scoooby slayer Posted September 16, 2011 Author Share Posted September 16, 2011 mark, you also need your clutch pedal adjuster fully released so you get full travel to push the slave out to full reach, the pedal will sit abit high but its no biggy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark newman Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 Thats sounds like a plan, could you send me a pic of what you done, when we refit it again , I will do that mod as well, thanks for that. that is why I think that the spacer should be fitted ,to give it more throw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoooby slayer Posted September 16, 2011 Author Share Posted September 16, 2011 Thats sounds like a plan, could you send me a pic of what you done, when we refit it again , I will do that mod as well, thanks for that. that is why I think that the spacer should be fitted ,to give it more throw. no problem mate il take a pic tmrw, all i have to do now is slacken the bolts off and slide my slave forward or back till i get it where i want it, my clutch at the moment is so high its only an inch or 2 down from the top to biting point ! il take a pic of inside the box aswell to show the release bearing and sleeve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark newman Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 What about the free play ,has it got any by doing this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoooby slayer Posted September 16, 2011 Author Share Posted September 16, 2011 What about the free play ,has it got any by doing this. yes ive just gone to far now since it jammed up, i forgot to mention i also had to grind abit of my gearbox away as the clutch release arm was hitting up against the gearbox bellhousing, il take pics tmrw for you, it doesnt need to go far ive just overdone mine due to the sticking issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DARETT Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 I spoke with carbonetics Europe in detail on this before I changed away from mine. I was in two minds as I knew there was a few 1000+hp cars using them without issue, however they were using a heavier pressure plate that carbonetics sell for drag racing. Here's what they had to say on the matter: Our clutches are able to handle up 1500BHP at the crank/fly using our 1350KG cover plate. We have two “standard” options when it comes to pressure plates, the 1100KG or 1350KG. But we actually offer heavier pressure plates for extreme use, which are 1700KG and 2000KG which are more than enough to hold extreme power. We have several vehicles running well over 1000WHP, there are a couple of European AMS Evo’s using a Carbonetic Triple plate clutch with a 1350KG pressure plate, these cars all run very low 9s on the strip. Our distributor in Denmark their Evo is having a rebuild and that’s going to running over 1400BHP at the Crank, this one uses a heavier pressure plate. Before it was just over 1000BHP at the crank and it was used for drag race only, which you can imagine that is a lot of abuse on the clutch, even more so with 4WD vehicles. Another vehicle that has over 1000WHP is a 911 Turbo, this is used for top speed challenges, that used an 1100KG cover and was holding well but they upped the power so again they now use a heavier pressure plate. Our clutches kits come with everything you need to bolt it straight onto your vehicle, including the push/pull conversion, lightened flywheel, all fitting bolts, release bearing, sleeve as well as original OEM parts for the conversion. Using the clutch is very easy, its one of the most “street-able” clutches on the market which is why they prove to be popular, they are not grabby or snappy like metal sintered clutches, also the Carbonetic clutch works out to be extremely good value for money considering it’s a true carbon/carbon clutch, they are also fully rebuild-able. Regarding Tilton clutches they are extremely good and I personally cannot fault them and they are one of the best on the market, but as you know they come at a price they are not the cheapest clutch out there. The only downside of our clutch is the break-in period; it does take up to 800 miles for it to break in before you can use it to its full potential. During the break-in period the carbon plates secrete a resin onto the metal parts of the clutch, this forms a coating on the surface this protects the metal parts against extreme heat and stops them warping. During this break-in time the clutch can be fairly grabby but once bedded-in the clutch is very easy to modulate. The other downsides are the clutch is noisy when in neutral due to the floating plates rattling against each other, but this is common on many multi-plate clutches also the Carbonetic Supra clutch is a little heavier on the foot than all our other clutches, but its only marginal and feels a tad heavier than stock. I feel it’s important to be honest about our clutches, as you are investing into a key part that has to work and of course you do not want any nasty surprises. For drag use, I think the problem is down many users do not properly bed-in the clutch before use and they slip the clutch for too long, this causes a large amount of heat to be generated and it warps the metal plates, this is the only reason for failure on our clutches. Saying that we never really had problems in Europe with the drag cars using our clutch all of the drag cars are 4WD monsters which put more stress on the drive train. There is one company called century motorsport, they have a 900+ BHP MR2 Turbo this has a twin plate and the owner uses it for drag only, he said he hasn’t had any problems with the clutch at all. I have to agree RPS and Tilton are much more popular in the USA compared to us, they are also a lot larger than us we are fairly small in comparison which is probably why these clutches are utilised more. The 1000WHP 911 now uses an 1800KG cover the driver said the increased pressure plate doesn’t affect the pedal feel. If the car is running 1300WHP power the 1350KG cover would most likely cause the clutch to slip we do a 2300KG cover this would hold the power, but it does have a 30% + over stock pedal effort. You can change to this pressure plate for the event and then swap it back to a lighter cover plate to hold 1200WHP which is a 1900KG cover and this has up to 20% + pedal effort depending on the vehicle, some vehicles you do not feel any increased pedal effort. That’s the good thing about the clutches they are easy to swap around and change the parts without changing the complete unit and even for an up rated pressure plate it would cost around £200. Hopefully I have helped with your questions, if there is anything else please ask away. Hi Amir, I have spoken to my colleagues in Japan regarding the up rated pressure plate. They have said to me the 2300KG pressure plate hasn’t been fully tested and they are worried that the increased pressure will damage parts of the clutch system not only that the increased pressure plate could make it very difficult to disengage the clutch. I am sorry I was led to believe by our partners ATS it had been tested! So that leaves us with the 1800KG pressure plate which has been used as you know and it should be able to hold the power you are putting down. If you just change the pressure plate it will increase it by 25% pedal effort which takes it 1680KG If you change the pressure plate and the floating plates (metal plates) it will it will take it to 1800KG, reason being the fulcrum point changes with the new pressure plate, you need to run new (slightly) thicker floating plates in order to achieve the full 1800KG pressure plate. Each piece is 15,000 Yen or £110. And you will need a total of 3 pieces in order to achieve the 1800KG pressure. My colleagues seem confident that it will hold the power you are putting down. Kind regards Gavin Hope this helps making your minds up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 mine was doing exactly the same bud, the slave doesnt really have enough throw on it imo, slot the holes on the slave mount bracket and slide it closer towards the engine just by a few mm will make all the differance, ive slotted mine out so much now i went through the back of the bracket ! lol i wanted maximum force on the clutch plates to get it released and it worked. im a mechanic by trade on civil engineering and agricultural equipment and have lots of experiience with repairing machinery and the clutch kit isnt made properly well the slave mounting bracket anyways, its not good enough tbh. Thats sounds like a plan, could you send me a pic of what you done, when we refit it again , I will do that mod as well, thanks for that. that is why I think that the spacer should be fitted ,to give it more throw. Marks clutch was tried with every adjustment we could think of, the hydraulic system pushed the fork arm so far it had no movement left, there was no adjustment left, the metal plates are warped and it looks like the case hardening has started coming off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DARETT Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 Most the yank drag supras use RPS or Tilton, i considered the tilton but it seems they dont like being slipped, they last for years on drag cars but only seem to last a short while on the street, RPS has always been good to me so staying with them myself. Tilton's are the best for slipping on the strip though dude, you can slip them right out of the 60ft to get the best traction. They come with a full rebuild kit and shims etc, but it's best if you re-shim it every 1000 miles or to keep it in pristine condition. RPS does last longer on the street though I'm not sure on rebuild costs. Tilton rebuild costs are around $4-500 last time I checked. The RPS triple is a great clutch, although not many big power guys have abused it on the strip yet. You've got some amazing results from your twin though so it may be worth a chance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoooby slayer Posted September 16, 2011 Author Share Posted September 16, 2011 Marks clutch was tried with every adjustment we could think of, the hydraulic system pushed the fork arm so far it had no movement left, there was no adjustment left, the metal plates are warped and it looks like the case hardening has started coming off. i had to make more adjustment by physicaly moving the slave cylinder, it pushed so far i had to grind some of the gearbox away to make room for the arm to move as it was backing up against the gearbox ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 (edited) Tilton's are the best for slipping on the strip though dude, you can slip them right out of the 60ft to get the best traction. They come with a full rebuild kit and shims etc, but it's best if you re-shim it every 1000 miles or to keep it in pristine condition. RPS does last longer on the street though I'm not sure on rebuild costs. Tilton rebuild costs are around $4-500 last time I checked. The RPS triple is a great clutch, although not many big power guys have abused it on the strip yet. You've got some amazing results from your twin though so it may be worth a chance Re shim every 1000miles means i would be taking the gearbox out every few weeks, Tilton is no good for me, RPS last forever, i read loads of threads on SF before buying mine, some have reported to have done over 50,000 miles and 100's of drag passes without a rebuild. RPS are also said to have great after sales service, ive read tilton are out of rebuild kits for months to come yet. I spoke w/ Tilton repairs again yday and they told me they are still 2-3 months out on new carbon plates. They also mentioned these plates are reserved for the new clutches and that I probably wouldn't be able to get any of them to rebuild mine and would have to wait on the 2nd batch?? On top of that they said the new carbon plates won't last near as long as the old ones. Curious to know if anyone else has recently sent their clutch out to tilton for a rebuild? I sent mine a few weeks ago and just heard back that it's going to be at least 3 months possibly longer due to carbon shortage. Apparently, the supply company closed down and they are having trouble finding someone else. Edited September 16, 2011 by JamieP (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoooby slayer Posted September 16, 2011 Author Share Posted September 16, 2011 I spoke with carbonetics Europe in detail on this before I changed away from mine. I was in two minds as I knew there was a few 1000+hp cars using them without issue, however they were using a heavier pressure plate that carbonetics sell for drag racing. Here's what they had to say on the matter: Hope this helps making your minds up cheers for that fella, im done with them im gonna run mine til it throws a wobler again than change it for possibly a rps triple carbon/carbon, i need a clutch i can slip without it welding itself to the flywheel ! lol even my mere 760 rwhp is proving somewhat difficult to get the power down on drs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark newman Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 That all sounds great . so why Im I having all these problems with only 720 bhp . Amir would you have a contact for this man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoooby slayer Posted September 16, 2011 Author Share Posted September 16, 2011 if i had paid £2500 for this clutch id be at the door of the retailer now going absolutely barmey tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark newman Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 that would be Paul then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark newman Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 Hi Dude you got there then , I will be seeing you in the morning try and get a 10 before I get there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 I would have thought you fellas would / should be using something more akin to these things: http://molinariracingproducts.com/ http://www.ramclutches.com/products/billet%20new909.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 i had to make more adjustment by physicaly moving the slave cylinder, it pushed so far i had to grind some of the gearbox away to make room for the arm to move as it was backing up against the gearbox ! Yup, did that too, the release bearing cannot physically go any further forward !!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 I'd also expect any clutch used for drag racing behind a near 1000 HP engine in a heavy car would be a consumable and need removing checking every meeting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoooby slayer Posted September 16, 2011 Author Share Posted September 16, 2011 Yup, did that too, the release bearing cannot physically go any further forward !!!! very strange then mate, il add pics tmrw of what mine looks like inside and out. the clutch does feel very good was launching like a mofo smoking the drag radials up my tarmac road with very good clutch feel just didnt like the heat and welded up on me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoooby slayer Posted September 16, 2011 Author Share Posted September 16, 2011 I'd also expect any clutch used for drag racing behind a near 1000 HP engine in a heavy car would be a consumable and need removing checking every meeting. id agree but when jamie does run after run plus road/track on his rps all these other clutches should be the same, actually better as there even dearer ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DARETT Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 Re shim every 1000miles means i would be taking the gearbox out every few weeks, Tilton is no good for me, RPS last forever, i read loads of threads on SF before buying mine, some have reported to have done over 50,000 miles and 100's of drag passes without a rebuild. RPS are also said to have great after sales service, ive read tilton are out of rebuild kits for months to come yet. Yup you do alot of miles in a month so RPS may be the way to go. It does seem a no-brainer to opt for the RPS considering the price of the Tilton as well. I was 95% close to buying one from Dusty as well until I got talked out of it. Your twin has certainly lasted very well on the street/strip, so it should be a walk in the park for the triple! I can only say what I have discussed with others. Stefan, Jamie Carter, Cody, Ryan Woon and every other old school racer I spoke to seemed to have no confidence in them lasting for big power cars on the strip for too long. Although I did discuss with another racer SF username JamesN180 and he was extremely positive about it. so far the rps3c has taken everything I've thrown at it without issue. It's held many 140+ mph drag passes, road race days, and street miles. Very happy with the clutch. Feel soft-ish pedal. Shorter throw then a RPC double carbon. Not a on off switch. Can slip no issues. Daily drive type situations are not a issue. Noise It rattles a good bit while engaged (clutch pedal down). No loud rattle can noises other wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DARETT Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 That all sounds great . so why Im I having all these problems with only 720 bhp . Amir would you have a contact for this man. Yup definitely worth taking up with them, It was [email protected] T: 01442879575 M: 07806206504 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark newman Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 Thanks Amir for that . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 A proper carbon / carbon clutch doesn't have any steel floater plates and comes pre bedded and ready for immediate action. They are also rebuildable. Here's AP.s notes on the F3 clutches I get to play with, admittedly this isn't drag racing, but they are bullet proof and totally reliable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DARETT Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 A proper carbon / carbon clutch doesn't have any steel floater plates and comes pre bedded and ready for immediate action. They are also rebuildable. Here's AP.s notes on the F3 clutches I get to play with, admittedly this isn't drag racing, but they are bullet proof and totally reliable. It's true, They shouldn't advertise it as a true full carbon clutch when it isn't. I believe the new RPS triple is a true full carbon clutch though, with patented carbon floater plates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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