Supra 97 - 01 Twin Turbo: Coming to UK!

[DShox]

Cats are of course essential to the process but initial test data shows that the NA Supra just about makes it through and the turbo version failed by a monsterous margin on emissions on the old Euro 2 standards, so you would be asking an awful lot of the cat. Euro 3 applied from 2001 and are about 30% tougher than Euro 2, and even if you made an exhaust out of catalyst, as sampling on Euro 3 commences at engine start (i.e. no time to heat the cat), it would make little difference.

 

Emissions were one of the reasons the Supra was discontinued and was certainly the reason there are no 1996 manual 6 speeds out there (or at least I believe the latter point to be true).

 

ok the DVLA might not have a clue but it is the VOSA examiners at SVA companies that do the inspections, and sometimes they are quite intrusive when inspecting the car...so even if you did falsify the age, you may find your vehicle grounded permanently because it was pulled apart at random.

 

The fact is, even Ecotech could not develop an ECU to get the Evo 8 through (and they had 3 shots!)...they had to send an expert who had physically needed to be present at the lab tweaking the engine and ECU to succeed. Question is, how much are you prepared to spend modifying the Supra in advance before attempting a pricey model report?

[Japanfanatic]

Hey!

Sorry to hijack that thread (what's the progress on doing the model report anyway?).

I was wondering about whether all VVt-i Twin Turbos do have the same catalytics. From what I know, the Japanese government passed a newer emission regulation, that took effect in 2000. So did any changes happen to the post-2000 Supras (the Supra was produced until June 2002) regarding emissions and detoxifiying exhaust gases?

Could anyone with access to the Toyota EPC check whether there are more catalytics with different part numbers? (I know, decatting is usually the way to go, but anyway;))

Thanks so far, guys and gals:)

[DShox]

I was not personally aware of the newer emissions regs in Japan but they wouldn't be as tight as European standards at a guess - just look at the spec of fuel the Japs use (even Shell Optimax doesnt make it with its RON 95 rating). I think the Supra's ECU is setup for RON 100 so fuel from UK pumps needs enriching...maybe someone has an alternative view on this? Anyway, I don't think there were many changes to the Supra to account for the new Jap regs as the power output is the same.

 

As for progress, to be honest I've had trouble gaining support of key stakeholders - I would persist but I have a sneaking suspicion that someone is already working on a report...but if that fails I'll resume my efforts! My focus has been on prepping my 'loopholed' 1998 Supra Twin Turbo that I bought is September and waited 8 months b4 a loophole was found - which promptly closed! It will appear on Autotrader shortly...

 

Take it easy...

[imi]

My focus has been on prepping my 'loopholed' 1998 Supra Twin Turbo that I bought is September and waited 8 months b4 a loophole was found - which promptly closed! It will appear on Autotrader shortly...

 

Take it easy...

 

Whats the story here....you bought a 1998 supra that you cant register / tax cause it wont pass the MoT?

[DShox]

it cant pass first base, which is the SVA test...only when the certificate is issued will the DVLA allow it to be registered. MoT can happen as soon as SVA test is ok.

 

For basic rules, refer to my first post on this thread. Basically there is no Model Report done for the Supra Twin Turbo. EU regulations need all vehicles coming from outside of the EU, with the age of 1997 onwards, to be tested against the Model Report.

 

A Model Report is a piece of intellectual property that someone owns, which results from a series of lab tests upon a sample Supra Twin Turbo...these cover noise, safety etc and emissions - it's the emissions that ruin the Supra. If someone did successfully develop a report for the Supra, when someone imports the same type of Supra, they call the guy who owns the Report, who allows the importer to use it for a fee...

 

ok?

[carl0s]

yeah but what's the loophole you found?

[imi]

Whats the story here....you bought a 1998 supra that you cant register / tax cause it wont pass the MoT?

 

not sure how that answered my question, unless there was no intention to

[ivan]

Shyte.

I'm saving up and wanted to find a 2002 car.

They're on Autotrader.co.uk every now and then (there's one on there now).

I didn't realise they were so rare.

I think if you double-check the ad it's actually an earlier car - probably imported in 2002. "2002 TOYOTA SUPRA TWIN TURBO 96"

 

Ken

[DShox]

imi yeah just realised i completely yabbered on about sommit else

 

I couldn't SVA my 98, therefore I couldn't do anything like MoT...until I stumbled across a helper - not sure what the motivation was (pity I reckon!). I didn't appreciate the need for a Model Report until I'd already imported!

 

the deal I had with the lady at port was that she would sort it for me as long as I didn't keep asking her to do it...after realising that I had a lump of metal sitting there I followed her instructions and she did the SVA on it somehow - that allowed me to legally plate the car so I owe her big time...she don't work there anymore cos she moved job and so the timing was just jammy...

[Guest chiefvinso]

This has me worried now as I have purchased from a dealer in Kent a 96 facelift TT6, I'm going to be ok arent I???

[Nic]

This has me worried now as I have purchased from a dealer in Kent a 96 facelift TT6, I'm going to be ok arent I???

 

Is it a VVTi TT, as the early face lifts were pre-VVTi. The new import rules only came in a couple of years ago so provided you are buying a car that is already registered here then you will be fine.

[Guest chiefvinso]

No its not a VVTi, just been checking and they say that all their cars are sva tested and mot'd. It wont be registered here as its still in transit, but a dealer wouldnt sell a car if I couldnt use it would they??

[Nic]

No its not a VVTi, just been checking and they say that all their cars are sva tested and mot'd. It wont be registered here as its still in transit, but a dealer wouldnt sell a car if I couldnt use it would they??

 

If it s not a VVTi then you should have no problems, it is only the VVTi models that can not be registered at the moment.

[Japanfanatic]

I was not personally aware of the newer emissions regs in Japan but they wouldn't be as tight as European standards at a guess - just look at the spec of fuel the Japs use (even Shell Optimax doesnt make it with its RON 95 rating). I think the Supra's ECU is setup for RON 100 so fuel from UK pumps needs enriching...maybe someone has an alternative view on this? Anyway, I don't think there were many changes to the Supra to account for the new Jap regs as the power output is the same.

 

Well yeah, I'am aware of the fact the Japs still don't have strict emission regulations, but an OEM factory-fitted cat would be a better base for modifiying the whole car to pass Euro 2 and maybe even Euro 3 then the old one. I could even think with just better cats it could pass Euro 2 without further problems, what would make importing Supras >2000 possible.

Euro 3 is really hard to pass anyway:(

 

In Germany the road tax you have to pay is calculated by the displacement and the emissions (worse emissions=you have to pay more tax), and therefore many car owners are interested in retrofit catalytics, that allow the car to pass with better emission values.

So did the MKIII-Owners in Germany, as the stock-MKIII does only pass Euro 1. They asked the cat-producer http://www.gat-kat.de/ to develop a cat for the MKIII to pass Euro 2, but they needed 30 confirmed owners, that would buy the retrofit kit.

Maybe you could try to contact a British cat-developer (unfortunately I don't know of any:() or one from the European mainland to develop cats for the VVt-i Supra. But you will still need to find an amount of definite buyers, that will buy the kit (maybe together with the full model report).

 

So long

[DShox]

you are fine - the issue is limited to whether you import a 1997 or newer model twin turbo. there are 1997s (and newer) in the UK for sale because they could have been imported before April 04 when the rules changed. however quite a few people and agents got caught out and continued importing without realising a Model Report was needed. if you look on car ads - its pretty obvious that someone is desperate to get rid of their twin turbo because:

 

a) its priced so low it probably cost them more to import it so they would make a loss

b) the number plate is hidden either by using paintshop software to modify the image, there is no plate attached (i.e. couldn't get EU approval by being tested against a non-existent Model Report and therefore couldn't get a registration number from DVLA) or the car is positioned so you can't see the plates

 

Make sure you can verify the date the car was imported if it is 97 or newer - if it was post April-04, unless it is one of the lucky few to exploit loopholes (which were promptly closed on discovery) to get a legal registration, dont touch em with barge poles...Supras attract police attention and they will be very interested in checking your plates (as I discovered when one tailgated me for about 5 miles on the M6!).

[DShox]

yup cats are definitely important but the Euro 3 starts monitoring the moment the engine starts as opposed to the 40 sec delay on Euro 2...this is important because the cat does not have time to heat up and work to full potential in the former case. if you lifted the Jap-spec Supra and looked at its underbody, the first bulge near the engine is the cat, the second bulge near the tip is the silencer. the UK Supra is different in that both bulges are cats. I know of one guy who recently put 2 UK cats into the Jap Supra and it failed by such a wide margin the project was abandoned...I don't know how feasible it is with just cat technology, but rather suspect many mods and a great deal of technical know-how is needed for this.

[imi]

but a dealer wouldnt sell a car if I couldnt use it would they??

 

 

didnt stop Bonzai trying to sell a 2002 Supra TT for 20K.

 

wonder why it was for sale for 8 months...probably still is....

[DShox]

yup there was a belief that the rolling 10 year rule would still apply - just for the uninitiated, if your Supra is 10 yrs old or more, it doesn't need an SVA e.g. so as it's 2005 now, then 1995s and older models don't go through SVA. However that doesn't mean when its 2012 then the 2002 model referred to in the above post can be sold. the rules in April 04 meant that 1997 will be the firm date forever.

 

I'm afraid the Bonsai Supra is stuck unless someone develops a Report...or it could just be used for a demo car...they have a Skyline and Viper on autotrader too that is demo only too.

 

dont fret yall. I understand that the EU (or UK) is talking with Japanese manufacturers to make 'world cars'. It is recognised that Japanese cars match or sometimes exceed safety and performance standards in the UK, so as long as the Japs can agree to a few modifications, then they should be allowed to enter the EU with minimal fuss in the future.

[Jurgen-Jm-Imports]

if i buy in 2012 am sure i was told i can import 2002 supra and all u need is mot best check it out.

[Vanessa]

if i buy in 2012 am sure i was told i can import 2002 supra and all u need is mot best check it out.

 

Thats right, unless the regulations change it will be over 10 yrs old and only require an MOT

 

V

[RedM]

Out of interest wouldn't it be cost effective to get this sorted properly so that traders can sell late model cars now? Surely the short term costs would be far less than the money to be made long term.

[Guest chiefvinso]

Dshox, I dont know the process cars have to go through so I'm just going to have a stab - would the car pass if the cats were warm? If so, what about preheating? I know it sounds silly but I just wanted to try and help.

[DShox]

preheated cats would certainly have a better chance - but remember you need to send your sample Supra 97 (or newer) twin turbo to an authorised test lab who will then assess emissions, noise, safety (i.e. additional gauges may protrude and possibly cause injury)...if it passes a Model Report 1st draft goes to VOSA for comment...they then ask the test lab to amend or re-test certain elements before a final Model Report can be issued. That Model Report applies to YOUR Supra and everyone else that wants to import must have a Supra exactly like your one for it to pass (so if you have Recaro seats in yours when it passes, then so must people who import in the future)...

 

It will take much more than just cats to pass - Euro 2 allows sometime for the cats to heat up (40 secs). You will not be allowed to take you Supra to a Lab and ask them to start monitoring after say 3 minutes. There are ways to clean up emissions other than tailpipe cats, like placing a sort of pre-cat between the throttle body and engine so that the fuel breaks down even b4 it gets burned...this apparently increases fuel efficiency, bhp, torque, emissions - costs about GBP80 and is a simple mod to make. Possibly also remap an ECU to downgrade output...but that cools the engine increasing output of other noxious gases..its difficult...and it'll set you back over GBP3500 with no guarantee of success.

 

Vanessa - I thought I read that 1997 is a fixed date? ok I'm prolly confused.

[Angarak]

Sorry to bump this thread back up so long after its last post, but I was wondering if there is any confirmation on the 1997 date being fixed?

 

Im curious to know as Im currently a supra-virgin and was hoping to import a jap vvti. But if its a fixed date I guess I'll have to look at a 95 RZ TT instead.

 

Cheerio

Angarak

[DShox]

surprised to see this one back up

 

i'm certain it's fixed cos i poured over the docs - but lemme check, my file is back in Birmingham (I'm in London at the mo) but I can confirm on the w/e.

 

VVti is 98 onwards (although think some came in very late 97).