secondjump Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 I really wish that they would work well - I just loved Ian's graphs - they look the business - and gained by much sweat and tears I understand (figuratively - in case quoted literally!) Your car too - but can you say it has not been achieved without much work that the average Jo Public could not afford to go through...? I suppose you can class me as 'Joe Public' so here's my two cents worth- When my turbo's died I looked for the best value for money solution for my budget, this ment- a) Find someone who has had real life experience of most forms of mods on the supra (who is readily accessable!) and extract as much info as possible. b) Get a reliable source to supply the parts when you want them and with damn good back up in case things are wrong. c) Build up the guts to install myself (first major job i've had the courage to do and saved a nice wedge ). d) Say thanks to various members on the board who were happy to help with advice, welding spanners and even popping over to just offer encouragement Some of it was a pain in the arse but the feeling at the end was far more enhanced because of the effort put in and the people i have met and made friends with along the way. I think we are fortunate that there is excellent pool of knowledge on the board at our finger tips, it's just a case of seperating the wheat from the chaff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Rather than bugger about with Excel graphs, here are the two datalogs I took just before TOTB, these are the most up-to-date ones I have and they show a fair selection of events, like WOT in 3rd from low rpms and some part throttle and some plain old caning it Draw yer own graphs The fun bits are in yellow and I actually managed to annotate which gear I was in at the time. The datalogging in the E-Manage isn't exactly military grade - you get repeated lines, especially if I hit the rev limiter or the RLTC cuts in. But you'll get the idea of how fast things happen under what conditions. -Ianboost characteristics.xls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branners Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 just to put another view point on this. I had a t-61 budget kit fitted nearly a year ago. I have been running 1.1 bar since without the car being mapped or even the boost controller being changed for speed map etc. The car has 130,000 miles on it and has a stock SMIC (and its shagged), original injectors and a stock clutch and hasnt shown any problems at all. At Bovo the car kept up with all the stock/hybrud based cars and was coming in to its stride as I ran out of runway. The turbo is best run at 1.4bar so its not even boosting to where it should be, thats easily fixed once I have the fueling checked. On the handling circuit at Bovo I was much happier with the singles power delivery, there was no sudden kick to flick the car round and it run perfectly. When I buy my next mkiv (few years away yet) I will get the stock turbos removed and have a single fitted it really does make the car a different beast and much more fun to drive. So you can fit a single with the budget kit and run it safely without needing all manner of electronics. THe car will run better with the electronics but they arent needed. JB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkey Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Wow a long thread! When my stockers went kapt ... it was either single or hybrids. When I was looking for my Supra ... I've driven a Hyrbid TT .. yes there was abit more midrange grunt ... it was bit slower spool up than my decatted stockers. So, for a pure like-4-like turbo replacements .. point of view they are option ..over replacement stockers. However, the single kit is completely different kettle of fish. Mine pulls soooo much more strongly. Full boost is achieved at 3000k .. at 1.1 Bar. My car only needs an Aero FPR and EBC and £150 mapping at Thor .. and then it's 1.4Bar. Which at that boost pressure .. I'm pretty sure it'll make a Hybrid car look silly and a BPU decatted car look sick. With the single kit .. if I want more boost ... (correct me, if I'm wrong) then it's a bigger turbo, bigger injectors, uprated internals and a uprated IC and a remap. You can't do that with Hybrids. You're stuck at 1.4 Bar. My point being ... the single kit .. opens up many more doors for tuning than Hybrids. I notice cost has been banded around in the thread & installation problems. Firstly cost. My setup cost in total about £4k As follows: £1800 Vortex Budget Single kit £700 Fitting £80 Resistor Pack. £150 Injectors £100 Turbo Blanket £105 Flow testing injectors £150 S-AFC 2 £150 S-ITC £160 Replacement SMIC £280 AEM WB 02 Gauge £150 Consumables. £240 Fitting of electronic stuff. Except from the turbo blanket & the Vortex Single kit & maybe the SMIC .. is needed for Hybrids anway. When I was look at Hybrids vs Single. I had the costs side by side on an Excel sheet ... the T61 Single kit was £600 more. Isn't £600 worth the benefits ? Secondly, fitting. Mark from Phoenix -in Watford- did my fitting, the fitting itself went very smoothly .. the only problem we had was availability of Mark's welder. But that was nothing to do with the Single. He was very pleased of how the single conversion went. He said my engine was very clean running, well looked after, regular oil changes etc etc. Mapping / Setup (whichever word) is being done with a S-AFC 2. 'course the E-Manage will always the be ideal solution .. 2nd to a standalone. But I think Branners, Paul Mac's & my setup (as all running the same size injectors .. 550s) proves it can be done with S-AFC2 ~edit~ To add .. My idle is fine. No lumpy idle at hot or cold start. NOTE: I'm not turning this into a Emanage v SAFC thread. There's enough of those. As long as you talk to the right people (they're easy enough to find on this bbs) .. I can't see why you'd have any issues. Lastly, when my car has final mods and setup done. A Hybrid Supra may beat me off the line ... but it won't be for long! I'll be at 1.4bar .. while it'll still be at 0.8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpie Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 just to put another view point on this. I had a t-61 budget kit fitted nearly a year ago. I have been running 1.1 bar since without the car being mapped or even the boost controller being changed for speed map etc. The car has 130,000 miles on it and has a stock SMIC (and its shagged), original injectors and a stock clutch and hasnt shown any problems at all. At Bovo the car kept up with all the stock/hybrud based cars and was coming in to its stride as I ran out of runway. The turbo is best run at 1.4bar so its not even boosting to where it should be, thats easily fixed once I have the fueling checked. On the handling circuit at Bovo I was much happier with the singles power delivery, there was no sudden kick to flick the car round and it run perfectly. When I buy my next mkiv (few years away yet) I will get the stock turbos removed and have a single fitted it really does make the car a different beast and much more fun to drive. So you can fit a single with the budget kit and run it safely without needing all manner of electronics. THe car will run better with the electronics but they arent needed. JB So, all you have done to a BPU UK car is add: SAFC II Aeromotive FPR to raise line pressure a little. and the budget kit and off you go.... ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Ohh just while I Remember: IanC = Stock rings + single Branners = Stock rings + single TerryS = Stock rings + single Secondjump = Stock rings + single Alex = Stock rings + single TRD3000 = Stock rings + single TDaxgav = Stock rings + single ClarkeySparkey = Stock rings + single Dude = Stock rings ( at last spec) + single MattH = Stock rings + single To name but a few ...Are any of you guys showing any signs of ring failure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Can we drop the ring thing now please, it's getting a bit silly, we've worked out the issues with all that now. Next person to put 'ring' in a post has obviously got rings on the mind and is therefore gay! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Ohh just while I Remember: IanC = Stock rings + single Branners = Stock rings + single TerryS = Stock rings + single Secondjump = Stock rings + single Alex = Stock rings + single TRD3000 = Stock rings + single TDaxgav = Stock rings + single ClarkeySparkey = Stock rings + single Dude = Stock rings ( at last spec) + single MattH = Stock rings + single To name but a few ...Are any of you guys showing any signs of ring failure? I bet Dude's ring is feeling the strain by now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 yeah yeah, I'm going to anyway I bet Dude's ring is feeling the strain by now! Hmmm I wonder if theres such a thing as a split rear ring repair kit ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondjump Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 I bet Dude's ring is feeling the strain by now! Just spat my coffee out mate...lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieSteve Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 I bet Dude's ring is feeling the strain by now! pmsl I can't stop laughing at that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopite Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 I bet Dude's ring is feeling the strain by now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregsupra4 Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Hi Ya All, Well two single kits now fitted to mine and samsupra37s car with no problems ( The XSPOWER KITS )and they both go like rockets. Ok mine was the test subject and has a lot more mods than sams including uprated fuel pumps, Apexi F-Mange, 700cc injectors,spitfire coils, Apexi AVC-R,and a few other bits. Sams is still stock in regards to both the ECU and injectors ok we did fit the Apexi AVC-R and set it up for 1.1bar but as some of you may have seen at BOV it was running really well and did not play up at all until the clutch gave in but to be fair it was already on it's way out before the single was fitted. All in all best move we have made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkey Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Just re-read this thread .. afew things to add on my single experience. a) Driving experience. Day-2-Day driving ... there is abit more lag. But it so not very noticeable. Infact .. I find it the lag not cumbersome and it took 5 minutes of driving my car for the first time ... to get used to it. I think it's fair to say, that day-2-day driving .. around town etc ... there doesn't feel much difference between single and the stockers. My point being ... You don't normally drive on positive boost in a 30 limit. Except of course the noise! The single is nicer! b) Insurance. This is pretty much a moot point in my opinion. If you've got the cash to go single, then you've got the cash to insure it. It cost me £270 extra. When my car is all done and sorted ... £270 is a great insurance price-tag for 500 horses. That's with Sky. Who are happy to insure singles. c) Fuel economy. I've noticed better fuel economy on the single than the stockers .. when I'm driving normally .. what with the price of Optimax these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 So will anyone let us all drive their 6 spd single so we can see for ourselves? I've given plenty of demo's and also let a few people have a drive too. Welcome any time I was going to mention my stock rings but.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 LOL shhh ring patrol on defcom 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpie Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Thanks for the info and numbers Christian. May I call on you for a demo sometime ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branners Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 So, all you have done to a BPU UK car is add: SAFC II Aeromotive FPR to raise line pressure a little. and the budget kit and off you go.... ? indeedy, I blew out the 2nd turbo on my way to TOTB last year so took the option to have Vortex drop in a budget kit, I was on a serious budget so didnt do anything outside of getting the single on, having a new fuel pump put in (precaution only, UK spec ones should be good enough but after 130,000 miles I thought mine might be tired), getting the A FPR and getting the SAFCII put in. Since then I havent adjusted a single thing on the car, its as it came out of Miggies garden. Im now legendary with the Vortex guys for not getting the thing mapped but its running well so Im not rushing off to get it mapped cos then I will turn the boost up and probably find the shagged SMIC is a weak point. Hybrids were a consideration for me last year but Im most pleased I went with a single. I will take you for a run in it at the next meet. JB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpie Posted August 23, 2005 Share Posted August 23, 2005 Cheers JB, your fuel pump did spring to mind when I read your original post I look forward to a demo ride Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carl0s Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 I was going to ask if you could run low boost on a single and not need mapping done. Thanks for answering that John. Is a Garret GT42R smaller than a T61? I was thinking that a small-single would be interesting, and I'd definately want to use the stock SMIC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 A GT42R is A massive turbo with 1000 BHP properties ...Bit too big for road apps. Lets put it this way A GT42R is near on double the physical size of a T61. Here is an example T67 on the left and a GT42R on the right with the Charge snail missing. Notice the Vband fixing to hold the snail in place and its 1" bigger all round that that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carl0s Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 ah, sorry, I meant GT35R http://www.t04r.com/turbo.php?id=7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 ah, sorry, I meant GT35R http://www.t04r.com/turbo.php?id=7 Carlos the GT35R has a very similar sized inducer to the T61 and a larger exducer, If you imagine the compressor wheel as a cone the inducer is the front of the cone and the exducer the rear ( larger) part. Hope that helps. As Mig said, the GT42R is a Monster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samsupra37 Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 So will anyone let us all drive their 6 spd single so we can see for ourselves? If you are at the Jap show in Oct you will be more than welcome to try my single and have a go.......if you dare!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyefi Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 Rather than bugger about with Excel graphs, here are the two datalogs I took just before TOTB doesn't work for me, just get gobbledigook. does it work for anyone else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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