many people cut corners with management systems, yet all are vital to the basic well being and success of any modified car. You can't polish a turd MMmm that makes me feel much better thanks Chris I wonder if it was an AEM issue then that may have caused my engine failure as the mapper said he did nothing out of the ordinary or unusual Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolarbag Posted July 5, 2007 Author Share Posted July 5, 2007 CW's last post:d Your kinda not getting my point, simply, with this ecu you are given the tools to do the job, more tools than a piggyback, more features than a lot of aftermarket ecu's, Technically I cannot see how this ecu can not be mapped to a similar standard as motec? I my industry, you cannot turn round to a customer and say you get what you pay for, so when we go in to complete a turn key operation with a given spec (sometimes a spec that we have no control over) we have to make do. Now looking at the software, and assuming the ecu is in complete working order, why cant it be mapped safely? Tooquicktostop Do you really believe that your car rose to 1.75bar because of an electronic/software fault...1.6 to 1.75bar before your 'competant' mapper stopped? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 MMmm that makes me feel much better thanks Chris I wonder if it was an AEM issue then that may have caused my engine failure as the mapper said he did nothing out of the ordinary or unusual Something could have broken...at 1.75bar...which he chose to take it to. AEM's quality control and quality of parts is no where near Motec's this is where the differences are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolarbag Posted July 5, 2007 Author Share Posted July 5, 2007 AEM's quality control and quality of parts is no where near Motec's this is where the differences are. Completely agree, and many of the faults were popping up in the change over to the 'new' type units. All I'm saying is I understand the QC is crap, I understand that a few of them are faulty, but for those that aren't faulty(at least 85% of them), they should be capable of holding a decent level of tune. The problem here it seems, is that the ecu is just not consistent, its definitely capable, which is really unfortunate, and may get rectified in the future, but I think I'll be heading to motec for the time being. I've not tried to defend aem at all here, I just wanted to confirm that there are no issues with capability regarding the aem, from looking at folk over in the U.S e.t.c it is definitely a good ecu, we just need more folk to get used to it over here:rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jevansio Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 Like wheels, pads, clutches and tyres, so many people cut corners with management systems yet all are vital to the basic well being and success of any modified car. You can't polish a turd When people use the term 'cutting corners' I take it to mean using low quality cheap parts that they know are sub-quality for the job but will save money, does the AEM fit in that description???. It seems to me as if the attitude here is if it's not Motec then it's no good, that can be said about any car part when compared to the best of it's type, but it doesn't mean that the 2nd or 3rd place parts aren't suitable for the job they're designed to do, my 2p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 Can someone with knowledge of the AEM unit have a look here and tell me how similar the mapping software is to the AEM stuff? Just curious... http://gems.co.uk/products/index.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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