AJI Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 flat4 - it does take more than 5mins actually to get a full idea of how a car handles. Its not just about accelerating and then braking and then being all knowledgebale about any particualr car. You have to drive it in different conditions for one thing, theres also how the car handles with different tyre temps, also how cars handle with different corner cambers and different degrees of corner radius... whether you're on the brakes on the throttle etc. etc. etc.... not something you can do in a few minutes. I agree fully with Bobbeh.... I'd prefer to take professional opinion from official tests over somebody who seems to like to rant on about how good they think they are with cars. Don't know why you have started to get agressive in this thread but you seem to have got me on the wrong side by it. As for the original point in this thread... I'd say that from my experience on track with my Supra that it brakes well and consitently over a good number of laps. As well as CW fast road/track pads on stock uk discs and acllipers the biggest improvement is DOT5.1 fluid which has a higher operating temp than the standard DOT4 fluid (or is it DOT 3 as it comes from the factory?). Warping of discs usually occurs when one area is either reaching a much higher temp than another (for some bizaar reason), or it is cooling down at faster rate than another area, (as already mentioned either by a previous post). This usually happens if you're stationary with the foot on the brake pedal (which incidently why on most performance cars the handbrake doesn't use the disc). Or it could be that you picked up water by going through a deep puddle... there could be a few reason as to how a disc could cool at different rates over its surface. It maybe that the whole outside surface is cooling at a much faster rate than the surface which faces the middle of the car. (Do you have any aftermarket brake cooling ducts or anything?) On my Formula Ford race car (well the one that I hire at Silverstone) they take care in making sure the brake cooling ducts are all alignied and that they don't have any dirt or other material on them.... because this can also warp them quite easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Flat4_ire Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 whos getting agressive here??? read back, i said ah yeah i hear what you are saying (bobbeh) we are not all race car drivers, im saying in general u know? obviously theyre are proper extensive tests to be carried out in all kinds of conditions, my god u cant say anything on this site without someone coming along with a whole A4 page of stuff to try and shoot u down! im just saying from my car experiences, ok dude? thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbeh Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 I think you're getting confused.. I wasnt talking to you in my 1st reply, thats probably why you took it the wrong way. If I were I'd have quoted your text. No one is trying to shoot you down, say what you want, but when the guy is asking a question about the cars braking ability FACT > OPINION. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 whos getting agressive here??? read back, that ok with you smart ass? or am i gonna have to come over there and slap the silly smirk off your face You getting aggressive? No, heaven forbid. It must have been someone else using your name in vain again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoboblio Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 Oh FFS can I please draw your attention to this sentence right at the top of the first post? Let take the Jap spec brakes out of the equation for now and concentrate on the stock larger UK spec. Flat4 I've just looked through your thread history, did your car even have UK brakes? If not then you two are having the worlds most pointless argument. If you did then by all means carry on, going to be a long night shift and I could do with the entertainment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Flat4_ire Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 You getting aggressive? No, heaven forbid. It must have been someone else using your name in vain again. u know me dude, and that isnt me being agressive chill ok, im a lover not a hater:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbeh Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 Flat4 I've just looked through your thread history, did your car even have UK brakes? If not then you two are having the worlds most pointless argument. Are you serious? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Flat4_ire Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 Oh FFS can I please draw your attention to this sentence right at the top of the first post? Let take the Jap spec brakes out of the equation for now and concentrate on the stock larger UK spec. Flat4 I've just looked through your thread history, did your car even have UK brakes? If not then you two are having the worlds most pointless argument. If you did then by all means carry on, going to be a long night shift and I could do with the entertainment ahh ok then, no mine didnt but i drove one with uk's, bit more stoping power with the uk's yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 And to think I nearly thought this would be a good thread to poach into technical. Now it's a case of By the way I've done a couple of trackdays recently with UK spec brakes, BluePrint discs, and CW fast road pads, backed up by Motul RBF600 fluid, and they last suprisingly well. About 3 laps before the pedal starts sinking Even then they hold out. On the road I've never experienced any problems at all with them and they certainly make your eyes bulge when braking in an emergency. OK, it's not datalogged facts but I've had the car for 4 years so my opinion is 420,480 times more relevant than fat4's 5 minute test -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 If you were getting a spongey pedal it was almost certainly fluid fase (boiling). Pad fade gives a normal high and hard pedal but little retardation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 My brake setup is as follows Motul Fluid CW pads Toyota UK Discs Toyota UK Brakes Goodridge Lines (sorry forgot I had these) Standard cooling...im quite easy on the car...for example..my rear tyres have given me 18000 miles and the front are still going strong (Toyos) and I get 21 mpg in london Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopite Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 Steel brake lines are helpful too IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 I've found the UKSpec brakes to be awesome. With decent tyres and decent road quality it can stop from 100mph on a sixpence. Surpisingly powerful, if you're not prepared for the experience. Unfortunately I didn't think of measuring decelleration the accelerometer, which I had hooked on at the time. I've driven hard several performance cars, only some expensive Porches come close. If you've got UKSpec brakes and are not stupidly powerful, then something is wrong. I'd first check fluid, disks, pads and suspension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 Oh yeah, I've got Goodridge braided brake hoses too -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koolance Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 well i had jap spec brakes on my supra they were just shocking. ive now upgraded to UK spec calipers and discs what a difference they make its like night and day..its amazing lol i had 4 pots on my subaru with Tarox G88 discs and rally pads and i felt they felt gooood but not as good as the mighty uk brakes lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoboblio Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 I went from having old tired worn out J-spec brakes to brand new UKs all round with decent fluid, goodridge hoses and CW pads.... now it's amazing. Breaking from about 100mph practically hurts And it gave me loads more confidence in pushing the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Flat4_ire Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 well i had jap spec brakes on my supra they were just shocking. ive now upgraded to UK spec calipers and discs what a difference they make its like night and day..its amazing lol i had 4 pots on my subaru with Tarox G88 discs and rally pads and i felt they felt gooood but not as good as the mighty uk brakes lol ah could u not have just agreed with me dude?!?!? n thats why ur buying an evo 8 is it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Class One Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 I think also that it matter HOW you use your brakes. Most drivers on the road brake far too early apply too little pressure and keep the brakes on for too long or comfort brake when they don't need to. Brakes work best when they've got heat into them, but its how you get them up to their optimal temperature, that will affect how they perform. For example, whacking them on from 100+ mph (on a track for example eh Ian ) won't do them any good at all. But building heat into them will get better results. Oh and I've got J spec brakes with CW fast road pads, and on the road I've NEVER had an issue with them. And anyone who's followed me up the road, will attest to my spirited driving style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muffleman Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 Well, my experience with UK brakes on my BPU JDM was that I it did fade when breaking from high speeds, I mean 130+ but otherwise they were pretty good. Breaking from road speeds was excellent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazboy Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 I've got UK brakes, EBC RedstuffC pads, 5.1 fliud and Goodridge braided lines. While braking is very good, in my opinion (ie I didn't strap a datalogger on) another club members PPP'd Impreza & P1 felt like they could stop a hell of a lot quicker from 130mph- the P1 especialy. Infact I'd say the P1 felt brutal, compared to my Supra feeling forceful- if you get my meaning. Smifffy was able to brake far, far later as a result. We did a (almost) side by side stop from 150mph, and it was like he hit a vat of treacle. After two Vmax days my discs are fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Flat4_ire Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 I've got UK brakes, EBC RedstuffC pads, 5.1 fliud and Goodridge braided lines. While braking is very good, in my opinion (ie I didn't strap a datalogger on) another club members PPP'd Impreza & P1 felt like they could stop a hell of a lot quicker from 130mph- the P1 especialy. Infact I'd say the P1 felt brutal, compared to my Supra feeling forceful- if you get my meaning. Smifffy was able to brake far, far later as a result. We did a (almost) side by side stop from 150mph, and it was like he hit a vat of treacle. After two Vmax days my discs are fine. that does surprise me to be honest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koolance Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 ah could u not have just agreed with me dude?!?!? n thats why ur buying an evo 8 is it i partially take back what i said now after tonight little run involving a pulsar the uk brakes let me down a bit an hour ago still none the less if i was using the jap spec then i would have went into the back of him lol im buying an evo 8 to beat my boss's 22b lol jk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
black cat Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 at the minute.....................................shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 Also note that 'UKSpec' brakes include the ABS G-sensors etc. I'm not sure if JSpecs have the exact same setup, which means that swapping discs and calipers they are identical. Suspension setup is also important when braking to the limit from high speeds. An old, tired or badly setup suspension might trigger the ABS earlier (and stop later) When I first got the car I could feel the ABS work at braking tests. Once I fitted Bilstein all around I couldn't feel it anymore, even at the same road braking from the same speed (100) Also no warping, no boiling, nothing (Toyota's own discs, pads and fluid) This all refers to road performance of course, track day performance is a whole different game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnK Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 I have never experienced any warping with my stock Toyota discs and pads, and that includes some seriuos repeated speed scrubbing in Germany from silly speeds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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