Chris Wilson Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 The piston ring land damage and the stuck rings, and the burnt oil contamination are NOT caused by turbine wheel failure, there's more to that damage than simple turbine wheel break up. Partial seizure, and probably overheating are involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBDevelopments Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Don't want to get into debates but I've done more than enough of these and this is a common result Chris with the mr2/gt4 with the ceramic turbine failure. I've taken the rings out the pistons and there is even small pieces of ceramic stuck on the top faces of the rings which is why they have stuck in. Trust me this is turbine ingestion at High Rpm. the rest of the engine showed no signs of overheating, oil starvation or seizing. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suprash Posted May 19, 2014 Author Share Posted May 19, 2014 So yesterday I rebuilt both turbos, couldnt but help have a little play after with the compressor I have a guy lined up to balance them and then I'll chuck them on and see how they go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supra matt Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 Nice work ask but you do realise doing what you did with the compressor might have just undone all your hard work. As they are like an engine and run on a film of oil to lubricant the bearings so no metal to metal contact? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fizzy T Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 I was thinking this but I was there when he rebuilt it and saw the amount of oil he put on the bearings, I'm sure it won't do much damage for the short time he tested it haha well...hopefully not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 They rely on a pressure feed of oil, they run alarmingly big clearances for such a small shaft OD and bearing ID / OD and the hydrodynamic oil film is very thick compared to say a cranksahft plain bearing film. So windmilling them with a jet from an air line, relying on what oil has not drained out of the cartridge, is probably asking for trouble. But "too late" was the cry I would be curious to know what the out of balance factor is on these, as tested, if the balancer would share the info. Good luck with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suprash Posted May 27, 2014 Author Share Posted May 27, 2014 (edited) Look, Im getting pretty fed up of the only input people wanting to have is to try and either up step you with their so called knowledge or put you down. Chris, Im sorry but go do your own homework, I have recently PM'd you myself asking for a little help and as usual no response back until now you want to have a little dig and know something. I have been working for weeks trying to found out tolerance information etc on these turbos and it took me a lot of speaking to certain people to obtain what I need to know, Supra Matt, I dont really give a fuck what you think, until you have rebuilt a set of turbos, understand the whats involved, come back to me. I have more sets of turbos sat on the bench ready to be stripped with more rebuild kits waiting, in fact, anyone off the forum that whats to know anything that I do, or help etc, then I suggest you either try being my friend or like all the rest of the internet haters, do one ! Mods, please remove this thread completely, I'll work this and obtain what I need to on my own thanks. I was going to start offering this as a service to the forum when I am confident that I can see a reliable mileage out of my own , or at least to a standard that I have myself received from turbo rebuild companies. I have already learnt a couple of small tricks of the trade shall we say from speaking to certain people but I just cant be arsed with all this crap ! Edited May 27, 2014 by Suprash (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 Oh dear..... Duck, something's being thrown from that pram... I like to think I do more than my share of helping people on here, considering it's my day job and really, if I were a hard nosed business man, I would share sod all knowledge. Not sure what I have ignored? If it was a PM my sig' below may explain it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supra matt Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 Hi Ash was not putting you down in the slightest all I was saying was that running them like that is not a great idea. Think what you're doing is great and good luck to you. Sorry I caused you any offence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suprash Posted May 27, 2014 Author Share Posted May 27, 2014 It's not just you two, it's this whole forum to be fair, this used to be a great place with knowledge that was unrivaled anywhere else, what the hell happened in the 4 of so years that I was away, I've come back because I have more time in my hands now after taking a year out from competition, I have only been back a few months and already this place is making me want to leave again, what happened to that community spirit it's sad, really sad, no one seems to know anything around here no more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 I think what you are doing is great and I love all the pioneering kitchen table aspect to what you and some others on here do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suprash Posted May 27, 2014 Author Share Posted May 27, 2014 And yes Chris it was a PM, I wasn't aware you don't read PM's because I don't read everyone's signatures, so I'll apologise but in response to this, I'm fully aware there is no oil running through these turbos, I'm aware there was a fair but of oil sat around the bearings, I'm taking a real life punt that a quick spin of these not generating any heat will be ok, my turbo balancer certainly didn't squabble or stall on this point when I mentioned it to him, as long as it was quick and not continued, it'll be fine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suprash Posted May 27, 2014 Author Share Posted May 27, 2014 And I'll apologies to everyone, maybe Im a bit tired, maybe Im a bit frustrated things arent progressing quickly enough, maybe Im not getting enough McLovin lol, maybe the stars are all aligned wrong, I dunno, but sometimes I just feel a little more encouragement and community spirit is need around here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mk4Gaz Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 I attempted to rebuild an old ct20b for my mr2 turbo once, and couldn't get the damn compressor wheel nut off - probably didn't help that the shaft had snapped, so there was no turbine wheel to clamp on to! I think it's definitely worth having a go, if you're mechanically minded, and I've considered trying it on a pair of stock twins I've got here, as part of my spares! Does the shaft get balanced with the wheels before its fitted to the cartridge, or after? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 Either a lemsip or some tampax and you'll be grand Ash I'm a n/a man, always was and always will be, but I'm fascinated by this thread (and mostly everything in tech). I've no technical knowledge so can't chip in with anything of use but if you're looking some encouragement I'm your man lol I have big respect for you for giving this a go, it's a learning curve and you've got nothing to lose but potentially lots to gain. I hope you get a decent amount of miles out of them when done and your work hasn't been in vain, chin up bud, stick with it (and us!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suprash Posted May 27, 2014 Author Share Posted May 27, 2014 I attempted to rebuild an old ct20b for my mr2 turbo once, and couldn't get the damn compressor wheel nut off - probably didn't help that the shaft had snapped, so there was no turbine wheel to clamp on to! I think it's definitely worth having a go, if you're mechanically minded, and I've considered trying it on a pair of stock twins I've got here, as part of my spares! Does the shaft get balanced with the wheels before its fitted to the cartridge, or after? Now that is a 6 of one, half a dozen of the other tyoe debate mate, some people say the unit should be balanced in the cartridge because thats how it sits on the car, others will say it shouldnt matter because the assembly is never in direct contact with the cartridge because it will be floating on oil, Im balancing mine outside of the cartridge, only because thats how my guy does them. I will though, try different options and see what produces the best mileage but obviously there are so many factors that can play into that equation, I suspect it wont be clear cut. Either a lemsip or some tampax and you'll be grand Ash I'm a n/a man, always was and always will be, but I'm fascinated by this thread (and mostly everything in tech). I've no technical knowledge so can't chip in with anything of use but if you're looking some encouragement I'm your man lol I have big respect for you for giving this a go, it's a learning curve and you've got nothing to lose but potentially lots to gain. I hope you get a decent amount of miles out of them when done and your work hasn't been in vain, chin up bud, stick with it (and us!) I think a tampax for my weeping vagina will be best ! I'll borrow one of your Mums when I see her later hahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 good luck with that, my mum's beard is better than mine... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 (edited) They are balanced as a unit, in the cartridge, using air to spin them. I used to know the guy who developed the balancer used by Turbo Technics, the de facto machine most in the industry use. Geoff Kershaw the original owner of Turbo Technics financed it's development and it's called a VSR. The cartridge is fed clean oil under pressure just as it would be on the engine. The balance factor is optically checked I think, by a paint mark on the wheel. It's a complex (and very expensive) bit of kit. There was info on them somewhere, maybe on Turbo Technics old web site. No offence Mr Ash, I really only have to time to look at PM's on an irregular basis, and I find them harder to collate than e-mails. Once I have the VVti pipework done I'll send a photo. I am pretty pulled out with various things at the minute. EDIT: Here you go: http://www.turbotechnics.com/www/?page_id=12 Edited May 27, 2014 by Chris Wilson (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inazone Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 Chin up mate, I will be giving you a shout when I get round to hybridising an old set of jspec twins. As I know finding the information on the forum and around the net is almost impossible! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suprash Posted May 27, 2014 Author Share Posted May 27, 2014 They are balanced as a unit, in the cartridge, using air to spin them. I used to know the guy who developed the balancer used by Turbo Technics, the de facto machine most in the industry use. Geoff Kershaw the original owner of Turbo Technics financed it's development and it's called a VSR. The cartridge is fed clean oil under pressure just as it would be on the engine. The balance factor is optically checked I think, by a paint mark on the wheel. It's a complex (and very expensive) bit of kit. There was info on them somewhere, maybe on Turbo Technics old web site. No offence Mr Ash, I really only have to time to look at PM's on an irregular basis, and I find them harder to collate than e-mails. Once I have the VVti pipework done I'll send a photo. I am pretty pulled out with various things at the minute. EDIT: Here you go: http://www.turbotechnics.com/www/?page_id=12 Chris, as I said, turbo companies can balance 1 of 2 ways, my balancer did mention that turbo technics balance as a complete unit, but others wont, maybe this is a cost thing, I dont know for sure yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supra matt Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Hi Ash As a matter of cause and as so many rebuilds fail would you be looking into this a bit deeper ie taking the turbos off after 1000 miles and checking there still balanced. Or you just going on the fact a rebuilt turbo has a short lifespan and your your just rebuild as required, . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suprash Posted June 2, 2014 Author Share Posted June 2, 2014 To be honest mate, unless there is any signs of them failing, smoke/oil/lack of boost, I'll doubt I would pull them off to inspect them if they are functioning fine with no problems being displayed, that in itself would say that they are fine and therefor dont warrant investigating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdog1989 Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Ash that vagina weeping again....think we need to sort this between us :-P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clay Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Two for one on tampons at MORISONS. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supra matt Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 To be honest mate, unless there is any signs of them failing, smoke/oil/lack of boost, I'll doubt I would pull them off to inspect them if they are functioning fine with no problems being displayed, that in itself would say that they are fine and therefor dont warrant investigating. Are right what normal fails on the hybrids and what went on your set, is it just infeary parts compared to the stock factory set up. How's your full rebuild coming on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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