dude Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 Dudes Opinions please , auto car but running a mild converter what is the best 'bang per buck' 1) stage 3 hybrids 2) Pair of Big Twins 3) Big single I like the idea of the hybrids but power will allways be limited by the crap manifold , so how much 'laggier' will a pair of big twins be especially with a higher stall converter ??? John:flame Dev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam W Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 Big twins are pretty large, good bhp possibilities but pretty laggy. If you go for a single you have a much wider range of options from 450bhp@3500rpm to 800bhp@5500rpm and everything in between. Plus, once you've got the manifold in place you can chop and change between large or small turbos, diferent a/r ratios etc. With hybrids you'll be waiting for #2 to come online before you make decent power anyway, you get a much nicer power curve with a single IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude Posted April 20, 2003 Author Share Posted April 20, 2003 How well would a big single work with the auto box is it mega laggy????? John:flame Dev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zac grant Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 I think I'm going to go for a single turbo setup next month. I'm looking at the new sp61 full turbo kit. It will make about 550 to 600 bhp and deliver full boost by around 3800 revs! check this link out http://www.sound-performance.com They also do a budget kit for just over £1500 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GavinL Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 I assume this is a money no object question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Usmann A Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 I was advised that the TO4R is a good setup, not that laggy for a good 600hp power range. I think its 5'gs for the full kit,(manifold,wastegate...etc), as Option quoted me, I dont think its really considered as a big single, but a good mid size turbo..although the A/R ratio is .96 which I was adviised is good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 Originally posted by dudersvr How well would a big single work with the auto box is it mega laggy????? John:flame Dev It will be dreadful. The auto box is programmed and ratioed to match the characteristics of the stock engine, you open yet another can of worms altering the power and torque delivery of any engine in an automatic gearbox car, especially one with sophisticated ecu control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam W Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 The T04R is a bit of a monster, about a .96 a/r ratio which means loads of lag. It's pretty old technology as well now, compared to the new wheels which are around. The term "big single" is a bit misleading, there are plenty out there which will reach full boost well before the #2 turbo comes online in the stock setup. SP57 or T61 for example. Speak to Lar at Sound Performamce, he sells 300 turbos a year and has an excellent reputation for knowledgability and customer service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 Nothing to add of any use, just want to subscribe to this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qaisar Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 Originally posted by Chris Wilson It will be dreadful. The auto box is programmed and ratioed to match the characteristics of the stock engine, you open yet another can of worms altering the power and torque delivery of any engine in an automatic gearbox car, especially one with sophisticated ecu control. what about if you get a replacement ecu like the AEM or Motec, would that help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GavinL Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 Originally posted by qaisar what about if you get a replacement ecu like the AEM or Motec, would that help? I beleive that I am correct in saying that both those unit retain the stock auto ecu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 No the AEM controls the Autobox & lets you change shift points etc. Having driven all the combo's you mention I would go for the stage 3's for road use as the others are to laggy. The Twins would be the last option. They are awful without a lot of timing & box mods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 As I understand it there are 4 'stages' of hybrids (1 to 4). Are they just progressively more power? Anyone know how much laggier the stage 4 is than stock turbo's, what revs does the second turbo come online? I am considering hybrids but not really sure what 'stage' to get. I know that the amount of boost you can run is limited by the manifold so if all the stage 4 allows you to do is run more boost am I best off with the slightly less laggier stage 3? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Usmann A Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 I dont know that much on turbos, but it seems like the GTRs have greater models available, ie 2530s, 2540s, and yet havent heard of these tubbies on supras? Do HKS make these for the 2JZ?, if not, wouldnt the 2530s be a good option as they are not really considered as big twins(I think these are the smallest of HKS twin setup on the GTR not 100% on this), such as 2835's, meaning useable power, which is most of us want. Even if they weren't made for the 2JZ could it be possible to bang them on a custom manifold and give it a go?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Martin F Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 HKS have just recently released a TO4Z which sounds like and updated TO4R, as Adam stated the R is getting on a bit. IMO HKS turbo kits, although very nice, are overpriced now that there is so much competition from reputable supliers. John you need to give us an idea of what you want out of your car really, as big twins are fine if you're after a trailer queen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam W Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 Another thing to bear in mind is that as well as shifting your powerband up the rev range, a big turbo (or turbos) will have more transitional lag as you come on and off the throttle. ie even if you're at 5000rpm, if you lift off and then floor it again there will be a noticeable delay as the turbo gets going again. Usmann: Theres been loads of debate about twins vs single in the states, and the conclusion seems to be that they are virtually identical in terms of power/spool (comparing singles/twins of similar airflow), but twins are twice as expensive cos you gotta buy two of them. A single gives you more choice of power characteristics, and it's cheaper, but it doesn't look as good under the bonnet Not saying that you can't make a great car with twins, but I reckon the single route has got more going for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 As I understand it there are 4 'stages' of hybrids (1 to 4). Are they just progressively more power? Anyone know how much laggier the stage 4 is than stock turbo's, what revs does the second turbo come online? Thorin this worries me too...I want hybrids too but dont want to turn the car into a lag machine. Some off the Pod results have indicated that the hybrids are not returning any real performance advantage IMO...Matt H's car has standard turbos and his was quickest last time out. Whats the point of an extra 50bhp thats only top end and a loss of mid range...Am confused too! Darren Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Martin F Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 Originally posted by Darren Some off the Pod results have indicated that the hybrids are not returning any real performance advantage IMO... I don't think those results are really due to the cars having hybrid turbo's.................................all due respect to the various owners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 I'm fairly sure I only had the advantage because it was only a short run. I think Ian C's car had a better terminal spped than me, indicating that his was just getting going... I've never driven a car with hybrids so I don't know how laggy they are, but I guess the standing start shows something... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 I've never driven a car with hybrids so I don't know how laggy they are, but I guess the standing start shows something... Matt was your car quickest from standing start? Darren Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 Has anyone got any data on the torque, power, rpm delivery bands ect for the various levels of Hybrid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONKEYmark Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 weird how come the hybrids are not getting better times. they sound like they will do better at top speed runs. the supras seem a bit tame off the line. they just get going and its all over. does the £2k outlay seem like money well spent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbeh Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 I think probably the best and cheapest mod for a good run at the pod are a cheap set of DR's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Posted April 21, 2003 Share Posted April 21, 2003 I think Ian C's car had a better terminal spped than me, indicating that his was just getting going... That top end power is not alot of good to the road terroists amongst us... Matt how about you get a set of stage 3's from Leon and take your car up to Pod then we can compare your old and new times...? As Monkeymark said 2 G's is alot of money if theres not a lot of gain... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tDR Posted April 21, 2003 Share Posted April 21, 2003 Adam Kindness on this board got a 13.7 second 1/4 mile time at Crail when his car was a standard auto, it's now just been rebuilt at JPS with a set of stage 3 hybrids which he'll be running at 1.4 bar shortly for Crail on the 27th of the month. Should see over 400BHP at least - be interesting to see his new times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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