The Best/Decent AEM Mapper in UK?

[jevansio]

Looks very close at first glance from the blurb, even the icons look the same

[Chris Wilson]

When people use the term 'cutting corners' I take it to mean using low quality cheap parts that they know are sub-quality for the job but will save money, does the AEM fit in that description???. It seems to me as if the attitude here is if it's not Motec then it's no good, that can be said about any car part when compared to the best of it's type, but it doesn't mean that the 2nd or 3rd place parts aren't suitable for the job they're designed to do, my 2p

 

All I can say is when I speak to people who make a living working with aftermarket engine ecu's they always say buy a Motec or an EFI Technology unit. Most do not work for either company, they have just found out through experience which give the least hassle and are most likely to give the desired results, with excellent support. My own years of experience with race cars and race engines has taught me to ignore such advice at my peril.

[Chris Wilson]

Is this the same AEM unit you are using?

 

http://gems.co.uk/products/ecus/gems15.php

[SimonB]

I can supply bare stock Supra ECU sockets and plugs, so anyone handy could make up a plug and play Motec loom, I did this with my Skyline by using bare sockets for its own ECU. Then you just plug the stock harness into the patch lead, and the other end of the patch lead into the Motec ECU. There's very little extra stuff to wire in then. The joy of Motec is it can be software configured to use most any sensor or trigger used as stock on the car. Many other ECU's need bespoke ignition triggers, bespoke amplifiers, temp sensors, blah blah.

 

That's exactly what I have. They used one half of a Fields harness I had.

 

I swapped recently from high impedance PE injectors in the stock rail to a top feed rail with low impedance injectors. Not problem with the Motec, just change one value and it runs fine, no need for resistor packs etc. It's great for that sort of thing.

 

The reason mappers tend to stick with mapping one type is I think down to several things. First sometimes they are dealers for that make and therefore want to encourage sales of it. Also, the software and features can be quite different - this won't affect basic fuel and ignition mapping, but things like how you setup the crank and cam position sensors, how you do lamda control and overrun fuel cut etc. If you're not familiar with it you could waste a lot of time trying to figure out what the different parameters do. Also you would have a base map with the basic parameters set up if it's an ECU you have mapped before - this would save a lot of time and you would know it was going to basically work.

 

As for the AEM, it has a pretty bad rep for being unreliable. It's also wasted spark only which is a change to the way the Supras ignition system normally works.

[jevansio]

Not sure, will have to check all the options on that link with what mine provides, at work now so will have to wait till tonight

[Chris Wilson]

That's exactly what I have. They used one half of a Fields harness I had.

 

I swapped recently from high impedance PE injectors in the stock rail to a top feed rail with low impedance injectors. Not problem with the Motec, just change one value and it runs fine, no need for resistor packs etc. It's great for that sort of thing.

 

The reason mappers tend to stick with mapping one type is I think down to several things. First sometimes they are dealers for that make and therefore want to encourage sales of it. Also, the software and features can be quite different - this won't affect basic fuel and ignition mapping, but things like how you setup the crank and cam position sensors, how you do lamda control and overrun fuel cut etc. If you're not familiar with it you could waste a lot of time trying to figure out what the different parameters do. Also you would have a base map with the basic parameters set up if it's an ECU you have mapped before - this would save a lot of time and you would know it was going to basically work.

 

As for the AEM, it has a pretty bad rep for being unreliable. It's also wasted spark only which is a change to the way the Supras ignition system normally works.

 

Who fitted your Motec, Owen Developments? Nice post Simon, all good points.

[dangerous brain]

OK so for us poor unfortunates with an AEM and without the money to go change our minds now whats the best way forwards?

[Chris Wilson]

OK so for us poor unfortunates with an AEM and without the money to go change our minds now whats the best way forwards?

 

Prayer?

[Alex]

Prayer?

 

Harsh!!!

[Chris Wilson]

Seriously, Wez's car runs beautifully, and has to be the best driving single I have been in. So it can be made to work well. I think wez has faced the fact decent maps don't come in a few hours, and there's a lot of blood sweat, tears and money in getting this stuff working properly. I don't pay Swindons 900 plus notes a day `cos I like their coffee You need to be realistic about what modding complex engines costs, sometimes I can see just where a car is going and despite my best efforts people think it can be done cheap AND well, this just doesn't happen I'm afraid, not even on an old A series engine, let alone a 24 valve 6 pot. It's also one of the reasons my race cars have N/A 4 cylinder engines in them, on carbs, with basic ignition only maps. And even they cost a fortune..

[MrHanky]

I am just beginning to look at what to go for when I can eventually go single, and would just like to clarify a few things.

 

I am probably going to go for a PHR Stage 2+. Now my question is, is the Motec at around £1975 inc VAT worth saving for or would a Link plus or Apexi PFC (assuming I could find one) be adequate (and considerably cheaper)?

Is the Motec worth the extra £1k?

 

Thanks

 

Mark

[jevansio]

"Wez's car runs beautifully, and has to be the best driving single I have been in"

 

I'm getting mixed signals here

 

I think it boils down to being happy with which ever ECU you choose, don't worry about it, just get out there and enjoy driving it!

[Wez]

Is this the same AEM unit you are using?

 

http://gems.co.uk/products/ecus/gems15.php

 

Looks like it plus and the software as mentioned before uses the same icons etc, there are even gems dll files which are installed.

[bolarbag]

So to conclude... the aem is a capable ecu, just not reliable?

 

Negative Input from folk on this thread is not factually correct due to never having any experience of the ecu, and is only their opinion, conjured from what other folk, albeit in the industry, have told them?

 

Either Dan or any other aem mapper has not been notified of this thread or either cant be arsed to input any factual details to create any positives?

 

And the aem is basically a GEMS item:D

 

Thus Motec is God?

[Wez]

I thought AEM and GEMS being linked was well known

[suprafan72]

Wez's car is probably a good example to work on.. Yes ECU's are different and we can all say MOTEC's are better in some ways than others... IT all depends what you are happy with.. MY AEM does run well but it wasnt a five minute job.. I closely monitor off boost driving, the cruisablity and off boost driving is about spot on now.. and i can get 30 odd to the gallon "off boost" if i take it easy i.e 85 on the motorway with stoich values of around 14.1 to 14.7 on a cycle..

 

It all depends what you want, Do you want a race car or a fast street car... The same goes down to the choice of turbo and components to support what you want...

[Chris Wilson]

I thought AEM and GEMS being linked was well known

 

I was wondering if the software is pretty much identical.

[Wez]

I was wondering if the software is pretty much identical.

 

Looks the same to me.

 

AEM are currently working on new software called AEM Tuner which i think is there own, my first impressions are not great but it is still in early beta stages.

[Chris Wilson]

I like ecus that use a mapping box, i hate using laptop keyboards for that sort of thing. despite dozens of people pleading with Motec they have never offered this on their modern ecu range. the only ones in common use are DTA and EFI Technology. The EFI one is a total joy as you can six other functions on rotary controls, and just press button to load the settings into the ecu. A mapping box is the only way I feel even half comfortable mapping my own engines.

[Wez]

Looking on the GEMS site they have some nice displays, in theory they should work with the AEM unit, unless AEM have changed the serial protocol.

[Guest Geneb]

Thats your car of my list of stuff to do when i get back

 

Hehe

[Nodalmighty]

OK so for us poor unfortunates with an AEM and without the money to go change our minds now whats the best way forwards?

 

Ebay ?

 

Lyndon.

[TLicense]

OK, I'm going to stand on the side of AEM here.....

 

FWIW then for the future, I'd suggest,

=1st - Motec/Autronic (can run vvti's extra funtions, but will need extra mapping time)

3rd HKS Fcon V pro (only cause it's so hard to get a mapper - best for VVTi out of the box, will run ALL features)

4th Apexi PFC - sadly discontinued but did have a 2jz specific version)

5th Link G3 - No experience personally, going by other peoples opinions

6th AEM - just hope you get a reliable one - ones that are working now should continue to...AEM QC seems to be lacking.

7th EMU - Piggyback.

 

Seriously Alex? What makes the Autronic "better" than the AEM? The only thing I can see that makes it better than the AEM is the fact that it has a specific diagnostic routine and can hook up to the Motec dash.

The AEM has more memory for logging, can handle more injectors, doesn't require a very large outlay for a new wiring loom. The Autronic map sensor is only available for 4.4 bar or 1 bar (low resolution for those running 1.5 bar boost), doesn't come with enough ignition outputs as standard and has half as many outputs as they AEM. I've heard so many people try to pipe this "Autronic is in a different league" line, but no-one has yet trumped up any tangible reasons for it.

 

Also, I know of 2 people that have had to return their M600's for repair, and I don't work within the "ECU mapping industry". Does that mean that Motec are also to be avoided. Perhaps we should all resort to carbs?

 

Completely agree, and many of the faults were popping up in the change over to the 'new' type units.

 

All I'm saying is I understand the QC is crap, I understand that a few of them are faulty, but for those that aren't faulty(at least 85% of them), they should be capable of holding a decent level of tune.

 

The problem here it seems, is that the ecu is just not consistent, its definitely capable, which is really unfortunate, and may get rectified in the future, but I think I'll be heading to motec for the time being. I've not tried to defend aem at all here, I just wanted to confirm that there are no issues with capability regarding the aem, from looking at folk over in the U.S e.t.c it is definitely a good ecu, we just need more folk to get used to it over here:rolleyes:

 

85%?? C'mon be sensible. I've know/have heard of 2 units "failing". My coil drivers stopped working after being inactive for a year, and I believe Ryan G said that he'd heard of someones injector drivers failing.

 

I agree with what you're saying about not many people using them and the capabilities of the ECU. We just happen to live deep in Motecville here in the UK.

 

All I can say is when I speak to people who make a living working with aftermarket engine ecu's they always say buy a Motec or an EFI Technology unit. Most do not work for either company, they have just found out through experience which give the least hassle and are most likely to give the desired results, with excellent support. My own years of experience with race cars and race engines has taught me to ignore such advice at my peril.

 

Again, how many of these people have actually tried using AEM or anything other than what they've been trained in? I went to Owens and asked them to map my AEM, they hadn't even heard of it, yet they tried to instantly tell me that the Motec was better. How would they know?

 

That's exactly what I have. They used one half of a Fields harness I had.

 

I swapped recently from high impedance PE injectors in the stock rail to a top feed rail with low impedance injectors. Not problem with the Motec, just change one value and it runs fine, no need for resistor packs etc. It's great for that sort of thing.

 

The reason mappers tend to stick with mapping one type is I think down to several things. First sometimes they are dealers for that make and therefore want to encourage sales of it. Also, the software and features can be quite different - this won't affect basic fuel and ignition mapping, but things like how you setup the crank and cam position sensors, how you do lamda control and overrun fuel cut etc. If you're not familiar with it you could waste a lot of time trying to figure out what the different parameters do. Also you would have a base map with the basic parameters set up if it's an ECU you have mapped before - this would save a lot of time and you would know it was going to basically work.

 

As for the AEM, it has a pretty bad rep for being unreliable. It's also wasted spark only which is a change to the way the Supras ignition system normally works.

 

Again I don't know where this "rep for being unreliable" has come from? As far as changing to wasted spark, it's really not a problem. You can fit a DLI (much like you have to with the Autronic) and voila! Problems solved.

 

Prayer?

 

Ebay ?

 

Lyndon.

 

I take it these are meant in jest? You guys need to remember that not everyone will spend so much time researching this stuff, and comments like these often get very much taken out of context. I can see it now in 6 month's when AEM is back in fasion someone will pipe up with "Chris Wilson says you might as well pray as use an AEM".

[Chris Wilson]

I still stand firmly by Motec. I don't sell them, service them or fit them. In fact I don't "do" ecus at all, except for myself. I just trust what the majority of those in the know recommend, and what is the best selling and most prevalent ecu in modern motorsport. I also value the fact that there are loads of mappers and dyno facilities totally familiar with the things, and Motec UK will give support and advice "from the horses mouth". Can you ring up AEM for help?

[TLicense]

Yes.