How much power & Torque is too much in a Supra?

[Nodalmighty]

With 600hp available from the v8 in NA form I would leave it like that and not have to worry about all the extra work involved with a turbo installation.

 

Nice and easy to work on, dont have to worry about intercoolers, wastegates, all the extra weight two turbos and manifolds add etc...

 

With a v8 I imagine the torque figure will be pretty close to the peak power, your biggest issue will be traction and drivetrain stress.

 

I have a Tremec MG9 Hi Torque 6 speed and a BMW M5 Plate LSD Diff (possibly with the Dave Mac 6 plates per side upgrade) going in so stress is not an option.

 

4th = 1:1 5th = 0.8:1 6th = 0.6:1 Diff = 3.15:1 It's going to go like a cut bastard.

 

This is why I call him Eric the half a Supra as there is not going to be much Supra left by the time I've finished with him

Edited October 12, 2016 by Nodalmighty (see edit history)

[ellis]

I have a Tremec MG9 Hi Torque 6 speed and a BMW M5 Plate LSD Diff (possibly with the Dave Mac 6 plates per side upgrade) going in so stress is not an option.

 

4th = 1:1 5th = 0.8:1 6th = 0.6:1 Diff = 3.15:1 It's going to go like a cut bastard.

 

This is why I call him Eric the half a Supra as there is not going to be much Supra left by the time I've finished with him

 

Which kind of brings your question back round to one of my points. When you've changed sooo many things (engine, gearbox etc) is it just a Supra shell with an assembly of frankenstein parts underneath? Visually it's a Supra but underneath it's not.

 

Should the question then be:

How much power and torque is too much in a car?

Edited October 12, 2016 by ellis (see edit history)

[Nodalmighty]

Which kind of brings your question back round to one of my points. When you've changed sooo many things (engine, gearbox etc) is it just a Supra shell with an assembly of frankenstein parts underneath? Visually it's a Supra but underneath it's not.

 

Should the question then be:

How much power & Torque is to much in a car?

 

 

Well it's half a Supra

[Tricky-Ricky]

I would suspect the chassis would start to show its weaknesses once past the 1,000-1,200 bhp/900ftlbs range.

 

And the suspension and steering geometry after 160-180mph.

[j_jza80]

I've just spent some time with a Shelby Mustang in the US, which has highlighted how problematic large capacity NA engines can be. The instant torque delivery made the thing undrivable, as a prod of the throttle either resulted in the traction control kicking in, or the back end of the car kicking out. Fun on the many straight and flat US roads, but would be a complete nightmare on any of our decent roads.

[el_bandido]

That's probably to do with terrible American boat like suspension though.

[Nodalmighty]

That's probably to do with terrible American boat like suspension though.

 

If it was the Roush version it would have been awesome

[Chris Wilson]

Big heavy car, on the road, you just need to look at the area under the torque curve graph. As for mapping serious HP / Torque engines, forget rolling roads and hub dynos, you need a proper engine dyno. How much is "right" for a road driven MKIV? IMO absolute tops would be 600 to 650 flywheel BHP with a load of torque. So called 1000 BHP 2JZ's? They will be all but undrivable, due to lag and silly power delivery, they will DRINK fuel, they WILL be very unreliable, they WILL need constant fettling, they WON'T like pump fuel, and you WILL be fed up with it in short order, if money and will power hasn'r run out before the thing works properly.....

 

Oh and the Yanks talk crap about cars and engines and chassis, you'll be as daft as they are if you go on US forums They have perfected going very short distances in a short time frame, the rest, they are still in the stone age

[Nodalmighty]

Plan A FTW then Chris

[Wonga Spar]

Big heavy car, on the road, you just need to look at the area under the torque curve graph. As for mapping serious HP / Torque engines, forget rolling roads and hub dynos, you need a proper engine dyno. How much is "right" for a road driven MKIV? IMO absolute tops would be 600 to 650 flywheel BHP with a load of torque. So called 1000 BHP 2JZ's? They will be all but undrivable, due to lag and silly power delivery, they will DRINK fuel, they WILL be very unreliable, they WILL need constant fettling, they WON'T like pump fuel, and you WILL be fed up with it in short order, if money and will power hasn'r run out before the thing works properly.....

 

Oh and the Yanks talk crap about cars and engines and chassis, you'll be as daft as they are if you go on US forums They have perfected going very short distances in a short time frame, the rest, they are still in the stone age

 

A lot of that is likely because we associate with UK roads, which are rarely straight. Unlike our friends across the pond.

 

While still probably god-awful, 1000hp might well be much more 'usable' on their side of things.

[Hitbox Junkie]

600 - 700rwhp is the sweet spot in my opinion. 800+ your looking at a completely different ball game. traction depends on tyres wheel size tyre size width and wall. you've got suspension to think about too. enough money with warm tyres you could have 1000rwhp but your still going to end up braking traction with most set ups.

 

700rwhp with r888s 17inch rim 305/315 with maybe a 40 wall is what I want but your still going to break traction. also Id get some decent all weather tyres too if your going to take it out all year round but obviously cant be hooning it in wet on what ever set up you have.

[Jellybean]

IMO Power numbers are meaningless , a car with the correct suspension setup , responsiveness , predictability is what I look for, just throwing power at a car is pointless , you need to look at it as a complete package. At BPU levels she is extremely responsive and planted , I was never in a Supra with over 430 hp mark but based on other experiences when you start getting into the higher numbers I would definitely look towards a 4WD , RWD Supra platform is getting beyond its threshold over 600 mark, driveability will be affected

 

BPU on public roads is very quick and will beat most cars, needs to be respected in the wet ,getting into higher numbers your reaction time/concentration needs to improve considerable , at the speeds some of the single cars can accelerate it can cause the car to get unsettled trying to get the power down , reason why I mention 4WD , it can get you out of trouble very quickly.

 

Ideally I would like a car to be as responsive as BPU (Sequential setup), with the possibility to crank up the power a little for the odd squirt

 

Munro racing Stage 4 Turbo's is what I am leaning towards for a few reasons

 

Price point

Can run them in sequential as Toyota intended, Billet wheels (Responsiveness)

OEM look , retain matching numbers for resale value

What really makes these stand out from the Rest is the ported housings , wastegate , eliminating any flow issues & the common issue the restricted Jspec wastegate

They are currently flowing 570 HP (at rear wheels) in Time Attack

[j_jza80]

You'd still need some decent aftermarket management, same fuelling as a single etc. I bet it wouldn't be much cheaper than buying a used single kit in the end.

 

Small singles are where it's at these days IMO, you can have a 600hp Supra that reaches full boost faster than stock twins, without any of the issues associated with VSV's and vac pipes. And these new generation ECU's generally have adjustable traction control, which really is a godsend in cars like these.

 

Another thing id consider a must is a decent diff, really transforms the car.

[Jellybean]

You'd still need some decent aftermarket management, same fuelling as a single etc. I bet it wouldn't be much cheaper than buying a used single kit in the end.

 

Small singles are where it's at these days IMO, you can have a 600hp Supra that reaches full boost faster than stock twins, without any of the issues associated with VSV's and vac pipes. And these new generation ECU's generally have adjustable traction control, which really is a godsend in cars like these.

 

Another thing id consider a must is a decent diff, really transforms the car.

 

Not disputing the additional accessories but the price point is very competitive versus Single manifold and turbo ,I would not feel comfortable buying a used kit , yes the VSV's and vac pipes are a downside , then again that is the ethos of the Supra design and what allows the responsiveness

 

Ideally I would like to drive a small single for comparison , only thing preventing me pulling the trigger but I would like to retain the factory look , too many modified Supras

 

Its a good conundrum to have

[Nodalmighty]

Another thing id consider a must is a decent diff, really transforms the car.

 

Yeah! That. A01B A02B is NOT a decent diff Torsens are total shite. I have a A01B in mine and couldn't under stand why I couldn't get off my inlaws gravel drive. Turns out if one wheel loses traction they go open, whats the fucking point of that?

[Jellybean]

OsGiken in mine does transform power delivery

[Nodalmighty]

OsGiken in mine does transform power delivery

 

BMW M5 4 plate LSD in mine. Craig @ DT gave it to me for helping him wire up his RX8. I'll see how that goes before the additional 8 plates are added.

[Swampy442]

Its a personal thing IMO, one person's too fast is another acceptable (Jamie P for example). And I also think that many people who say they want 7/8/900hp cars have never actually driven a really powerful, fast car.

 

I had an R35 GTR, that was 600 horse and was about as fast as Id want to go on a public road, and I drive pretty briskly. For a Supra factor in turbo lag, old school suspension tech, etc, I think any more would be pretty scary

[ibby]

400 to 550 rwhp

 

I am still stock and crave for bpu

 

 

[bignum]

For a 2j single 600 is about right for driveability and reliable, 600 and torque to match from your v8 then you`re into the unknown, power will come so much earlier i reckon you will have traction issues, i wouldn`t mind a go in it tho if you decide to track it:eyebrows:

[johnny g]

2JZ, GTX35r or 6266. 550bhp. Perfect street car.

[TheTurtleshead]

650-700 is a really nice street supra. I'll never go for more power in mine, it's just sensational. For that power you need a decent diff and tyres, plus brakes to really enjoy it though and for it to feel comfortable on the road!

[Fearless]

Do I a) Keep it NA, high compression, big high lift roller cam and enjoy huge grunt and 600fwhp, or b) Low compression (9.2:1 0.8mm squish) turbo friendly cam and a pair of scrolls and enjoy anywhere from 700 to 1600fwhp

 

Definitely a)

I reduced the compression on my first 1uz to accommodate the turbos but lost so much torque it ruined the car.

I'm much happier with it now with the high compression and just a little extra boost from the supercharger.

[fastcar]

To be honest I would of thought that anything much past the 700 mark in a supra the chassis (as good and as strong as it is) would start to flex also aiding loss of traction. There are many things over looked when chasing big power and chassis reinforcement is one of them!

[j_jza80]

2JZ, GTX35r or 6266. 550bhp. Perfect street car.

 

This.

 

I'm currently at 550 ish on max boost, and it's about right. I think at some point when I do a gearbox swap, I'll change my current GTX3576R for a GTX3582R and utilise my spare twin scroll exhaust housing. That'll top 600 for the odd occasion, but for normal driving would give 550 on lower boost. Perfectly streetable, ultra responsive, no expensive fuel system mods, safe on stock unopened engine, relatively safe with the transmission/ drivetrain etc.