hodge Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 The best way to understand it and see the difference between dynos is do what i did mate, put your own car on them and see the difference, imo hub figures from a rototest or dynapack are about the same as a flywheel number you would get from a dyno dynamics rolling road. Im going the other way now, small turbo going back on soon, i miss the super fast spool. I was getting my head around all that until Robby stuck his N/A on the Dynopack hub Dyno I explained in a previous post. 176HP is very low if you ask me, and driving it it's MUCH nore powerful than that. I dyno'd my car at PD tuning on a roller Dyno up her in Durham when the car was an N/A and it made 207 HP and robbys car feels way way quicker than mine ever was. I'm not a tallented enough driver to handle a fast spooling car if I'm totally honest. I love a little lag it gives me confidence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 The difference between DIN and SAE is minimal, at a 1000bhp you are only talking 14bhp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hodge Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 The dynapack can show flywheel horsepower as well as hub HP. I spoke with Mark and it depends on how the operator has it setup but it can be used for both. Also most of the fudge figures are not in DIN mode but a corrected SAE figure. The un corrected DIN figure is a good one to use. FWIW my Brother's GTR dyno'd 510 at the hubs, which mark advised would be around 580 ATF. He had it done a little while later at a DD dyno and it made 595bhp.... A dyno is just for tuning, use it for that IMO. Figures on any dyno will just be a ballpark estimate.... Hey Amir Sorry to sound thick but what does DIN and SAE mean bud? That's interesting about the Dynopack reading flywheel figures, when my car is dyno'd again I'll speak to Dan about having a run on both settings to see the difference. Be interesting to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous brain Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 375 at the wheels is a very good figure for a bpu, up there with the highest ive ever heard. I took the car down to Dude one weekend as it was over-boosting and he rode behind me and his words were "that's not shy is it?" It was a bloody quick TT when I sold it. Gruggs dessimated it and it ended up as a rolling shell for sale very recently in a controversial thread which was a shame really. Anyways thread hijack over lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky49 Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 (edited) If i remember correctly when Lee took my car to SRR I think I made 675 with Traction issues. Then i went to TDI and made 644 at the hubs and later in the year it made 648 at the hubs at Dans place. Edited June 4, 2012 by Ricky49 (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DARETT Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 The difference between DIN and SAE is minimal, at a 1000bhp you are only talking 14bhp. Its depends on the correction factor though. There's alot of ways to get that dyno reading one way or another. Hey Amir Sorry to sound thick but what does DIN and SAE mean bud? That's interesting about the Dynopack reading flywheel figures, when my car is dyno'd again I'll speak to Dan about having a run on both settings to see the difference. Be interesting to see. They're just the correction figures used by the dyno. This can leave the figures open to manipulation. If the sensor to measure conditions is put in a very warm place that correction figure will be pretty high and inflate the figures. It's the same with a DD dyno as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 (edited) Correction factor has no effect on the difference between DIN and SAE. When my new turbo is fitted i will take it to SRR and a hub dyno and a dynojet to see what the difference is. Edited June 4, 2012 by JamieP (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DARETT Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 On my own car the difference was a little more than 14hp. The highest figure was over 1000 and the din was 946... SAE measures with barometric pressure, humidity, and temperature. DIN is just the pressure and temp. Obviously if the humidity is high due to the conditions, the SAE figure will be higher than the DIN, the difference in humidity will dictate the HP difference. I only found out this stuff after having a very long conversation about these dyno's with Mark @Abbey. He has been a little intrigued with some of the figures that come from the dynapack at AME in the 350z world and also at my own pump figures. The 350's make a fair bit more power on the AME dynapack than on his own, I put it down to the superior dyno cell of AME, however it is known to read higher than other places. I know with Abbey's dynapack that the results always come out to as what is the known standard for each car. Also with their race car being on an engine dyno before, it shows their figures are pretty much spot on for around 15% losses compared to engine HP. Ryan mapped my car beautifully on pump and it drove like a dream, so if another dyno read 50hp lower it still wouldn't effect me. At the end of the day the best tuning dyno out there is a hub dyno. I wouldn't get too hung up on figures and test it at each place as it doesn't matter as long as the car performs as it should. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 So you are saying its just Dans dyno that over reads? Myself and ricky49 got the same numbers from TDI and AME. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DARETT Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 I thought you only used AME for the 1100+ runs? I'm not saying AME over reads, but saying it doesn't matter to me. People in the industry do think AME's dyno makes good power. It's one of the best setups around for tuning though, and I'd use it again without issue, as long as my car drives how it should be it don't matter if the dyno reads 500 or 2000hp. I don't agree with the thoughts that some have, of hub HP being equal to crank HP. It physically cannot be an equal measurement. If the figures are equal than there must be an issue somewhere in one of the readings. I used abbey as an example as they are the only company whom I know of that have had an engine on an engine dyno and then installed on a hub dyno. The results were no way near the same, with a real 15% loss from the crank to hub figure. Im just pointing out that dyno figures are in the whole scheme of things, just a ballpark figure rather than an exact measurement. If your using one type of dyno and your using that to measure the performance increase between mods, why compare it to any other figures from another dyno? It just doesn't make sense to me, as it won't affect how the car drives at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 I thought you only used AME for the 1100+ runs? I'm not saying AME over reads, but saying it doesn't matter to me. People in the industry do think AME's dyno makes good power. It's one of the best setups around for tuning though, and I'd use it again without issue, as long as my car drives how it should be it don't matter if the dyno reads 500 or 2000hp. I don't agree with the thoughts that some have, of hub HP being equal to crank HP. It physically cannot be an equal measurement. If the figures are equal than there must be an issue somewhere in one of the readings. I used abbey as an example as they are the only company whom I know of that have had an engine on an engine dyno and then installed on a hub dyno. The results were no way near the same, with a real 15% loss from the crank to hub figure. Im just pointing out that dyno figures are in the whole scheme of things, just a ballpark figure rather than an exact measurement. If your using one type of dyno and your using that to measure the performance increase between mods, why compare it to any other figures from another dyno? It just doesn't make sense to me, as it won't affect how the car drives at all. I started to write a big reply then could not be arsed and deleted it. Most of what you are saying i know and agree with, i cant comment on Abbey as ive never used them. If you dont care about the numbers and its all in the way the car drives why post in this thread and why have your dyno numbers in your sig? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DARETT Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Lol Coz everyone else cares about them!! Hahaha In seriousness though I don't care if a hub dyno is 50hp plus or minus compared to another dyno, as I will only be using a hub dyno and not any other for tuning, which is my point the hub figures are only relevant for that car and that dyno. I only posted in the thread as I didn't agree with people thinking hub HP is equal to crank HP. NB I'm mostly on my phone when online so can't be bothered to change much on my profile. Most of the car spec is completely different to the garage list as well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hodge Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 I've learnt a lot from this thread cheers guys, I appreciate your inputs, I feel slightly more educated now. 1 thing I have learnt, which no-one has actually posted in black and white is, quoting Dyno figured is all about c0ck waving. Nothing more, nothing less. I fell into that trap once my car was dyno'd. If someone asks you what power your car is running, your odviously going to give them the larger figure of the 3, it's an Alfa male thing hence my mag feature quoting 914hp, which with the 15% is what I thought the car was, as Jamie did in the same issue of the mag quoting 1236hp Iirc. As I've posted previously, when the car comes onto boost it actually takes my breath away and it makes me grin uncontrolably (when I havnt got fueling issues lol). In hindsight, in relation to the driving experience of the car, horsepower doesn't matter, but in the world of c0ck waving it's all that matters because it's the most asked question of a tuned car owners. Now, I've only got a little nob, but like every man I do love to give it a little wave now and then, I'm a man after all like you all are. I'll never make as much power as the likes of DARRET, Jamie, Paul Whiffin, dude, etc etc but if I get anywhere near 4 figures at my next Dyno session, I'll be more than happy to wave mine around for quite a while. I hope no-one has taken offense at this cos it wasn't ment as such, it's just how things seem to me that's all. The club should be proud of all the quality it's produced over the last few years. We seem to be cleaning up everywhere we go, be it drag, mile, or show n shine etc etc. I can't think of any other clubs with such strength in depth, we should all be waving out nobs together not at eachother, in a heterosexual sort of way of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 John, i have done the adding 15% to hubs figures myself, but i dont think thats right anymore after I did a bit more research, My turbo is only rated to 1200bhp, the most any yanks have had out of one is a 1000whp on race fuel yet i made 1132 at the hubs on pump fuel. I gave the magazine my hub figure, they converted it themselves, they also timed one of my videos 0-200 and added that in, i had no input on either, anyone asks me how much power my car has i say about a 1000bhp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mario Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Hodge are you running 914hp on a stock motor or is yours built. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hodge Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 John, i have done the adding 15% to hubs figures myself, but i dont think thats right anymore after I did a bit more research, My turbo is only rated to 1200bhp, the most any yanks have had out of one is a 1000whp on race fuel yet i made 1132 at the hubs on pump fuel. I gave the magazine my hub figure, they converted it themselves, they also timed one of my videos 0-200 and added that in, i had no input on either, anyone asks me how much power my car has i say about a 1000bhp. I'm not having a go mate, I'm honestly not. But if your car was 850whp wouldn't you add the 15% to make that 1000hp, cos I would and so would 99.9% of other people. Which is why my comment "Dyno figures are all about nob waving". Your always going to be probably the most talked about supra owner ever, I get people asking about you all the time and we've only met once. I usually get "mate, your cars stunning, how much HP is it", followed by "Jamie.Ps supra is crazy isn't it". I'd ask them Ahhh do you know Jamie, every one of them answer "ermmm NO, I just watch him on YouTube". They all talk as if they grew up with you, but it's all about the HP figures you've put out are insane. No-one would care if you were BPU, you can wave away, people won't even take a second look. Big HP figures make your nob grow to the size of a UBBER cucumber. You know what I mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hodge Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Hodge are you running 914hp on a stock motor or is yours built. Ermmmm, it goes pretty quick on a stock pistons and rods power wise, who knows, my nob is on holiday lol. Seriously though, only pistons n rods are stock, the bottom end was rebuilt, ACL bearing, ARP main bolts, rod bolts and head studs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mario Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Ermmmm, it goes pretty quick on a stock pistons and rods power wise, who knows, my nob is on holiday lol. Seriously though, only pistons n rods are stock, the bottom end was rebuilt, ACL bearing, ARP main bolts, rod bolts and head studs. Pretty amazing what stock pistons and rods can handle powerwise, thanks for sharing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 I'm not having a go mate, I'm honestly not. But if your car was 850whp wouldn't you add the 15% to make that 1000hp, cos I would and so would 99.9% of other people. Which is why my comment "Dyno figures are all about nob waving". Your always going to be probably the most talked about supra owner ever, I get people asking about you all the time and we've only met once. I usually get "mate, your cars stunning, how much HP is it", followed by "Jamie.Ps supra is crazy isn't it". I'd ask them Ahhh do you know Jamie, every one of them answer "ermmm NO, I just watch him on YouTube". They all talk as if they grew up with you, but it's all about the HP figures you've put out are insane. No-one would care if you were BPU, you can wave away, people won't even take a second look. Big HP figures make your nob grow to the size of a UBBER cucumber. You know what I mean. Couple of weeks mate and my car will be back in the 700-800 bhp range, whatever power the dyno operator gives me is what I will be quoting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted June 4, 2012 Author Share Posted June 4, 2012 ^^ Best way to be, I'd never consider myself competent enough to start quoting calculations of power. To be honest, I actually feel pretty low on power when I come on here alot. Alot of people in my area think my car's pretty nippy, and fair enough compared to most sport car's that people I tell my friend's what I ran at SRR, most the time I don't tell people, as people always expect something outrageous and someone will ALWAYS have a friends mate or family who has something with more power, so now I just don't bother I just say she's nippy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelboyne Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 personally i would prefer to be a member of a gps 200mph club rather then hp figure, i have to say my uk turbos at 1.4 bar really provide enough power on the road at tdi it made 405hp/405 torque and made 435hp/435 torque on a dynapack. what i do know is i have had it a 178mph gps ran out of road and when ernie tried to pull away in his new gtr from 60mph i was 2 car lenghts behind all the time reaching speeds in excess of 130mph. there rated to be 500 odd hp i think. eventually i think if i could go single would a gtx35rr turbo put me in the 200mph club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 personally i would prefer to be a member of a gps 200mph club rather then hp figure, i have to say my uk turbos at 1.4 bar really provide enough power on the road at tdi it made 405hp/405 torque and made 435hp/435 torque on a dynapack. what i do know is i have had it a 178mph gps ran out of road and when ernie tried to pull away in his new gtr from 60mph i was 2 car lenghts behind all the time reaching speeds in excess of 130mph. there rated to be 500 odd hp i think. eventually i think if i could go single would a gtx35rr turbo put me in the 200mph club. BPU supra and it made 435bhp at the hubs on a dynapack? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2 MSW Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 (edited) Intresting thread, Ive fallen foul of this myself when mine last went on a hub dyno and made 677 rhhp. I was doing what others have done and using the 15% figure to work out the fwhp. Was then corrected by Jamie who was saying its incorrect and would be more like 650 fwhp. Now whilst I disagree with the figure I do agree with the theory and we should only be quoting actual measured figures. Im happy with the rhhp figure and will be even happier when I actually get the car on the road and see what that sort of power feels like Edited June 5, 2012 by T2 MSW (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelboyne Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 BPU supra and it made 435bhp at the hubs on a dynapack? yes mate i will dig it out almost sure it was at a supra skyline weekend up north of ireland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 yes mate i will dig it out almost sure it was at a supra skyline weekend up north of ireland If them figures are true and people stand by the adding 15% to hub results, you have the most powerful bpu supra in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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