adnanshah247 Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 What I can't understand, with respect, is with the sort of budgets mentioned above, you are looking at a big block Chevy N/A engine? If the car is to be street driven with occasional drag strip runs a properly built on management old school 8 litre alloy jobbie seems a far more suitable power plant than a ragged to the limit stroker straight six with turbo lag. 8 litres! jamie will need to tow a petrol station with him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jevansio Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 What I can't understand, with respect, is with the sort of budgets mentioned above, you are looking at a big block Chevy N/A engine? If the car is to be street driven with occasional drag strip runs a properly built on management old school 8 litre alloy jobbie seems a far more suitable power plant than a ragged to the limit stroker straight six with turbo lag. i think it's all about working with what we have, as soon as you go to a different engine there is no comparing what you have with what other Supra people have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adnanshah247 Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 i think it's all about working with what we have, as soon as you go to a different engine there is no comparing what you have with what other Supra people have. true, if you take the engine out it isnt technically a supra anymore, it just looks like one..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny g Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 i think it's all about working with what we have, as soon as you go to a different engine there is no comparing what you have with what other Supra people have. Area under the curve is all that matters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 true, if you take the engine out it isnt technically a supra anymore, it just looks like one..... Oh no don't even go there. When is a supra not a Supra. JGTC anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tDR Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 IMO (and I have made the point before), built engines are hassle full stop never mind the major engine surgery to get to 3.4L. Every built engine I've followed for a while (and had personal involvement in) has given up the ghost in one way or another. I remember Leon Green saying his HKS 3.4 failed and was working with HKS to build another... no idea how many he's been through in the end. For a durable street car with blistering performance I still think the best option is keep the engine as close to how Toyota intended with a moderate size turbo kit of decent quality, appropriate fuel system and Syvecs or similar ECU controlling it assuming a manual. Like you'd started out with the black car before going built engine, bigger turbo etc. It might not be pushing the boundaries but doing that always ends up pushing the limits of available funding and giving you a less reliable setup you get to use less of the time because it ends up off the road. My 2p Cheers, Brian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamesy Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 For a durable street car with blistering performance I still think the best option is keep the engine as close to how Toyota intended with a moderate size turbo kit of decent quality, appropriate fuel system and Syvecs or similar ECU controlling it assuming a manual. . Ryan's now got the Syvecs working on Auto's too Bri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 (edited) 8 litres! jamie will need to tow a petrol station with him! 3.4 litre boosted with 2 bar absolute of pressure = 6.8 litres with less efficiency than a similar capacity N/A Big N/A has much lower heat rejection issues than a heavily turbo charged smaller capacity engine, simpler plumbing and, what you really want when you talk of lag and where it comes on boost, more area under the power curve. But if keeping a straight six that originated from Toyota is important then it ain't going to appeal. Edited November 3, 2010 by Chris Wilson (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jevansio Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 3.4 litre boosted with 2 bar of pressure = 6.8 litres with less efficiency than a similar capacity N/A Big N/A has much lower heat rejection issues than a heavily turbo charged smaller capacity engine, simpler plumbing and, what you really want when you talk of lag and where it comes on boost, more area under the power curve. But if keeping a straight six that originated from Toyota is important then it ain't going to appeal. 3.4l with 2 bar = 10.2l Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted November 3, 2010 Author Share Posted November 3, 2010 (edited) I'm on my iPhone, sat on a digger at work so will keep it short:) Adnan, watching them videos of the GT47 equipped supras gives me the horn and is what I want, with regards to building a kit car, I can't think of anything worse. Big V8 swap don't interest me tbh Chris, I love 2jz and massive turbos. Johnny, lost me a bit with that that one but I think I know what you mean, if the area under the curve is what concerns you most, you have bought the wrong turbo kit IMO. Jamie:) Edited November 3, 2010 by JamieP (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 3.4l with 2 bar = 10.2l Edited to hide my shame... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandan Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 edited to hide my shame... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagman Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 3.4 will give you about 35 bhp more times the boost ratio if the engine is 100 % efficient . But you now increase the piston ring speed , and at higher boost , this is not good. You also increase the rod loading ,again at higher rpms , not good. You also increase the combustion temps at max torque , without provision for this again not good . You are buying more failure potential along with increase in power, but if you have the cash ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 For a durable street car with blistering performance I still think the best option is keep the engine as close to how Toyota intended with a moderate size turbo kit of decent quality, appropriate fuel system and Syvecs or similar ECU controlling it assuming a manual. Wise words, completely agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted November 3, 2010 Author Share Posted November 3, 2010 We are talking T6 turbos here, forget a stock engine, you need need big revs for anything bigger than 71mm imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davej705 Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 (edited) 3.4 will give you about 35 bhp more times the boost ratio if the engine is 100 % efficient . But you now increase the piston ring speed , and at higher boost , this is not good. You also increase the rod loading ,again at higher rpms , not good. You also increase the combustion temps at max torque , without provision for this again not good . You are buying more failure potential along with increase in power, but if you have the cash ..... I wont pretend to know what i'm talking about here but when you build a 3.4 strokered engine aren't this points factored in? I would have thought the increased rod loading would be covered by the uprated rods that are used. Are uprated piston rings used? The combustion temps should be accounted for when building one shouldn't they? extra cooling used etc. I understand you are using the block in a way toyota didn't account for when designing it but if all of your points are considered when building it can't it be made reliable? Edited November 3, 2010 by davej705 (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted November 3, 2010 Author Share Posted November 3, 2010 (edited) I wont pretend to know what i'm talking about here but when you build a 3.4 strokered engine aren't this points factored in? I would have thought the increased rod loading would be covered by the uprated rods that are used. Are uprated piston rings used? The combustion temps should be accounted for when building one shouldn't they? extra cooling used etc. I understand you are using the block in a way toyota didn't account for when designing it but if all of your points are considered when building it can't it be made reliable? Everything is supposed to be "uprated" no more than a built 3.0L rods/pistons/bearings would be though, stroker engines get worked hard, nothing you can do about that, Yanks seem to do well with 3.4's, all the fastest cars are 3.4L, i just dont want to be the one to test them out over here. Edited November 3, 2010 by JamieP (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davej705 Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 Everything is supposed to be "uprated" no more than a built 3.0L rods/pistons/bearings would be though, stroker engines get worked hard, nothing you can do about that, Yanks seem to do well with 3.4's, all the fastest cars are 3.4L, i just dont want to be the one to test them out over here. What do they do differently? Is it the quality of there engine builders or components used? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted November 3, 2010 Author Share Posted November 3, 2010 What do they do differently? Is it the quality of there engine builders or components used? I dont know if they do anything different, 3.4's have not been widely used in the uk, i know of two members in the uk that have had them and both have had a lot of trouble, i hear JPS had 3.4 kit and also had trouble with it, he runs a 3.0L now and does 7 second 1/4's on that:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 What do they do differently? Is it the quality of there engine builders or components used? They don't do anything different to what is done/can be done here. They just have a different outlook, more cash and the ability NOT to tell anyone when things go bang! Don't think for one minute that half of these achievements credited by our American cousins were obtained first time out of the block without failures. Quite a few of the big hitter drag 3.4's also run filled blocks which highly compromises cooling in a road car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted November 3, 2010 Author Share Posted November 3, 2010 Dont get me wrong, im not saying its not worth going 3.4L, i just want to see a few last before i spend all that money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davej705 Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 Food for thought Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DARETT Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 There are a few different things that need to be done to the oiling system to try and prolong engine life in a 3.4. These modifications though didn't come about without trial and error, and as Miguel advises in the US they have blown a load of 3.0/3.4's before getting to the stage that they are at now. Filled blocks are helpful for the drag guys, but for the street/drag setups it's not possible and the oil system needs to be looked at. These engines are very hard on bearing life, and apart from getting the clearances/tolerances to the right setup a few other modifications for oil pressure help alot. On my own car we don't run an oil cooler, rather we have modified the sump for a much larger capacity, increasing oil pressure as well as keeping temps low. Removing the piston squirters also helps retain higher pressure, and they are more of a hindrance with these setups. There's a few other things carried out to the oil filter setup system, as well as the block and all ensure an extensive engine life. The 3.4 in Cody's car for instance has hit a few 8 second passes, numerous nines, numerous dyno hits, and numerous mile runs at over 200 mph, without any motor related issues to date.... There will be no doubt some issues with some of them once they are built over here and over there, however the setup does work when you get it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurgen-Jm-Imports Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 i know of another 3.4l in UK.. details will be on my website over weekend,. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted November 3, 2010 Author Share Posted November 3, 2010 How much extra oil do you get in it Amir? any pictures of these sumps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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