Guest Usmann A Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 Hi Ian, Might I ask what stage your hybrids are? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 I have no idea. They were on it when I got the car, and the previous owner didn't know much about them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam W Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 This "stage" business is really irritating. In the US when they buy an "uprated" turbo (their name for hybrids) you know which compressor wheel was used, the exhaust a/r, q-trim, p-trim, whatever, all the tech specs. "Stage 4" tells you absolutely nothign about what's been done to the thing so you can't compare with anyone elses setup. Stupidity, bought on by turbo builders playing too much Gran Turismo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 Originally posted by Thorin The size of the turbine and compressor wheels. I don't think tuners will release them. There was a request a while back when a certain tuner claimed his were the best, but it all went very quiet when specs were requested to back the claim up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 Originally posted by Matt Harwood My stock J-spec ceramics definatly come in at 3800rpm. I stand to be corrected but I think a boost controllers gain just help to bring them in faster not earlier. (ie, come in at 3800 and full boost by 4200, and with a higher gain, come in at 3800 and on full boost by 3900... I believe... Just an example BTW) Well yeah mine start to build earlier but it's not until 4200 before I have full boost. Still not sure on whether to go for stage 3 or 4, not that I've any chance of being able to afford them now anyway! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 What are the internals made of? Specifically on Leon's Hybrids. I assume they are a nickel based alloy. Is there a choice of materials for the pedantic amongst us? What are the A/R choices for stages 1, 2, 3 and 4? What are the impeller blades like? Do they have curved inducers or backward curved nes? What type of diffuser is used? What's the stock A/R (UK and J-spec) and diffuser type? Ahem...guess who just picked up a book on turbochargers.... Should this be in another thread?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 LOL, you crack me up! - Now, would you like to explain what you mean by that lot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 I think Leon would gladly publish the specs if it were not a concern that others would simply copy the specs. He has spent a lot, both time wise & finacially developing them. Others may just have gone to a turbo builder & said " build some hybrids" then made unsubstainated claims. Let another Company or two state there specs first. I know the JPS specs so I can easily comment. I fully understand the frustration about the stage thing, but I am sure most of you will understand the desire to protect an investment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONKEYmark Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 thats whats good about america. they are not cagey about giving specs of turbos out. understand leon has to protect his investments. but how hard would it be to buy a set of his stage 4 turbos and go to a turbo hybrid place and get them taken apart and made up to same spec. it would not be a big outlay for someone to do. think if people spending a lot on hybrids they want to know what they are getting for there money. hybrids sound ok if you blow your turbos as its just as well getting them in hybrid format for a quick solution. the budget single kit seems like a good plan. but you would have to sort a lot of other things like fueling and ecu`s. intresting to see this turbo information on here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude Posted April 22, 2003 Author Share Posted April 22, 2003 If the mans put that much time / money into development then why publish the stats , i say let the turbos do the talking , how about a hybrid shootout , looks like im gonna go for some hybrids and they will be from leon as so far he has been very tolerant/helpull with my questions etc , i look forward to meeting him on friday for a tune -up . John:flame Dev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 Originally posted by Matt Harwood LOL, you crack me up! - Now, would you like to explain what you mean by that lot! ISBN - 0-89586-135-6 Turbochargers by Hugh MacInnes Well that's what I'm reading tonight.....I've also got to go through, Maximum Boost by Corky Bell (left that at work for some "light" lunchtime reading! Sad I know) Performance Tuning - Forced induction.... Superchargers, Turbochargers and NOS... I've borrowed 1, 2 and 4 off of IanC. IanC is currently borrowing from me No.3. With all the idea's and theories coming out of these books we're struggling to fight off "kit fever" Just wish I could put some of it into practice....HKS IC's I laugh at them...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 Mark, there are two tuning company's on this BBS that bought the old stage 3's from Leon before their launch into the tuning world. I assume at least one who is now offering hybrids has based theirs on the old JPS stage 3's, but as you well know, turbo techno keeps moving on. I know Leon will tell people who actually buy them what the spec is, so no big secret, but let the other show their cards first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONKEYmark Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 Originally posted by Thor Mark, there are two tuning company's on this BBS that bought the old stage 3's from Leon before their launch into the tuning world. I assume at least one who is now offering hybrids has based theirs on the old JPS stage 3's, but as you well know, turbo techno keeps moving on. I know Leon will tell people who actually buy them what the spec is, so no big secret, but let the other show their cards first. dont matter to me. but if someone wanted them that bad its easy to do. if it makes the supras do well at events im all for it. like to see them in action. a hybrid turbo shoot out sounds fun, how would you go about it as a lot of people dont know what hybrids they have. have fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 As demo'd by Ian's car, power is great but to drag race you need grip for a standing start launch. Ian's car is effectively setup for cornering and braking. On tarmac it gets off the line fairly sharpish too....its the roll on, drop it a gear and nail it test where the hybrids kill stock Supra's....a drag race quite simply doesn't test them enough....unless its over a mile...the 1/4 just tests your ability to launch...if your car isn't setup for that then well its not going to do the job. If you want something on paper then a dyno sheet is a better bet, but it's the seat of your pants that tells you more than any piece of paper can explain.... I think booking a session at Abbey with their hub mounted dyno or at g-force would be the best idea to quantify what you get from Hybrids....or take a look at how Ian ran at 10OTB last year. His more successful trips round the handling circuit left him will up the RWD timing board. His 0-500 was .2 behind Paul Whiffin's PHR Single. His top speed was IIRC 174mph. My j-spec can only manage 160mph in that distance and my quick launching j-spec was behind him on the 0-500m by about .8 of a sec. To make an extra 14mph might not sound a lot but when you consider the forces (air and road resistance) involved its phenominal. Shame we don't know who's turbo's they are....and what the spec is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Whiffin Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 Just to clarify Alex, I was only running 17psi of boost,std ECU,etc. back then, no hybrids will live with a properly setup single. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude Posted April 24, 2003 Author Share Posted April 24, 2003 does that hold for auto and manual ???? John:flame Dev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Whiffin Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 I'd say so but then I've never driven an auto with a single before, doesn't seem to stop our American friends from bolting T88's on! Something like what I have at the moment is VERY driveable still so would be no problem with an auto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude Posted April 24, 2003 Author Share Posted April 24, 2003 and that would be ???? answer in ££££££'s or tech either way is fine John:flame Dev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Whiffin Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 Powerhouse Racing stage 1 turbo kit, you'll need fuel system, ECU, etc to make it work proper of course....last time on rollers 587 at flywheel on pump fuel, no additives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam W Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 That's about the smallest single you can buy as well, imagine what the big ones are like Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Whiffin Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 Yeah I can't wait! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 I did post a reply to this saying that Paul's single tubby wasn't actually really set up at the time but our shonky connection to the internet ate it, it appears. I agree that no hybrids will live with a properly set up single, but of course, it's a fair few quid for the turbo kit, the ECU, and the mapping business -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Whiffin Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 Expensive yes but it can work out cheaper in the long run, depends on what sort of person you are, if your like me I get bored very easily so have to fiddle thats why i went straight from std turbos to a single, I knew hybrids wouldn't be enough. And if you do get bored with a small single you can just wack a bigger one on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 Originally posted by Paul Whiffin last time on rollers 587 at flywheel on pump fuel, no additives. Thought you might like to add that you also have cams, a fuel system & a tuned AEM;) & it was achieved at something like 2 bar. Not really & PnP system like the hybrids although a single obviously has more ultimate potential. These guys can't go running 2 bar on pump fuel with their ECU's, so as I said before, hybrids would be the best/most cost effective route for road use IMHO. How's your car for traction Paul? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Whiffin Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 Well I got 550bhp on 1.5 bar which is reliable enough for day to day use. Going up to 2 bar really isn't worth it, you just can't run the right amount of ignition to get the big power out of it, running race fuel would cure that problem though of course but I dont just go for big power figures. Only running 256/264 cams, nothing to drastic... Hybrids are cheaper yep I agree with that, it all depends on what you want from the car, if you want to be limited then go for hybrids, if you want to have lots of options and can spend the money go for a single, which single you go for also determines what you do with fuelling. Remember you can run what I have on std 550cc injectors if you keep the boost down, that keeps the cost down a bit and you can run it with std ecu and some kind of fuel adjuster if your on a budget, then upgrade to fuel system/ECU at a later point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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