Chris Wilson Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 Right, so the plug and play MKIV ecu's do not control the sequential turbo system, err, sequentially then!! You have to make a retrograde step and plumb them up in parallel. Not impressed by that. Even the ancient PowerFC will run them as intended. One has to hope the plug and play ecus run the injectors sequentially and the coils on pre VVTi engines sequentially.... I wonder how good the knock control strategy is, will it alter timing on a cylinder to cylinder basis? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 Regarding traction control, you can just use frequency dividers (use divide by 4) to get ABS signal to a usable range for Link ECUs other then the Thunder, which has high speed sensors. Way easier then trying to change the tooth count of the ABS. Indeed, you could DIY these if you were electrically competent, or I am sure someone, somewhere has a preconfigured IC in a little box ready done. That way you keep the high resolution of the ABS wheels for the ABS and a faked say 1/4 tooth count for TC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nodalmighty Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 My Supra will have a fully optioned Fury to run the V8. I'll show you round the software when I come for my Bilstein setup Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 The AEM v1 PnP also controls the sequential system. In the most basic form you need three outputs that can be RPM triggered at different points, this is what the AEM does, ideally if each output could be mapped based on RPM and engine load or TPS then you could have even more control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellybean Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 Right, so the plug and play MKIV ecu's do not control the sequential turbo system, err, sequentially then!! You have to make a retrograde step and plumb them up in parallel. Not impressed by that. Even the ancient PowerFC will run them as intended. One has to hope the plug and play ecus run the injectors sequentially and the coils on pre VVTi engines sequentially.... I wonder how good the knock control strategy is, will it alter timing on a cylinder to cylinder basis? Will ask the tech Chris about teh injectors and coils and Knock Control strategy What is your opinion on it , reckon it is worth using? I can see why these units are being pushed , PNP kits will be a quicker option for the mapper to get installed,setup and out the door Help file on calibrating the units is very comprehensive and straight forward to follow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nodalmighty Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 (edited) Am I the only one on here who knows Whifbits is a Link dealer and has been for a while? Edited April 5, 2016 by Nodalmighty (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 Well, if I had a twin turbo Supra and wanted to change to a mappable ecu for whatever reason i would want and expect to keep the sequential control of the turbos, it's the whole ethos of the engine's design God dammit Whilst individual cylinder retard on knock is the Holy Grail of knock control, or so I am told, I would imagine mapping it effectively would be both risky and extremely time consuming. I'd be happy with boost reduction then retard on knock on ANY cylinder myself. I have to say I am very surprised that an ECU sold as plug and play does not control the turbos sequentially, I see they say they are to be fitted to single turbo conversions, (or aftermarket, none sequential twin turbo conversions). The earlier post citing a post reply that they are for single turbo converted engines is the first time I have noticed this mentioned! Is it in the main text of the plug and play advertising blurb? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samurai 20V Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 Right, so the plug and play MKIV ecu's do not control the sequential turbo system, err, sequentially then!! You have to make a retrograde step and plumb them up in parallel. Not impressed by that. Even the ancient PowerFC will run them as intended. One has to hope the plug and play ecus run the injectors sequentially and the coils on pre VVTi engines sequentially.... I wonder how good the knock control strategy is, will it alter timing on a cylinder to cylinder basis? Its for this reason Chris I am looking at the F-CON Vpro. Previously only mappable by a dealer, the 3.4 & 4.0 are released with the software. For a BPU car, the OEM ECU controls everything aside from the fuel and timing, and it is not a signal fudger, it takes full control. Plug and Play harness makes easy for JDM car. With the Knock amp, AFR and knock feedback are possible. I'm 90% decided on this route.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellybean Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 Its for this reason Chris I am looking at the F-CON Vpro. Previously only mappable by a dealer, the 3.4 & 4.0 are released with the software. For a BPU car, the OEM ECU controls everything aside from the fuel and timing, and it is not a signal fudger, it takes full control. Plug and Play harness makes easy for JDM car. With the Knock amp, AFR and knock feedback are possible. I'm 90% decided on this route.. O2 wideband Sensor for them off HKS I was told by my mapper is eye watering $$$ and you are limited to HKS sensor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nodalmighty Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 I have to say I am very surprised that an ECU sold as plug and play does not control the turbos sequentially, I see they say they are to be fitted to single turbo conversions, (or aftermarket, none sequential twin turbo conversions). The earlier post citing a post reply that they are for single turbo converted engines is the first time I have noticed this mentioned! Is it in the main text of the plug and play advertising blurb? Getting them to work the sequential would be very straight forward. I've done it before on the wire in units. They have a plug inside that acts as expansion port. You just need to make sure you buy the connector kit with ecu. I've done a vipec P'n'P on a GT4 they are what they are. same but different Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellybean Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 Well, if I had a twin turbo Supra and wanted to change to a mappable ecu for whatever reason i would want and expect to keep the sequential control of the turbos, it's the whole ethos of the engine's design God dammit Whilst individual cylinder retard on knock is the Holy Grail of knock control, or so I am told, I would imagine mapping it effectively would be both risky and extremely time consuming. I'd be happy with boost reduction then retard on knock on ANY cylinder myself. I have to say I am very surprised that an ECU sold as plug and play does not control the turbos sequentially, I see they say they are to be fitted to single turbo conversions, (or aftermarket, none sequential twin turbo conversions). The earlier post citing a post reply that they are for single turbo converted engines is the first time I have noticed this mentioned! Is it in the main text of the plug and play advertising blurb? I dont see anyting to say indicate in the Advertising blurb it is not supported just going by what the Link Tech Told me http://www.linkecu.com/TS2JZPlus SupraLink - #TS2JZ+ Free yourself from the constraints of the factory ECU. The Link G4+ SupraLink TS2JZ+ PlugIn fits the Toyota Supra 2JZ non VVT. The ECU is a direct fit in the factory location. Installation is a breeze with no alteration of the factory wiring loom required. A built-in connector provides additional inputs and outputs such as oil pressure inputs or anti-lag / logging switches. Factory features are supported - see Features for any exceptions. FeaturesSpecifications Features G4+ PlugIn Key Features (Where Applicable) Up to 6D fuel and ignition mapping Precision closed loop cam control (four cam, independent control) Sequential fuel delivery Digital triggering, all OEM patterns OEM idle hardware supported 5D boost control with three switchable tables Motorsport features - antilag, launch, flat shift Continuous barometric correction (on board) CAN port QuickTune - automated fuel tuning Individual cylinder correction USB tuning cable included Stats recording into on-board memory Gear compensations for spark, boost and fuel Real time selectable dual fuel, ignition and boost maps Sync and crank sensors can be a combination of Hall effect, variable reluctance or optical Boost control referenced to gear, speed or throttle position Up to 32Mbit internal logging memory Staged injection Knock with "windowing" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 Well the support chap seems to be saying it won't run the sequential system, but the spec sheet makes no mention of it. Perhaps there's a downloadable pin out schematic, one could see if there are outputs for the 3 sequential turbo control solenoids? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samurai 20V Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 O2 wideband Sensor for them off HKS I was told by my mapper is eye watering $$$ and you are limited to HKS sensor I have the knock amp already, takes a Bosch sensor. Yanks also using it with the Bosch sensor, works fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellybean Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 Well the support chap seems to be saying it won't run the sequential system, but the spec sheet makes no mention of it. Perhaps there's a downloadable pin out schematic, one could see if there are outputs for the 3 sequential turbo control solenoids? SupraLink Auxiliary Outputs Aux 1 Tacho Aux 2 Fuel Pump speed control Aux 3 A/C Clutch relay Aux 4 Wastegate Solenoid Aux 5 Idle Stepper 1 Aux 6 Idle Stepper 3 Aux 7 Idle Stepper 2 Aux 8 Idle Stepper 4 Aux 10 Purge Solenoid Aux - Injection Outputs Aux Inj 7 O2 Heater Aux Inj 8 ECU Hold power Aux – Ignition Outputs Aux - Ign 7 Check Engine light Aux - Ign 8 Fuel Pressure Increase Solenoid Analog Channels An Volt 1 MAP Sensor An Volt 2 Air Mass Meter Signal (AFM) An Volt 3 NB Oxy An Volt 4 NB Oxy An Volt 5 Throttle Position Sensor An Volt 6 Expansion connector An Volt 7 Expansion connector An Volt 8 Oxygen Sensor Signal An Temp 1 ECT Signal An Temp 2 IAT Signal An Temp 3 and 4 Expansion connector Digital Inputs DI 1 Vehicle Speed Signal DI 2 Ignition Switch DI 3 A/C Request DI 4 Electrical Load Sensor DI 5 Start Signal DI 6 Brake Switch DI 7 and 8 Expansion connector Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellybean Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 Am I the only one on here who knows Whifbits is a Link dealer and has been for a while? No - - - Updated - - - Chris , this might answer your Q on I wonder how good the knock control strategy is, will it alter timing on a cylinder to cylinder basis? Cyl X Allocation Each cylinder can have a table assigned to it that will be used to display the amount of ignition retard due to the Knock Control system. The Cyl X Allocation setting determines which table is allocated to a particular cylinder. The way in which cylinders are allocated depends on the ignition mode. Direct Spark The ECU has the ability to detect knock on each individual cylinder. Assume 6 cylinder with firing order: 1-5-3-6-2-4. Cylinder 1 = Cylinder 1 Allocation Cylinder 2 = Cylinder 2 Allocation Cylinder 3 = Cylinder 3 Allocation Cylinder 4 = Cylinder 4 Allocation Cylinder 5 = Cylinder 5 Allocation Cylinder 6 = Cylinder 6 Allocation Wasted Spark The ECU has the ability to detect knock on cylinder spark pairs. Detection is based upon the first cylinder in the firing order of the spark pair. Assume 6 cylinder with firing order: 1-5-3-6-2-4. Cylinder 1 = Cylinder 1 Allocation Cylinder 2 = Cylinder 5 Allocation Cylinder 3 = Cylinder 3 Allocation Cylinder 4 = Cylinder 3 Allocation Cylinder 5 = Cylinder 5 Allocation Cylinder 6 = Cylinder 1 Allocation Distributed The ECU does not have the ability to detect knock on individual cylinders. Assume 6 cylinder with firing order: 1-5-3-6-2-4. Cylinder 1 = Cylinder 1 Allocation Cylinder 2 = Cylinder 1 Allocation Cylinder 3 = Cylinder 1 Allocation Cylinder 4 = Cylinder 1 Allocation Cylinder 5 = Cylinder 1 Allocation Cylinder 6 = Cylinder 1 Allocation Twin Distributed The ECU has the ability to detect knock in two groups. One group for each distributor. Assume a V6 with the firing order: 1-2-3-4-5-6. Cylinder 1 = Cylinder 1 Allocation Cylinder 2 = Cylinder 2 Allocation Cylinder 3 = Cylinder 1 Allocation Cylinder 4 = Cylinder 2 Allocation Cylinder 5 = Cylinder 1 Allocation Cylinder 6 = Cylinder 2 Allocation Rotary - Leading Wasted Spark The ECU does not have the ability to detect knock on individual rotors. Assume a twin rotor. Rotor F = Cylinder 1 Allocation Rotor R = Cylinder 1 Allocation Rotary - Leading Direct Spark The ECU does have the ability to detect knock on individual rotors. Assume a twin rotor. Rotor F = Cylinder 1 Allocation Rotor R = Cylinder 2 Allocation These examples illustrate the highest level of individual cylinder/rotor detection (i.e. as many tables used as possible). It is possible to reduce the number of tables used by further pairing of cylinders. This allows the following combinations to be achieved: · An individual knock ignition trim table for each cylinder (direct spark only). · One knock ignition trim table used for all cylinders (any ignition mode). · Separate knock ignition trim tables for groups of cylinders. eg one table for left bank, one table for right bank (not all modes). eg. One table for front three cylinders and another table for the rear three cylinders. These settings can cause confusion so are best illustrated with examples. Direct Spark Example: Individual table for each cylinder (4 cyl engine): · Cyl 1 Allocation = Cyl 1 ITrim Table · Cyl 2 Allocation = Cyl 2 ITrim Table · Cyl 3 Allocation = Cyl 3 ITrim Table · Cyl 4 Allocation = Cyl 4 ITrim Table Direct Spark Example: One table for all cylinders (4 cyl engine): · Cyl 1 Allocation = Cyl 1 ITrim Table · Cyl 2 Allocation = Cyl 1 ITrim Table · Cyl 3 Allocation = Cyl 1 ITrim Table · Cyl 4 Allocation = Cyl 1 ITrim Table Direct Spark Example:: One table for each bank (8 cyl engine odds on left bank, evens on right bank): · Cyl 1 Allocation = Cyl 1 ITrim Table · Cyl 2 Allocation = Cyl 2 ITrim Table · Cyl 3 Allocation = Cyl 1 ITrim Table · Cyl 4 Allocation = Cyl 2 ITrim Table · Cyl 5 Allocation = Cyl 1 ITrim Table · Cyl 6 Allocation = Cyl 2 ITrim Table · Cyl 7 Allocation = Cyl 1 ITrim Table · Cyl 8 Allocation = Cyl 2 ITrim Table Direct Spark Example: One table for front cylinders, one table for rear cylinders (6 cyl engine): · Cyl 1 Allocation = Cyl 1 ITrim Table · Cyl 2 Allocation = Cyl 1 ITrim Table · Cyl 3 Allocation = Cyl 1 ITrim Table · Cyl 4 Allocation = Cyl 2 ITrim Table · Cyl 5 Allocation = Cyl 2 ITrim Table · Cyl 6 Allocation = Cyl 2 ITrim Table -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Knock Level Cyl #X Gain The Knk Level Cyl #X Gain setting is used to apply a multiplier to the knock level on individual cylinders. This settings is useful for amplifying cylinders located at varying distances from the knock sensor. (e.g., Cyl1 and Cyl4 will require more gain than Cyl2 and Cyl3 on a four cylinder engine with a central knock sensor). Gains are relative to the Cylinder Allocation, and not the actual cylinder. Gains relating to allocations not defined have no effect. · A Gain of 1.00 represents no change to the level. · A Gain of 0.50 represents the level being reduced to half of the original level. · A Gain of 2.00 represents the level being doubled. Adjust the individual cylinder gains so that all cylinders are reading an equal value when free reving the engine without it knocking. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- CylX Knk Detection The Knk Detection setting turns the knock detection for a certain cylinder ON or OFF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nodalmighty Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 (edited) Looking at the software the ignition Knock control is per cylinder with individual gain and trim tables. Couldn't find where the sensors are assigned to the cylinders, but only scanned over it. Edited April 5, 2016 by Nodalmighty (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellybean Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 Chris , One has to hope the plug and play ecus run the injectors sequentially and the coils on pre VVTi engines sequentially.... G4+ ECUs have up to eight independent injector drives. This means that for most engines sequential injection can be used. Depending on the number of Injection Drives, the following Injection Modes may be available: · Single Point Group · Semi-Sequential · Sequential · Multi Point Group · Sequential/Staged · Group/Staged Single-Point Group Injection A single injector (sometimes two) is used to supply fuel for all cylinders. Normally this injector is placed just before or just after the throttle body. In this mode the injector(s) are fired once per TDC. The injector should be driven by Injector Drive 1. If two injectors are used then the second injector should be driven by Injector Drive 2. Multi-Point Group Injection This mode should be used if each cylinder has its own injector, but there are too many cylinders or insufficient triggering to use sequential injection. In this mode the injectors are fired in two out-of-phase groups with each group firing once for every 360 or 720 degrees of crankshaft rotation (depending on the Injection Rate setting). Wire each injector to its own drive or pair injectors if there are not enough drives. Semi-Sequential Injection Semi sequential fires injectors in groups of two. It allows injection timing control and minimises the time available for fuel to condense on the port walls. This mode requires sufficient triggering to determine engine position in the 720 degree engine cycle. In this mode, ideally injectors are wired in pairs according to the firing order with the pairs wired to the injector driver that corresponds to the lowest numbered cylinder in the pair. However, with some firing orders this is not possible. In cases where that rule is not possible the idea is to group injectors in such a way that the time for fuel to sit in the port is minimised. Select Sequential Injection Mode when using this wiring configuration. Note that unused injection drives will not be available for other use and will still be firing according to their position in the firing order. Examples: · 6 Cylinder, firing order 1 5 3 6 2 4. Works nicely as per rule. Fuel sits in port for 120 degrees longer on the higher numbered cylinder in the pair than the other. · Injector drive 1 is wired to injectors for cylinders 1 and 5. · Injector drive 2 is wired to injectors for cylinders 2 and 4. · Injector drive 3 is wired to injectors for cylinders 3 and 6. · 8 Cylinder, firing order 1 8 4 3 6 5 7 2. Does not follow rule due to firing order. Pairs as per OEM Toyota 1UZFE wiring. · Injector drive 1 is wired to injectors for cylinders 1 and 7. · Injector drive 2 is wired to injectors for cylinders 2 and 8. · Injector drive 3 is wired to injectors for cylinders 3 and 5. · Injector drive 4 is wired to injectors for cylinders 4 and 6. · 10 Cylinder firing order 1 10 9 4 3 6 5 8 7 2. Follows rule but note that the order of the high and low cylinder in each pair changes. eg in the 1-10 pair, cylinder 10 gets its fuel 72 degrees before deal. In the 9-4 pair, cylinder 9 gets its fuel 72 degrees after ideal. · Injector drive 1 is wired to injectors for cylinders 1 and 10. · Injector drive 2 is wired to injectors for cylinders 2 and 7. · Injector drive 3 is wired to injectors for cylinders 3 and 6. · Injector drive 4 is wired to injectors for cylinders 4 and 9. · Injector drive 5 is wired to injectors for cylinders 5 and 8. Sequential Injection This mode should be used if each cylinder has it’s own injector providing the following criteria are met: 1. There must be one Injector Drive for each cylinder. 2. There must be sufficient triggering for the ECU to calculate the current engine position in the 720 degree engine cycle. This means that a second trigger sensor is required for synchronisation and this must use an appropriate trigger wheel driven off of the camshaft (or driven at half the crankshaft’s angular speed). In this mode each injector must be correctly wired to its own injector drive so that the injector can be fired. The timing at which the injectors fire is configurable within PCLink Tuning Software. The firing order of the engine is NOT important at the wiring stage as the firing order will be entered into the ECU via PCLink Tuning Software. Wire each cylinder to its corresponding injector drive number (wire cylinder 1 injector to injector drive 1, 2 to 2, 3 to 3 etc...). Set the 'Injection Mode' to 'Sequential' when using this configuration. Staged Injection This mode allows the use of staged injection where the engine uses primary injectors that operate at all times and secondary injectors that only operate at high load/rpm. This arrangement is useful in applications with very high fuel delivery requirements that would normally require extremely large injectors. Very large injectors make tuning difficult at low loads (idle and low power operation). With staged injection one smaller set of injectors operates at low load giving more precise control. At higher loads both sets of injectors become active to supply the required fuelling needs. Group Fire Staged Injection This mode must be used for staged injection if the criteria required for sequential injection are not met. In this mode the number of injection drives used can be specified using the 'Active Drives' setting. Irrespective of the number of injection drives used, wire the primary injectors to odd numbered Injector Drives (Inj1, Inj3, Inj5, Inj7), wire the secondary injectors to even numbered Injector Drives (Inj2, Inj4, Inj6, Inj8). In this mode all primary injector drives are fired at the same time (group fire) and all secondary injector drives are fired at the same time (group fire). Set the 'Injection Mode' to 'Group/Staged' when using this configuration. For example on a V8 engine with a primary and secondary injector per cylinder the following table shows how the injectors should be wired: Injector Drive Numbers Injectors 1, 3, 5, 7 All 8 primary injectors 2, 4, 6, 8 All 8 secondary injectors Be sure to follow the injector wiring guidelines to that the maximum injector drive current is not exceeded. Sequential Staged Injection This mode can be used to provide full sequential injection on both the primary and secondary injectors. This mode requires that the engine have sufficient triggering to calculate crankshaft position and the position in the firing order (i.e. a sync signal is required). Cylinders/ Rotors Primary Secondary Spare Inj Drives 2 Inj 1 = Pri 1 Inj 2 = Pri 2 Inj 3 = Sec 1 Inj 4 = Sec 2 Inj 5-8 Spare 3 Inj 1 = Pri 1 Inj 2 = Pri 2 Inj 3 = Pri 3 Inj 4 = Sec 1 Inj 5 = Sec 2 Inj 6 = Sec 3 Inj 7-8 Spare 4 Inj 1 = Pri 1 Inj 2 = Pri 2 Inj 3 = Pri 3 Inj 4 = Pri 4 Inj 5 = Sec 1 Inj 6 = Sec 2 Inj 7 = Sec 3 Inj 8 = Sec 4 None 5 Inj 1 = Pri 1 Inj 2 = Pri 2 Inj 3 = Pri 3 Inj 4 = Pri 4 Inj 5 = Pri 5 Inj 7 = Sec Group 1 Inj 8 = Sec Group 2 Inj 6 Spare 6 Inj 1 = Pri 1 Inj 2 = Pri 2 Inj 3 = Pri 3 Inj 4 = Pri 4 Inj 5 = Pri 5 Inj 6 = Pri 6 Inj 7 = Sec Group 1 Inj 8 = Sec Group 2 None Full primary and secondary sequential injection can only be achieved on engines with four cylinders or less. Wire injectors as shown in the preceding table. On engines with 5 or 6 cylinders the primary injectors will be fired sequentially and secondary injectors fired in group mode. Engines with 8 or more cylinders must use Group Staged Injection. Set the 'Injection Mode' to 'Sequential/Staged' when using this configuration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellybean Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 Looking at the software the ignition Knock control is per cylinder with individual gain and trim tables. Will this be enough to protect the engine from Knock? Would the AEM or Syvecs provide additional protection? I am trying to find info about using Knockblock or Knocklink but think they are just used for tuning and not a plug in for the ECU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nodalmighty Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 Will this be enough to protect the engine from Knock? Would the AEM or Syvecs provide additional protection? I am trying to find info about using Knockblock or Knocklink but think they are just used for tuning and not a plug in for the ECU The Knock block can be used as a real time knock device. It is designed to interface to the link ecu as the ecu outputs a window signal. It's over £500 though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 Cheaper than the Motec M series knock add on, the SKM, which is about £730 I think! The problem with the Motec M series is the upgrades and a knock module put them in the very high price end. I think all the Syvecs have knock control built in, don't they?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellybean Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 The Knock block can be used as a real time knock device. It is designed to interface to the link ecu as the ecu outputs a window signal. It's over £500 though Thanks!Will the onboard be enough to protect the engine from Knock or at least on par with OEM? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellybean Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 Cheaper than the Motec M series knock add on, the SKM, which is about £730 I think! The problem with the Motec M series is the upgrades and a knock module put them in the very high price end. I think all the Syvecs have knock control built in, don't they?? http://www.syvecs.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=117#p497 The S6 knock detection is ratiometric, ie what is the current spectral energy compared to the average. There is no "normal" value as such, but you can run the engine with retarded timing to ensure there is definitely no knock, then you will see what is normal for your engine. The will give you a baseline, and will represent roughly what knockBase you should end up with. Then, you can ramp in the timing until you get trace knock, compare these values with those that are the baseline to setup the Event Detection Level (which is normally set at about 1.5*knockBase, ie if the background level is 30 then the ECU will look up the threshold at a knockBase of 30, will find that any value 45 or greater is a knock, so if you get one reading of 47 it will be detected as knock, whereas 35 would not. Of course this is just a "get you going" set of values, and you'll need to check with your own engine, you may find that with a knockBase of 30 piston and valve noise could give spikes of 50 which are not knock, or you may find that even 40 is slight knock. You need to set your knock filter frequency to 6.12kHz for 92mm pistons, that seems to be the best match. You will probably find that cylinder 2 and 4 will generate phantom knock before others do, so it's not unusual to see higher event detection levels on 2 and 4... if it is real knock then you can put in a per cylinder ignition correction, and perhaps also a little fuel, just remember to set the per cylinder correction enable threshold lower than 100% throttle under Breakpoints and Thresholds, otherwise they won't get applied! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 Who knows exactly what the stock ECU knock control does though? Those so qualified can probably make some tests and make educated guesses, but without access to the firmware I would think it unlikely a full and true picture would be available? Personally i would accept a set up that acknowledged knock in one or many cylinders with a Draconian boost cut. Further knock over a few dozen engine cycles should then see retard and enrichment. Still further knock should see a warning light and a "limp home strategy. I think running a bleeding edge set up utilising individual cylinder retard / enrichment to the fullest extent is for the well funded and perhaps very brave! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellybean Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 Chris with what you have read so far injectors,coils, Knock control ; would you be happy to run the ECU in your skyline? I dont want to put you on the spot , just want to guage your opinion before I buy it this week Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 My Skyline Motec set up has no knock control. It's mapped conservatively. KISS (Or read cheap....). If you aren't trying to control the stock sequential turbo stuff I am sure it would be just fine. Maybe it would have enough outputs to do the sequential too, wih a bit of jiggery pokery, like running a different idle control valve? Are you trying to run stock twin turbos? My Volvo engine project ( 4 cylinder 2.8 stroker) may get treated to knock monitoring, if not control, as it's a big bore engine operating at high torque. Big bore engines are far more likely to knock than a small bore, due to the long flame travel. It also has old school 2 valves per cylinder, in an old school head chamber shape, but I can do some work to help it a bit there. Don't read into any of my ramblings that I am any kind of mapping or ECU expert though, I am not!! I do understand the basic parameters a 4 stroke petrol engine desires though, to a reasonable extent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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