xs power intercoolers?

[terribleturner]

I had the GReddy 2 row on mine which obviosly would not supply enough cool charged air for my final goal with the car.

 

Are you saying the internals are the thing that is different?? Just from the way some of the posts read i understood it was the angle at which the air entered and exited the system. Again i'd be intrested to see the comparrisons of the internals as i havn't seen these.

 

They are very cheap compared to the named brands, and they do say you pay cheap you get cheap, but i have to admit im not seeing alot of evidence to say they are inefficent. If they are crap and contribute to problems then fine, but i don't think you can condem something because it's cheap.

[Jake]

i have to admit im not seeing alot of evidence to say they are inefficent.

Look at the end tank design in my above post. What more evidence could anyone need?

 

If they are crap and contribute to problems then fine, but i don't think you can condem something because it's cheap.

Who was condeming them for being cheap? We're condeming them because they are a poor design.

[Homer]

Again i'd be intrested to see the comparrisons of the internals as i havn't seen these.

 

James, don't take it the wrong way but I don't think you understand the dynamics of how air flows in a pressured system - particularly one containing an air-air cooler. It'll take fooking ages to explain here and to be fair without a decent engineering/physics background it wouldn't make much sense.

 

They are very cheap compared to the named brands, and they do say you pay cheap you get cheap

 

The term is "You pay cheap - you pay twice". A hard and expensive lesson to learn!

[terribleturner]

Look at the end tank design in my above post. What more evidence could anyone need?

Ah now the pictures are there it makes more sense

 

James, don't take it the wrong way but I don't think you understand the dynamics of how air flows in a pressured system - particularly one containing an air-air cooler. The term is "You pay cheap - you pay twice". A hard and expensive lesson to learn!

I understand it just im the sort of person who likes to understand it things better than to take someones word for it. It's all very well being told this and that but i have an inquizative mind and like to know the in's and out's.

An expensive lesson in deed, but only if there ever is a problem of course.

[Nick]

I'm with Homer and Jake on this.

 

There's a lot of cheap and nasty stuff on the market now, and I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.

 

Not all branded stuff is worth the money, a lot of it is rebadged and expensive because it's shiny and a pretty colour. Bottom line is with quality stuff you're paying for the R&D as well as the materials and labour, true for any product.

[Nic]

Long, but well worth a read.

 

http://www.are.com.au/techtalk/intecoolersMR.htm

[toyotatom]

hi guys, has anyone got an xspower intercooler, 600x300x100, what sort of power can they handle and are they 4 row? will they fit behind stock bumper?

i know turbo fit do alot of these, do they do a hard pipe and fitting kit? cheers for any info

 

Ive had a side mount, an HKS TypeS FMIC, an XS Power 4row FMIC and a Greddy VSPL 3row FMIC.

 

Anything is better than the side mount but thats pretty much a given. Out of the others, and this purely out of quality and value for money, Id say the Greddy wins hands down. Bearing in mind that the latter three were aimed at being future proof in terms of engine upgrading.

 

HKS typeS = lot of money, and when you open the box you do kind of wonder where all that money just went. Very good fit, eventually, after a lot of mucking about. Bit small, so maybe limiting in the future. Old design. Very thin silicone connectors.

 

XS Power = cheap as chips for a big cooler. Niggling little manufacturing issues like brackets not always lining up. End tank design notiecably different. Custom pipework needed, where do you stand if it comes back wrong.

 

Greddy VSPL = right on the button. Big price tag, but worth it. Excellent pipework. Complete kit. Very good quality components. Constantly evolving design (kit gets tweaked every so often) fits first time. Pretty much future proof.

 

Just my 2p worth. Hope it helps

[CJ]

...

HKS typeS = lot of money, and when you open the box you do kind of wonder where all that money just went. Very good fit, eventually, after a lot of mucking about. Bit small, so maybe limiting in the future. Old design. Very thin silicone connectors....

 

 

I would say the same for the Blitz LM. Good design (albeit older now) but the pipework and fittings were crap. No beads on the pipes and silicone that you could read a newspeaper through

[JamieP]

 

Gazza, I don't think you need to worry since you're in BPU territory

 

homer....so basicaly your saying it will be fine on fat controllers car?

 

Jake.... this has nothing to do with my prefered tunner.. they will sell you any make intercooler you like.. im just speaking from first hand experience of seeing these intercoolers work on the rd and rollers.

 

Ive been searching on supraforum to see if i can find any evidence of these being poor quality over there, as i dont want to fit one to mine if there is somthing wrong with them..nothing yet, much the same as here... few say yes there good and a few saying no there cheap shit but with nothing proven..

[Ian C]

There are two things you can test on an intercooler:

 

1) Pressure drop

2) Efficiency

 

1) - You measure the intake pressure just before and just after the intercooler. A restrictive intercooler will require more effort by the turbo to shovel air through it. That means the pressure will drop as the air slows down while trying to wrestle it's way through the 'cooler.

 

A good intercooler drops, I think from memory, under 2psi of boost. 1psi would be admirable.

 

2) - You measure the ambient temperature, the temperature of the air going into the intercooler, and the temperature coming back out (I assume there should be some standard airspeed over the intercooler as well). So if ambient is 20degC, the turbo spits out 80degC air, and the intercooler drops it down to 30degC, the efficiency is (80-30) / (80-20) *100. This example, then, would have an efficiency of 83% as it removes 83% of the heat the turbo puts in.

 

Now, there is a balancing act - to cool the air, it has to stay in the intercooler as long as possible. It stays in by making the path through the fins (turbulators) more convoluted and exposes the air to more surface area. However the longer it's in the 'cooler, the higher the resultant pressure drop. If the pressure drops too much you'd have to wind the boost up turbo-side and that puts more heat in the intake air - and the intercooler cannot be 100% efficient so you end up with a hotter intake charge that can cancel out the extra efficiency you got by slowing the air down.

 

With the branded intercoolers, you'd like to think they have done some serious design work to balance pressure drop vs cooling effect, in order to achieve the best efficiency balance. And I thik they have, to a point. With the cheap ones, I suspect they have designed something on paper that looks kinda smooth and that's it

 

A middling intercooler would be unbalanced towards one trait - either it flows fast but cools poorly or it cools well but drops too much pressure. These may be design or packaging limitations, or a certain interpretation of the application they will be used for. A poor intercooler would have a high pressure drop and a low efficiency - instead of it being unbalanced in favour of one attribute it's just pants all round due to bad design. End tanks are usually the #1 factor in this area as they feed in the air and ease it back out. Poor flow distribution across the 'cooler would lower efficiency, and poor flow paths slow the air due to turbulence, and thus drop pressure.

 

A test of pressure and efficiency would be pretty easy and very definitive to all but the most avid tinfoil hatted tuner fans - alas people seem allergic to testing intercoolers, and I haven't the facilities to do it myself so maybe we'll never know

 

-Ian

[Ian C]

 

I broke the thread

[MONKEYmark]

I would say the same for the Blitz LM. Good design (albeit older now) but the pipework and fittings were crap. No beads on the pipes and silicone that you could read a newspeaper through

i had a blitz lm vspec and had beads on my pipes.it was a tight fit getting pipes to line up but would not say the silicone was crap.the end tanks had lots of pourus holes when i was polishing it.

i would give the xs power one a try for the money.you going to have to get custom pipe work made up for a single install.

the greddy 4 row looks the biz but has a price to match.

some big power drag supras doing pretty well on ebay parts in usa. also i would not go through the wing.try a more direct route inbetween chassis legs if possible

[Homer]

homer....so basicaly your saying it will be fine on fat controllers car?

 

Yes, its fine, but not the best of his options, see post 22

 

Ian, great write up and explaination as always

[JamieP]

Yes, its fine

 

Exactly what i said in post 2, but we needed five pages for you to agree:D

[Homer]

Exactly what i said in post 2, but we needed five pages for you to agree:D

 

What a few are trying to explain is that there ARE other options, and choosing the XS power MAY not be the best option in his situation. Just simply replying with 'yes' isn't giving the full picture, or even the best advice, hence the rest of the thread.. Only trying to help the guy make an informed decision

[fat_controller]

thanks homer and evey1 else, advice taken in and i'm going for the greddy, the way i see it is that it's brand,easy to fit and perect for bpu. i think i would sell my supe and buy 1 already done if i wanted a single, so theres no need for anything bigger. thanks

[mr keef]

I installed an xs power cooler on my car...with custom pipework and before i installed the cooler i showed it to a fabricator,he builds rads coolers choppers all kinds of custom stuff and he said it was an excellent cooler,excellent quality,and when i installed it,the difference it made was fantastic.But like i always say there is people who would say hks greddy etc etc are better because of the name,but i think they talk shit:)

[Alex]

I installed an xs power cooler on my car...with custom pipework and before i installed the cooler i showed it to a fabricator,he builds rads coolers choppers all kinds of custom stuff and he said it was an excellent cooler,excellent quality,and when i installed it,the difference it made was fantastic.But like i always say there is people who would say hks greddy etc etc are better because of the name,but i think they talk shit:)

 

 

FFS just cause someone can weld doesn't mean they know shit about AIRFLOW and FLUID DYNAMICS...

 

Rip the end tank off it and show me the airflow conditioners...Explain to me how the air can properly get to the top of the IC??

 

Yes it "works" but as said it's not good enough for a high quality car...especially if you're trying to extract 50+% more power than stock.

[mr keef]

FFS just cause someone can weld doesn't mean they know shit about AIRFLOW and FLUID DYNAMICS...

 

Rip the end tank off it and show me the airflow conditioners...Explain to me how the air can properly get to the top of the IC??

 

Yes it "works" but as said it's not good enough for a high quality car...especially if you're trying to extract 50+% more power than stock.

 

why not rip a fekin hks one up and show me?

[mr keef]

Yes it "works" but as said it's not good enough for a high quality car...

 

bollox

[GeordieSteve]

Are there tests that can be done to prove how efficient both units are? (probs already been covered but I'm lazy). I'd be prepared to test both on my GT4088

[Homer]

Are there tests that can be done to prove how efficient both units are? (probs already been covered but I'm lazy). I'd be prepared to test both on my GT4088

 

Been discussed mate, see Ian C's post.

 

Unfortunately no one seems to have the equipment to do the test. I've got the IC's, but can only do temp tests one point at a time so not much use...

[fat_controller]

i didn't realise what a can of worms i was gonna open with this 1. lol

[chilli]

it seems no one has any proof either way? i.e. that XS are worse than other brand names, but based on the complete lack of evidence and just speculation maybe it could actually even be better

 

after all you can't tell much from the outside other than the end tanks are a bit shallower, big deal does that mean it is rubbish - no not with certainty and anyway it only needs to be 'good enough' for the application it is used in...

[Jezz]

I have a new xs fmic. Only difference i see is a 2-3 psi boost loss. But man, its so much more aggresive on boost. Neck snapping. Be interesting to fit a hks unit to see how much difference there actually is.