UPDATE: Something's Gone Wrong!

[scott87]

Just to throw an idea at you.

 

Mine was making a similar noise, seemed to be coming from the top of the engine, cam area, and turned out to be a duff alternator pulley. Worth checking, just slacken the belt and check all of the other pulleys too.

[Fitz]

Well, finally managed to grab some time today to go through the car. I'd been taking it apart gradually as the weather was shite and also as I never get much time these days with two young kids to look after. Had the ol' man round aswell as he is a dab hand when it comes to cars.

 

I'd gotten up to being able to lift up the Throttle body up and out the way to get access to all the plugs and the covers. So we set about taking everything apart and ensuring all was in order. We set about checking the spark plugs removing them one by one, all fine and secure...however in one Spark Plug well we found this little beauty:

 

 

This was just sitting on top of the spark plug so not actually in contact with anything although obviously shouldn't be in there. As this engine was put in recently and I've never done any work with small screws or any work in the bay for that matter, I'm guessing that was sitting in there from before or sitting on the rail at the top and we've knocked it down there the first time round.

 

So continuing on, all spark plugs removed and covers off we then used a magnetic telescope to feel around on top of the pistons. Low and behold this is what came out:

 

 

These Metal fragments (no idea where they came from or from what) were in with the pistons bouncing around. After going through all the spark plug holes there was nothing else coming out. We checked all the valves to ensure all was in order and everything seemed normal (my dad commented on how small the pistons were in the Supra, he used to own a Dodge Challenger back in the day).

 

Once that was done we put everything back together and connected all the hoses up to see if the problem was rectified. Except for the fact I have a flat battery. So the battery is round the corner at Halfords charging for the night so will go and collect in the morning to fire it up and see if the Supra lives again.

 

Here is a pic of all 3 culprits.

 

[add heywood]

I wouldn't like to think what sort of damage metal fragments will do flying around in your cylinder

[Guest aspire]

hmmm, cant of done it any good at all i would of thought, do you think the debris was in the spark plug channel and you some how knocked it in while changing the plugs?

[Fitz]

I wouldn't like to think what sort of damage metal fragments will do flying around in your cylinder

 

Likewise, the fragments look as if they've taken a battering. I'll be trying to fire her up tomorrow to see what happens and check for any irregularities and strange noises

 

hmmm, cant of done it any good at all i would of thought, do you think the debris was in the spark plug channel and you some how knocked it in while changing the plugs?

 

That is the only assumption I can come to if I'm honest. I can't see any other conceivable option of how it happened.

[listy]

Looks like the larger flat piece may have once upon a time been a bolt also? Looks like the remains of thread on the edge.

 

Hope all is ok mate

[Kaan W]

my dad commented on how small the pistons were in the Supra, he used to own a Dodge Challenger back in the day).

 

Sorry to drift from the subject but what year was his challenger? My dad had a 1970 model years ago. Rare as hell now tho.

 

Good luck with tomorrow bud hope all is well.

[Fitz]

Sorry to drift from the subject but what year was his challenger? My dad had a 1970 model years ago. Rare as hell now tho.

 

Good luck with tomorrow bud hope all is well.

 

Not too sure, ill find out. Apparently it would be worth a fair bit now though due to the model he had. But he binned it YEARS ago.

 

Well guys, the results are in. I got the battery back from Halfords this morning and put it in the car....turned the key and......

 

Still rattling... no idea what the hell it could be. I could also smell fuel before I shut it off. I have all the luck so that's 2 buggered NA engines in 12 months.

 

I was hoping I would be able to go on a nice long blast and regain the love I lost for this car, sadly I have no love left.

[Fitz]

Just had a call from the ol' man after giving him the news and he reckons the timing may be out.

[Josh42]

Quite possibly mate, If you've disturbed the rotor arm at all?

[Dnk]

Rotor arms only fit in one place and i doubt very much its that, if its still making

the same noise then maybe there's something else in a cylinder, i don't think the timing

being out would create such a noise

[Kaan W]

Not too sure, ill find out. Apparently it would be worth a fair bit now though due to the model he had. But he binned it YEARS ago.

 

Well guys, the results are in. I got the battery back from Halfords this morning and put it in the car....turned the key and......

 

Still rattling... no idea what the hell it could be. I could also smell fuel before I shut it off. I have all the luck so that's 2 buggered NA engines in 12 months.

 

I was hoping I would be able to go on a nice long blast and regain the love I lost for this car, sadly I have no love left.

 

Chin up bud it could be something simple like as you said the timing may be out. I wouldnt throw in the towel just yet, try and eliminate all the little possibilities first one at a time and go from there.

[Fitz]

Thing is, with this don't get me wrong I love the Supra its an amazing car and was years ahead of its time but to go through all this hassle on an NA engine just seems pointless. If it was a GTE then its reason to add various newer parts for increased performance/reliability but with the NA engine its just not feasbale.

 

What do you guys recommend? Mobile Mechanic to run a diagnosis?

[Kaan W]

Thing is, with this don't get me wrong I love the Supra its an amazing car and was years ahead of its time but to go through all this hassle on an NA engine just seems pointless. If it was a GTE then its reason to add varios newer parts for increased performance.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Thing is, with this don't get me wrong I love the Supra its an amazing car and was years ahead of its time but to go through all this hassle on an NA engine just seems pointless. If it was a GTE then its reason to add varios newer parts for increased performance.

 

Maybe its a sign for a GTE transplant

[Dnk]

Checking the timing is simple so do that first if you really think its that.

 

Personally i think you need the inlet manifold off, all the plugs out and

look inside the cylinders through the plug holes with a boroscope

Edited December 29, 2012 by Dnk (see edit history)

[Fitz]

Maybe its a sign for a GTE transplant

 

I would get a TT transplant done tomorrow if one was available, sadly being an Auto there is a long waiting list to get it done. Best option would be to just sell this car and buy a TT Auto.

 

Checking the timing is simple so do that first if you really think its that.

 

Personally i think you need the inlet manifold off, all the plugs out and

look inside the cylinders through the plug holes with a boroscope

 

I think you're right Dunk, although at present I just want to turn it into Coke Cans.

[Dnk]

 

 

I think you're right Dunk, although at present I just want to turn it into Coke Cans.

 

Well its what i'd do before crushing it

[Rob]

Are those foreign bodies in fact the bolts that hold on the IAC and TPS? I wonder if someone was working on those, lost the bolts and thought no more about them other than fitting replacements. I'd recheck the cylinders again just to be sure, and inside the whole intake plenum.

[David P]

It sounds to me like 'something' has managed to get into the engine, but if so it's amazing it runs so well.

 

You've killed it.

 

Take it on the chin and move on.

 

It's cheaper to buy another used engine than a new head gasket, and for less than the price of paying someone to tell you the same you could fix it.

 

£100 - £150 and a days tinkering and you'll be back where you were yet wiser.

Edited December 29, 2012 by David P (see edit history)

[listy]

You've killed it.

 

Take it on the chin and move on.

 

It's cheaper to buy another used engine than a new head gasket, and for less than the price of paying someone to tell you the same you could fix it.

 

£100 - £150 and a days tinkering and you'll be back where you were yet wiser.

 

This.

I would just get a new GE engine as they go so cheap. Would save you sooooo much hassle and money to me it would be the only option.

 

Then turn the old block into a coffee table and the pistons into lamps

[Dnk]

You've killed it.

 

Take it on the chin and move on.

 

It's cheaper to buy another used engine than a new head gasket, and for less than the price of paying someone to tell you the same you could fix it.

 

£100 - £150 and a days tinkering and you'll be back where you were yet wiser.

 

What about if he has to pay someone to do the engine change ? it'll be a tad more than £150

by the time its in and running

[Fitz]

This was a 2nd hand NA engine I had fitted by Keron earlier this year after blowing a HG on the old engine.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

What about if he has to pay someone to do the engine change ? it'll be a tad more than £150

by the time its in and running

 

Cost me £600 supplied and fitted last time, sadly I'm slightly incompetent when it comes to engine replacement.

[Dnk]

Can you post another video of it running, i had a foreign body in 2 cylinders in an

engine a while ago and once removed the engine ran and is still running fine

40,000 miles after the drama sounded just like yours if not worse.

 

If you can get hold of a boroscope its worth whipping the manifold off and plugs out

to have a look, that parts hardly difficult to do yourself or your dad perhaps.

Edited December 29, 2012 by Dnk (see edit history)

[Fitz]

Can you post another video of it running, i had a foreign body in 2 cylinders in an

engine a while ago and once removed the engine ran and is still running fine

40,000 miles after the drama sounded just like yours if not worse.

 

If you can get hold of a boroscope its worth whipping the manifold off and plugs out

to have a look, that parts hardly difficult to do yourself or your dad perhaps.

 

I'll get another video of it running later today, if it stops raining and post it up. Then we can have a comparison to see if it sounds different.

 

Boroscope would seem a logical step, but like I said, right now I just cant be fooked with it all

[Fitz]

Apologies for the ignorance here but speaking with Keron last night and he mentioned something to me.

 

As previously I changed plugs 1,2,5 and 6 - then ran the car fine would that mean that the rattling noise would only be coming from 3/4? As the problem only arose after changing plugs 3 & 4 and the rotor arm, dizzy cap and HT Leads. The metal fragments were found in #4 so initially I'm assuming that something is still in either 3/4? However, not knowing a great deal about engines etc - woul it still be contained in the chamber or is it possible to jump around down channels 1-6?

Edited December 30, 2012 by Fitz (see edit history)