Real Cost of fitting a Turbocharged Engine

[skippyboyo1]

It's all personal preference at the end of the day. If someone wants to spend 5k turbocharging an na then it's their choice.

 

I've had all sorts if cars and only ever had issues If I change the engine .... I had a mark3 Astra gsi to which I fitted a c20let.Worse thing I ever did, the car was never right.

 

Personally if I had to do it I'd get SRD or Paul to do the job simply as they do this kind if job everyday and ultimately with the correct advice on parts the end product will be reliable... As it can be. I'd only ever put a turbo engine with 6 speed in mine.

 

I'd never turbo charge an na but that's just me, no matter how you look at it your asking an engine to do something it wasn't designed to do and I don't like the sound of that... But that's just my opinion.

 

At the end of the day good engine swaps done by the right people cost, it's just a fact.

[James]

While I respect and even admire the fact that you've done this purely for the pleasure, I doubt it will end up being cheap, all things considered.

 

As I'm starting to rediscover, there's only one way to buy a cheap Supra - buy one that someone else has just spent a fortune building.

 

 

I bought my first (1994) Supra as a W58 5 speed with a 2JZ-GTE fitted. The (A01A) open diff gave up after a while and so I replaced it with an A02B LSD (TT Auto). I needed to change the flange on it for this though to get it to fit.

 

I then decided that my goal would be to have a 6 speed single. I looked into what it would cost to do that and it worked out that it was cheaper to buy a VERY clean '97 VVTi with a V161 6 speed, A03B LSD, GReddy T88-34D turbo kit with all (all being quite a lot of... ) supporting mods AND then CCW Classics on top of that as well.

[Swampy442]

I keep reading about people fitting GTE engines in their N/A cars, and then having to upgrade the gearbox (and probably the diff too) and wonder if it's worth it?

 

The cost of fitting a 2JZ-GTE plus V160 in an N/A car (let alone a lower ratio Diff too) seems to be HORRENDOUS, especially if you have to pay a garage to do the work.

 

So what is the TOTAL cost (with EVERYTHING) of doing that?

 

So, I sold a non VVTI 2JZ GTE complete with auto box for 1400 quid so lets go with that. V16x conversion, ball park 3500. Diff and drive shafts, 300 quid? So your over 5 grand without any labour costs.

Remove the old engine, say 3 hours work, place the engine and box in, similar time, fitting diff and shafts, couple of hours. Then theres the cutting holes for master cylinders, trans tunnel, wiring etc, who knows how long that takes if you get any issues. TT rad, front mount cooler or side mount, pipework to suit, I doubt you'd get any change from 7 grand.

[Twisted]

Not that I'm thinking of doing this yet. It would be years down the line if I was going to. But say I wanted my current TT to be an aero top and as a result decided to take everything off my TT and place it into a NA aero top shell would that be cheaper than buying a TT aero? I'm guessing it wouldn't be but I'm assuming TT aero tops are going for £15000 maybe in the UK when they come up and my TT would probably sell for 8 grand I think that there is a chance it would be cheaper to convert it.

Thoughts?

[Scott]

So, I sold a non VVTI 2JZ GTE complete with auto box for 1400 quid so lets go with that. V16x conversion, ball park 3500. Diff and drive shafts, 300 quid? So your over 5 grand without any labour costs.

Remove the old engine, say 3 hours work, place the engine and box in, similar time, fitting diff and shafts, couple of hours. Then theres the cutting holes for master cylinders, trans tunnel, wiring etc, who knows how long that takes if you get any issues. TT rad, front mount cooler or side mount, pipework to suit, I doubt you'd get any change from 7 grand.

 

I could be completely wrong, as prices change, but I believe Keron does/did a drive in drive out 6k auto-na to manual-TT transplant. I'm assuming that includes him keeping the engine/box though.

[Swampy442]

And if that includes a 6 speed, its a bit of a bargain.

[Scott]

And if that includes a 6 speed, its a bit of a bargain.

 

It was always there or there abouts. N/A-tt was around 3k, auto to manual was around the same.... may have been 3.5k for the auto to manual though.

 

Getting both done at the same time was perhaps a small discount, hence the 6k figure for both.

 

I wouldn't call it a bargain to be honest, it just is what it is

[David P]

I could be completely wrong, as prices change, but I believe Keron does/did a drive in drive out 6k auto-na to manual-TT transplant. I'm assuming that includes him keeping the engine/box though.

 

Only because folks can't be bothered to take them away.

[David P]

The hidden cost is in maintenance, which will become apparent with time.

 

If you blow up a T.T. lump, it'll cost around £2,500 to replace it, if you can get one.

 

If you blow up an N/A lump, it'll cost around £100 and £100 for a T.T. head gasket and no problem with supply.

[Swampy442]

I wouldn't call it a bargain to be honest, it just is what it is

 

Lol I suppose, but when you're looking at 5k in parts, a grand labour is pretty reasonable. Suppose Keron has the economy of scale.

[Scott]

Lol I suppose, but when you're looking at 5k in parts, a grand labour is pretty reasonable. Suppose Keron has the economy of scale.

 

Advantage of foresight I guess. He can set his margin and set his offer of donors based on that. Repeat work means familiar work, his garage is probably more adept at the conversions than just about anyone else

[Guest Roger NE]

£6000 all in sounds pretty reasonable . . . but presumably it would be a lot more with a MANUAL gearbox?

 

And I guess you could probably buy a TT car cheaper in the first place?

 

At the end of the day good engine swaps done by the right people cost, it's just a fact.

 

Not always . . . I just replaced the 7M-GE in my Mk3 with a 2JZ-GE (which obviously took a LOT of research to make everything work properly)

 

Did the whole swap in 2 working days . . . and really pleased with how it all looks stock. Total cost - around £500! (and so far got around £300 back from selling my old engine & ancillaries)

Edited January 24, 2014 by Roger NE (see edit history)

[j_jza80]

I'd never turbo charge an na but that's just me, no matter how you look at it your asking an engine to do something it wasn't designed to do and I don't like the sound of that... But that's just my opinion.

.

 

The 2JZ-GE is one of the better NA engines out there for turbocharging. I can't think of another NA engine out there (of similar price) that can run anywhere near the power of a GE without serious internal work.

[Fly]

yea 6k seems about there, i would say all in my conversion has probably cost me 3k but i started with a six speed, but then the car was slightly more expensive because of it. So looking at it i probably could have had a nice tt, though i went out in an auto uk tt and i think even with a slipping clutch my NA-T just felt different

[Scott]

£6000 all in sounds pretty reasonable . . . but presumably it would be a lot more with a MANUAL gearbox?

 

And I guess you could probably buy a TT car cheaper in the first place?

 

 

Fairly certain I wrote manual. The conversions are approx 3k each from Keron, don't quote me on that though.... you would need to get an up to date cost from Keron himself. Then you would also need to play the waiting game on him getting a TT/Manual in to do the conversion with.

 

Manual TTs can be had for just about any figure you wish to pull out of the sky. I've seen N/A Supra's that I would take over TT's though, it all depends on what's going around the engine rather than focusing on whether there are a couple of snails attached. If you had a mint facelift N/A with good chassis/suspension/bodywork and everything was to your liking, then I think you would be daft to sell for N/A money and then buy a TT.

 

Here's a VERY small breakdown of a possibility (they are fairly endless).

 

Purchase Auto N/A £2k - N/A Auto to TT manual 6k - Resale value approx £6-7k - Spend vs value approx -1k

Purchase Manual TT £7-£10k - Resale value approx £7-10k - Spend vs value Even

Purchase Auto TT £4-7k - Convert to manual £3k - Resale value £6-8k? - Spend vs value approx -£1k to -£2k

 

The above would suggest the difference between converting and changing altogether is approx 1k depending where you start. If you have spent more than 1k making your N/A as good as it can be then it's not going to be worthwhile to buy the TT unless you can guarantee that you won't need to spend similar money all over again bringing the rest of the car to a similar standard.

 

This is the reason I would suggest being very careful with the route you go down, there are so many permutations. If you have an N/A that needs work/money to bring it up to scratch then I would definitely sell and buy TT, similar money may be required to bring it up to scratch but it would be reflected in the resale value far more than it would in an N/A. If you have an N/A with good brakes, good suspension components, wheels, tyres, bodywork, interior, headlights, etc, etc, etc, etc then chances are you're going to have to spend all that money over again on another TT, or at least stretch the budget to cover purchase of one that it's already been done to.

[Guest Roger NE]

Fairly certain I wrote manual.

Sorry - my mistake Scott, I thought that was keeping it Auto.

 

But you've pretty much confirmed what I thought with your detailed costs/values breakdown . . . paying that kind of money to convert a car is not something I would ever consider doing.

 

It's a bit like spending loads of money extending a house . . you very rarely get your money back! I've always sold and bought a bigger house if I wanted more space !! (and saves all the hassle/risk/upheaval)

 

The only reason I did the 2jz conversion on my Mk3 was because a) I hoped the car would only be off the road for a couple of days and b) it would be almost zero cost . . fortunately I was right about both !

 

At the end of the day I know a lot of people seem to enjoy doing work on their car . . . to be honest I hate it ! But I've always done most of my own repairs and maintenance on cars just to save money . . . but it's only things that NEED to be done, and it's certainly not a hobby !

 

Given the choice I would much rather pay someone else to do the work (if I could afford it) . . . or better still, buy a car with all the work already done.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Roger NE (see edit history)

[j_jza80]

There's no way you'll get a full manual conversion for £3k now, gearboxes have recently been going up for £3k on their own. Nearer £4k now inc labour etc.

[skippyboyo1]

The 2JZ-GE is one of the better NA engines out there for turbocharging. I can't think of another NA engine out there (of similar price) that can run anywhere near the power of a GE without serious internal work.

 

As I said, just my personal opinion, I no how good the engine is.

[Scott]

There's no way you'll get a full manual conversion for £3k now, gearboxes have recently been going up for £3k on their own. Nearer £4k now inc labour etc.

 

I would often see gearboxes come up for sale for around the £2.5-£3.5k mark, but Keron would often fit a conversion for similar money. There's no way it would cost £1k in labour to swap out a gearbox. The incentive to buy from Keron is that it's drive in, drive out and his prices are very reasonable.

 

I've rarely seen Keron advertise 6spd conversions or even just the gearboxes alone, as I'm guessing he has a queue forming to get the conversions done so has no need to advertise.

[Big Supes]

Trans tunnel, flywheel, clutch, ecu, gear knob, pedal, clocks and any other bits will push up to nearer 4k.

[j_jza80]

Trans tunnel, flywheel, clutch, ecu, gear knob, pedal, clocks and any other bits will push up to nearer 4k.

 

^^^ this.

[Scott]

Trans tunnel, flywheel, clutch, ecu, gear knob, pedal, clocks and any other bits will push up to nearer 4k.

 

^^^ this.

 

I'm clearly writing in Japanese.

[LOGIE]

I have very recently completed a proper NA-TT auto using ALL the correct parts right down to looms behind the dash. It is NOT cheap. I was going to do a full "honesty" thread on costs surprises and difficulty of parts. Id need to get a notepad and calculator out and then probably weep when I seen the final figure. I actually done the build for educational purposes also.

[Guest Roger NE]

I think most people forget all the extras they have spent along the way ! (as you say, so they don't frighten themselves)

 

With my 2JZ-GE into Mk3 transplant, I have listed every little part you need (and what I paid), as I will soon be doing a detailed write-up to help others wanting to do the same. (I've never found a proper write-up that's complete ANYWHERE, which is why it took me ages doing all the research before I went ahead)

[Rich.2211]

One of the costs I underestimated when doing my NA-T build was for tools/materials. I thought I had everything I needed but soon realised that wasn't the case and ended up spending a fair bit on things such as paint, valve spring compressor, scotch pads, dremel attachments, bolts for engine to engine stand, wire brush attachments, chemicals, helicoil kit, masking tape and a load of other stuff.

 

Even now with the new bits I'm fitting I've already had to buy two additional used SMIC's just to get the brackets for my new uprated intercooler to fit like stock. It's costs like those that everyone under estimates.