SupraAyf Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 Spacers are also not a good idea, have a read of these articles. http://planetsoarer.com/offset/studs.htm http://planetsoarer.com/offset/offset.htm Nic, very useful indeed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucasl Posted March 28, 2007 Author Share Posted March 28, 2007 If spacers are so bad how come Top Secret have used them on their track focused supra, 4th paragraph 4 lines up http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/2932/hpi15gt3005ij2.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 These things are 90% show, 10% go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucasl Posted March 28, 2007 Author Share Posted March 28, 2007 don't know how good the driver is but it seems have pretty good go to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobSheffield Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 I have a plan... Lucasl, go for as wide a wheel as you like, you aint listening to all the advice from the folks in the know, so go ahead an do it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustGav Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 I have got a certain book on suspension design FILLED with lots of mathematics, and the few mm's of spacing add a lot more strain to the other bits than most people realize. Yes they do work, but since the cars are over-engineered with safety in mind, you are using up your safety margin which is something that you need to bear in mind.... If spacers were meant to be used, well then they would be on factory designs... Ever seen a touring car with spacers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockys96 Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 have a word with envy mate, they should have specs on what wheels for the ts kit. i have a 11.5 only to keep the tyre sizes down a little. although i could have fitted a 13" rear. its all down to offset. i have just got back from picking my car up since 5weeks ago. it feels so smooth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolarbag Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 If spacers were meant to be used, well then they would be on factory designs... Ever seen a touring car with spacers? I think the point in question was wider wheels? What I cant understand is this...the supra was designed at the factory to perform at its utmost stock... Why then, is everyone modifying their cars to 'perform' better if the stock setups where so good? Surely there must be aftermarket parts to accomodate better handling...with the inclusion of wider wheels, since stock, their so bloomin narrow? The supra was designed to handle best on the stock 17s at 320bhp...so therefore an increase in power would result in a loss of the 'perfect' stock handling? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockys96 Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 no there not, chris did you ever see the supra in high speed runs etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 You have my opinion, take or leave it, but I won't be swayed I know what you are trying to achieve, it seems simple, but it isn't, sorry. When I have more time I'll post up the saga of me building a wide body Elan. I learnt a lot from that, nearly killed myself, and wouldn't want anyone to go that route witout eyes wide open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustGav Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 You have my opinion, take or leave it, but I won't be swayed I know what you are trying to achieve, it seems simple, but it isn't, sorry. When I have more time I'll post up the saga of me building a wide body Elan. I learnt a lot from that, nearly killed myself, and wouldn't want anyone to go that route witout eyes wide open. I'd be so tempted to put that chassis book I have so people can have a look at the maths that goes into a decent suspension design... It isn't a case of stick some uprate bushes in and all is well... The loads that a few mm on the hubs have on the linkages closer to the body that are multiplied by factors of a X.. Guess that is reason, that while I may have uprated the engine to a single, my suspension and tyres have remained the same. Koni coilovers to firm it up a tad, but on 17's on an alloy with the same offset. Would I change much else, now that I've started to study the science behind chassis design, I doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustGav Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 I think the point in question was wider wheels? What I cant understand is this...the supra was designed at the factory to perform at its utmost stock... Why then, is everyone modifying their cars to 'perform' better if the stock setups where so good? Surely there must be aftermarket parts to accomodate better handling...with the inclusion of wider wheels, since stock, their so bloomin narrow? The supra was designed to handle best on the stock 17s at 320bhp...so therefore an increase in power would result in a loss of the 'perfect' stock handling? Hmmm, I think you are confusing two different parts of a car... Most car designers will approach it in a multi stage... The chassis is developed seperately from the drive train, they make sure they put in the same mating points, but that is about it.. It has been proven that the supra has a VERY good chassis design and can take big power... By me changing my TT for a single turbo, I will NOT affect the handling in any shape or form (unless you count the weight difference if you really wanted to push the point)...but the centre of gravity, the loading on the pivot points on the suspension, the overall handling of the car won't change... If you take a TT (and not change anything powertrain related), and swap the suspension and drop it say 2" for example... The first thing you have to do really is get the tracking (camber, caster and so on changed), because you have change the chassis dynamics. As soon as you change the camber to account for the 2" drop for example, you will change the way the suspension points are loaded up, the load on the bushes, and a lot more.. Same with the tyres, if you change the tyres to a different offset, you are changing the centre point for the wheel centre line, this will then feed down on to the hubs onto the linkage arms pushing them out of their designed operating parameters... some changes won't be noticeable because you will still be within the safe operating tolerances... Another way to consider it, why not use space savers on the car? purely because it completely changes the way the weight is distributed, the steering will go light, you will lean a lot more on the sidewall because the linkage rods and such are setup to expect a certain thickness of tyre surface and rotate round that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 so why do the GT supras run 18" by 13" width front and rear? Because they will have suspension set ups designed specifically for the track. Despite what anyone tells you, the best set up on a road / occasional track car is 17's. Anything else is a compromise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethr Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 What wheels do come with spigot rings though? I've never even heard of them before.Nearly all aftermarket wheels, but they are lost when the wheels are removed/replaced, or are sold on, and too many people do not know that they should be fitted. I've just bought some Carlsson wheels off eBay for the GS, and it looks as if I'll need to have some rings made because I cannot find any which are the correct size (76mm OD on my cheapo vernier calipers). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt k Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 Chris, How do the 18" Gs300 Sport wheels compare to Stock Supra 17" ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 Chris, How do the 18" Gs300 Sport wheels compare to Stock Supra 17" ? Excellent choice if you need an 18 inch rim. Correct offset, forged, correct spigot hole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ark Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 Nearly all aftermarket wheels, but they are lost when the wheels are removed/replaced, or are sold on, and too many people do not know that they should be fitted. I've just bought some Carlsson wheels off eBay for the GS, and it looks as if I'll need to have some rings made because I cannot find any which are the correct size (76mm OD on my cheapo vernier calipers). Fair enough. I popped my centre caps off to have a look-see and sure enough, spigot rings...I'm alright, Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SupraAyf Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 I think Chris and Phoenix-One have put the cards on the table for all Supe owners wishing to change some part of their wheel/tyre/suspension set-ups. For those that do not wish to heed the advice of the pro's; the best thing IMO is to get on with it and post some crash & damage pics up when they finally come unstuck. Easy as that. Sorry guys but these fellows clearly know what they are on about so its up to you:Pling: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolarbag Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 For those that do not wish to heed the advice of the pro's; the best thing IMO is to get on with it and post some crash & damage pics up when they finally come unstuck. Think thats a bit of an exaggeration there, but I get the point, it would be nice to see your findings on the elan project chris, give us abetter overall view;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucasl Posted March 30, 2007 Author Share Posted March 30, 2007 Hey good info, yea chris it would be nice to see the work you did on that elan to get a better understanding, i would like to try and make a complete new suspension setup for the supra but i don't have the knowledge or the tools to do so. One more question there are a few tuning companys in japan, like Top Secret that have made track cars using wide bodys do you think they have made complete new suspension setup's. They do go well as they have had good results in Tsukuba super lap battle. http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/2489/mspeedlinenr5.jpg http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/9262/rmagicrxbf1.jpg Sorry I like to put pics in my posts as it makes them more interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 There are a number of companies that make aftermarket suspension components for the likes of the Skyline and RX7, until recently no one made adjustable suspension components for the Supra. Ikeya Formula recently launched these parts for the JZA80. Whether they give enough adjustability to properly set up a wide bodied Supra, with bigger wider wheels, I don't know, but these are the only off the shelf parts available that I know of. You'd need someone with a lot of knowledge of suspension engineering (eg. Chris) and a lot of hours I suspect on a test track tuning the set up to achieve what you are wanting. 1. http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/2278/1bn8.jpg 2. http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/9831/2ut1.jpg 3. http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/7752/3dg5.jpg 4. http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/5337/4hr7.jpg 5. Missing 6. http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/8627/6zy1.jpg 7. http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/2518/7ub1.jpg 8. http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/562/8vk4.jpg EPC Image of OEM Front Suspension http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/7829/frontsuspension2vl2.jpg EPC Image of OEM Rear Suspension http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/7289/rearsuspensioneconvertemn8.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 Ikeya Formula recently launched these parts for the JZA80. I've still no idea what all those do but I want them anyway, they just look nice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 I've still no idea what all those do but I want them anyway, they just look nice Michael, just send me a lot of money and I'll send you some Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supragal Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 IMHO. If you want a wide boys kit and big wheels then you sacrifice track days. That's not a bad thing, it's just a personal choice. I'd like both, but for now I just have the show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 Michael, just send me a lot of money and I'll send you some How about I send you no money and you send me them on a trial/review basis? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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