carl0s Posted September 20, 2006 Author Share Posted September 20, 2006 Why? You can enter a box junction if your exit (i.e. Viaduct Road) is clear. Maybe make the point that when you entered the box, Viaduct Road was clear That's my understanding too. Viaduct Road was clear all along.. Is there something else that I'm missing Michael? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carl0s Posted September 20, 2006 Author Share Posted September 20, 2006 *shrug* I was waiting because there were oncoming cars coming up Manchester Rd. Viaduct road is a quiet dead-end road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear. However, you may enter the box and wait when you want to turn right, and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right. http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/images/150_box_junct.gif My mistake, apologies. Still your fault though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carl0s Posted September 20, 2006 Author Share Posted September 20, 2006 [qimg]http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/images/150_box_junct.gif[/qimg] My mistake, apologies. Still your fault though Phew! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoboblio Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 It's absolutely worth hammering home that the car you hit was giving a misleading signal. I had an similar accident last year in my runabout, and it was settled 75% 25% in the other party's favour, because of a previous case where a motorcyclist gave a misleading signal. To be honest I thought I got shafted considering the circumstances especially considering that the old coffin dodger admitted intentionally indicating wrongly and had all the time in the world to stop once I'd pulled out of the junction (reaction time measured in ice ages). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guru Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 The crosshatching will be a big problem too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheefa Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 Coming from an Insurance and Claims Handling background mate I believe you have a case. What could however be detrimental to the claim is whether verbal liability was admitted by yourself (or the other party) at the time and whether witnesses were present to substantiate this. I t is taken as an own-fault admission when filling in a claim form if liability was admitted in the immediate aftermatrh of the incident and can be supported by others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colsoop Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 I wouldn't admit liability at all, just send in the diagram and let the insurance companies duke it out. If you are at fault they will let you know soon enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoboblio Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 Don't feel guilty at all about letting the insurance company fight your corner, that's what you pay them for. Given how you've described the other driver's actions it would be unfair for them to get away without at least a portion of the blame - indicators are there for a reason, regardless of what the law says! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin_a Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 She was indicating, so I went. i reckon that is all you need to say. you pay the premium to let them sort it. plus you see people parking on double yellows, driving through bus lanes, turning up one way streets and realising they are in the wrong lane to make a turn each day. I wouldn't speculate on why the indicator was on, you can't know that. Just say she made to turn so you went. End of. m. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soop Dogg Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 Refer to the other party's misleading indication as a 'contributory factor' in the collision. You can admit your mistake, but by pointing out the mistake of the other party, they may be asked to accept part of the responsibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 if you where already in the way, she shouldnt have entered the yellow box if her exit wasnt cleared? but then i suppose neither should you. I agree with getting her to accept some responsability 50/50 claim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixelfill Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 Did the person at C give a statement? Did you have a filter lane at your side of the junction, if not I would say you had a very strong case, you can't really be expected to know the other side of the junction unless you are there. I would not admit full liability at all, but if you are accepting some responsibility I would at least use her indicating as a contributary factor. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixelfill Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 ... also was there anyone at D when you were waiting? if not, the fact that you had no filter lane, and there was no obvious filter lane coming towards you - how would you know that there was a filter lane at the other side? Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 Don't feel guilty at all about letting the insurance company fight your corner, that's what you pay them for. Given how you've described the other driver's actions it would be unfair for them to get away without at least a portion of the blame - indicators are there for a reason, regardless of what the law says! I've heard of various accidents like this and get split into 60/40% blame. The other driver should have been aware of the potential confusion they would cause by signalling and by being in the wrong filter lane for their signal. I'd say you are not wholly to blame for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kranz Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 Carlos mate. You'll be glad to know that Rule 85 of the highway code says: Signals warn and inform other road users of your intended actions. You should: * give clear signals in plenty of time, having checked it is not misleading to signal at that time (contravention 1 by the other driver) * use them, if necessary, before changing course or direction, stopping or moving off (you believed they were changing direction) * cancel them after use (contravention 2 by the other driver) * make sure your signals will not confuse others.... (contravention 3...) *use an arm signal to emphasise or reinforce your signal if necessary. Remember that signalling does not give you priority. You should also: * watch out for signals given by other road users and proceed only when satisfied that it is safe * be aware that an indicator on another vehicle may not have been cancelled My advice to you is to quote/use as much of this as possible in your statement to the insurance company. A contravention of the highway code is not an offence, but it can affect the outcome of a court case as all drivers are required to know and abide by the highway code, that's why there's an exam on it in the driving test! You did not contravene the highway code (unless you were stationary in the box junction, so don't say you were ). You believed it was safe to manouvre and would have given way if the other driver had not been indicating. If you honestly believed that it was safe to proceed, that the other driver was making a turn, you were indicating and they were slowing to (as you believe) make the turn, the other driver had not recently changed lane so had no reason to be indicating other than to turn (so you believe) etc etc then you're not in the wrong. You did not have priority, but you believed it was safe to manouvre, so say so. As others have said, don't admit any liability, even if you discovered it after the fact. Don't mention that you can only assume the other driver accidently caught their indicator, you didn't know this at the time so it doesn't matter. Its giving them an excuse. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carl0s Posted September 20, 2006 Author Share Posted September 20, 2006 Some interesting thought among that lot guys. I see some of you are still saying I shouldn't have been in the crosshatch/yellow box, but I think you're mistaken since my exit road was clear. I don't think there were cars in the filter lane at the time, but I can't remember. I didn't admit liability, but when I said about her indicating, and a witness said "yes but she'd have been in that lane if she was turning", I said "Oh no, so I suppose that would make it my fault wounldn't it?". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren-K Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 ok mate,looking at the diagram - your screwed. im sorry to tell you that,.you shouldnt of been on the box junction waiting.,no waiting on box junctions. honestly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 ok mate,looking at the diagram - your screwed. im sorry to tell you that,.you shouldnt of been on the box junction waiting.,no waiting on box junctions. honestly. I thought that this morning, then I read the highway code. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 do not admit any liability at all .you assumed she was turning right you entered the box knowing your exit was clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheefa Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 This could go on forever mate. Admit this but don't admit that, tell them this but not that etc etc. I would just say exactly what you've said in your pre-written statement but without the admission of liability by yourself and say that her indication was misleading. You did have a right to sit in that box junction. The insurers will haggle and haggle to get them to accept full/partial blame for this....believe me! After all, it's not just your premium that'll be affected but there P&L sheet too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carl0s Posted September 20, 2006 Author Share Posted September 20, 2006 Did the person at C give a statement? Did you have a filter lane at your side of the junction, if not I would say you had a very strong case, you can't really be expected to know the other side of the junction unless you are there. I would not admit full liability at all, but if you are accepting some responsibility I would at least use her indicating as a contributary factor. Mike Hi Mike. I'm not sure about person C, but there's a possibility that this might be the witness who the police found, the one who pointed the filter lane out to me. There isn't a filter lane on my side.. hmm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan999 Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 Id say they were speeding and that with the distance they were away from the junction you thought you had sufficient time to turn across the junction but defo never admit it was your fault my brothers missus works with this stuff and said most of the time now you get 50/50 blame for nearly all crashes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merckx Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 Looks like you were very unlucky, I'm sure most of us would've done the same thing. The gunmetal car sound nice , lovely colour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carl0s Posted September 20, 2006 Author Share Posted September 20, 2006 Looks like you were very unlucky, I'm sure most of us would've done the same thing. The gunmetal car sound nice , lovely colour. My luck's been good lately. Maybe this was all meant to be.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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