Full BPU vs Single Turbo!!

[supra_ufo]

why not go hybrid, you can get 500bhp and not have to change anything, maybe some cooling. Info on the kit can be found in wanted by a post Rog made.

[TBDevelopments]

well if you need fueling for a 500bhp single you'll need fueling for a 500bhp hybrid. So it all boils down to the costs of the kit really. I built previous single kits for just over the 2K range using garrett gt3582r and cast manifold setups for reliability.

 

Whats the hybrids going for? And can you hit over the 0.8bar on 1st turbo with those?

[supra_ufo]

Well I imagine it would be similar costs if you get taxed on the kit...

 

http://www.suprastore.com/tosusttwtugt.html

[TBDevelopments]

yeah just saw that on the wanted post you directed us to.

 

very interesting. Cheaper than i remember as well. Still prover the ease of working on the engine with a single though. The twins is a nightmare to get around. Small singles you can actually see the floor through the engine bay let alone nothing past 3" lol

[supra_ufo]

I know mate, I have been trying to take mine off with great difficulty...Managed to round off the nut taking off the exhaust lol

There is no space to work in!

[TBDevelopments]

yeah thats why i wanted to go single. like i've said i've done a couple of kits for people as one-off things but i'm looking to start making a few more for the business and use one on my own supra. So for a 500bhp small single i can't see any issues over a hybrid setup in terms of reliability. But i'll also be honest and say i've not installed one onto a car i've owned myself and seen how its like to live with so i'm also eager to see what peoples feedbacks are

 

Tim

[mellonman]

A 500bhp hybrid is almost just as much as a single turbo,

I have had

Stock

Full bpu with boost controller

Hybrid stage 3 at 1.4 mapped

Single t67 dbb

 

On my experiance I real that the full bpu was the best road car, love my single and its great fun I done my single myself and saved massively and picked up a second hand turbo kit all in done and mapped must of been 5k ,

But what alot of people forget to think about is insureance of your highly modified supra , mines cheaper in a brand new GTR

 

If I was doing it all again I would just stay bpu, hybrid was a total waste of time, if your turbos fail then source a decent second hand set and save your money.you will have less willy waving abilities at meets but have 10k in your pocket

[chazuk]

This i have already Blitz Nurspec catback with 1st and 2nd De-cats. Greddy front mount inter cooler. Trust oil cooler. Fidanza lightened flywheel. Whifbitz braided fuel hose to remove pulsation damper. Blitz oil pressure gauge. HKS dump valve. Blitz SBC (Sequential boost controller). Apexi pillar mounted gauges (boost and temp Apexi turbo timer. Spec clutch kit. HKS twin power High performance ingintion system Type DLI.

 

This is what i will be getting

Garage Whifbitz S362 66mm twin wastegate twin scroll single turbo kit

Fuel rail kit with 1000cc injectors

Fuel pressure regulator

Bosch 044 pump

BC cams 264 and Valve Spring & Retainer (these are the 2jz-ge cams from a is300 so i can have the VVTI) Or HKS not sure yet

Adjustable Cam pullys

Syvecs S6GP

 

For the power your looking for 600? you wouldn't need the cams and adjustable cam pulleys ,I am on stock cams and made 622hp I remember JP made 630 on stock cams too, for a fraction of the cost of cams I would do a inlet manifold mine is a eBay copy get the ports matched and welded onto the runners with a q45 when I got mine mapped Ryan runs no boost to begin with he said the inlet is working between 20-30hp .I wish I'd left mine BPU as others have said its a blast being single but the supra just seems its best at tt bpu with the £££ put in I wish I'd bought a set of new twins or had them refreshed,and syvecs and make the best out off bpu still a very fast car and it would go to the end of the earth and back without any worries.

[Bailey.]

As above, I should have stayed bpu and saved the £12k I spent going single and a few other bits as I could have kept the supra and had a house deposit!! Sooo soooo stupid:angry:

[T2 MSW]

I know mate, I have been trying to take mine off with great difficulty...Managed to round off the nut taking off the exhaust lol

There is no space to work in!

 

I dont envy you with that one - its a horrible job. If I ever had to take stock twins off again id pull the engine out first.

[Pig]

A 500bhp hybrid is almost just as much as a single turbo,

I have had

Stock

Full bpu with boost controller

Hybrid stage 3 at 1.4 mapped

Single t67 dbb

 

On my experiance I real that the full bpu was the best road car, love my single and its great fun I done my single myself and saved massively and picked up a second hand turbo kit all in done and mapped must of been 5k ,

But what alot of people forget to think about is insureance of your highly modified supra , mines cheaper in a brand new GTR

 

If I was doing it all again I would just stay bpu, hybrid was a total waste of time, if your turbos fail then source a decent second hand set and save your money.you will have less willy waving abilities at meets but have 10k in your pocket

 

Answers your question. This man has done it all and would stay BPU. I would have done too. Leaves the car saleable also, one you have a single you don't want to part with it as you have pliers so much money into it.

[bignum]

If you go out in a decent single you`ll defo want to do it, also for me single was the best thing i ever did.but it really depends what you want out of the car and what you are using it for.

[neilp9876]

thing is no-one has asked his final goal. Going single doesn't mean a huge lag monster. he might only want low 500's which is a totally different thing to a 750bhp-1000bhp single.

 

I've been out in a few and put a couple together now for people and i like the feel of a single supra over a TT personally. you don't get that 0.8bar until 4k then 1.2bar kick. Its alot more progressive and i find if you using a small turbocharger like a GT30 variant or GT3582 like someone else suggested if selected right actually feels faster and more responsive than the TT, plus its more liner without that big kick at 4k.

 

This is what I'm planning to build for my own personal supra. a small GT3582r designed for response and the 500bhp range.

 

remember if you build this correctly going from a car that's full BPU (i consider decent ecu control part of full BPU) your only a turbo kit and injector increase away from the goal anyway. As the cooling, breathing etc side of the engine is done for BPU. Plus engine internals people are running them stock into the 700's so again small single should be still just as reliable as TT

 

Tim

 

Might be a stupid question (and one that's been asked before) but can't the TT turbo's be run in parallel rather than sequential? Would that not make the standard turbo's more progressive and be similar to a small single turbo.

[spikedjack]

Might be a stupid question (and one that's been asked before) but can't the TT turbo's be run in parallel rather than sequential? Would that not make the standard turbo's more progressive and be similar to a small single turbo.

 

They can but they both hit late, makes the car less user friendly from what I can gather

[jjs_82]

For the power your looking for 600? you wouldn't need the cams and adjustable cam pulleys ,I am on stock cams and made 622hp I remember JP made 630 on stock cams too, for a fraction of the cost of cams I would do a inlet manifold mine is a eBay copy get the ports matched and welded onto the runners with a q45 when I got mine mapped Ryan runs no boost to begin with he said the inlet is working between 20-30hp .I wish I'd left mine BPU as others have said its a blast being single but the supra just seems its best at tt bpu with the £££ put in I wish I'd bought a set of new twins or had them refreshed,and syvecs and make the best out off bpu still a very fast car and it would go to the end of the earth and back without any worries.

 

I would like to fit an aftermarket inlet manifold but i dont want to be going to the hassle of putting the battery into the boot. The reason why i was going to go with cams is because ill be using 95 unleaded because you can get decent petrol here, so i was hoping the cams would help me achieve more bhp and low down torque while using the crappy petrol that we have to put up with here.

[Rich.2211]

They can but they both hit late, makes the car less user friendly from what I can gather

 

+1 on the above. I tried the TTC mod on my first Supra (TT auto) and it was horrible, especially with an auto box, the sound turned into one long drone until you hit positive boost. However, from what I have read, a fair few have had good results when properly setup on a stand alone management system such as the Syvecs.

[DaveR]

This is what i will be getting

Garage Whifbitz S362 66mm twin wastegate twin scroll single turbo kit

Fuel rail kit with 1000cc injectors

Fuel pressure regulator

Bosch 044 pump

BC cams 264 and Valve Spring & Retainer (these are the 2jz-ge cams from a is300 so i can have the VVTI) Or HKS not sure yet

Adjustable Cam pullys

Syvecs S6GP

I take it that's a typo seeing as the S362s / B362s are 62mm turbos? Clue's in the title.

 

From the sounds of it you're going for a sort of similar set up to mine, albeit with a much lower target for power. BPU is a great set up for a road car and I loved mine when it was at that level of tune for responsiveness, reliability and relative refinement (alliteratively... ). Going single isn't cheap and to be honest an argument could be made for it not being hugely appropriate for a road car due to an increase in road noise, potentially expensive problems and a decrease in MPG (not that any of us buy a Supra expecting it to be a frugal choice I like to think...) and future saleability. BUT... I personally don't regret going single at all. The shove in the back as the turbo hits full boost just DOES NOT get old! As long as you do things sensibly and upgrade the brakes and suspension to cope with your expected level of power either before or at the same time as your single conversion, everything is entirely manageable. There will be teething problems and little niggling bits that you'll need to rectify over the first few months so don't expect plain sailing.

 

It all depends what you want from your car.

Is a single converted Supra:

Refined? No.

Comfortable? Not really.

Expensive? Certainly.

But above all fun? Oh yes...

[TBDevelopments]

going from someone whos owned the single turbos, why wouldn't a single setup be refined, comfortable? And reliability obviously comes with what power levels your aiming for

 

Tim

[mellonman]

I would say a single is quite reliable, but its the other parts that are not made to have 600bhp through them that make it unreliable, auto box, diff, clutch, rear tyres

Comfort /refined would be the lag , nothing,nothing, nothing, 4000 rpm and a massive wack of your full 600 bhp soon after

[DaveR]

going from someone whos owned the single turbos, why wouldn't a single setup be refined, comfortable? And reliability obviously comes with what power levels your aiming for

 

Tim

 

It's a comparison thing. You can't reasonably expect a car to behave in as refined a way as it did when it left the factory if the engine is producing twice or three times as much power as it was at that stage and the suspension components, brakes, clutch, etc have been altered to cope, making it necessarily noisier and stiffer. A single'd Supra provides a much more raw and visceral experience than a stock or BPU'd car on my experience.

 

This is the same with reliability. We all know the 2JZ is a hugely over-engineered engine capable of great things but increasing the specific output to greater than factory spec will inevitably hasten any issues that would eventually become apparent as a result of age. Don't get me wrong, I've had no reliability issues with my engine whatsoever but I've only been single for about 8 months and in that time the (17 year old) diff showed itself to not be able to cope with the power and disintegrated after a few hard launches, something that probably wouldn't have happened at BPU power so soon (although that's impossible to prove either way).

 

Of course if you're not going to bother going through some of the stages that I've mentioned (improving suspension to cope or changing the clutch, for instance) then yes the car will "feel" arguably similar to how it did at BPU power, but of course the longevity of those parts or otherwise the performance of the car as a whole will inevitably be compromised.

[DaveR]

I would say a single is quite reliable, but its the other parts that are not made to have 600bhp through them that make it unreliable, auto box, diff, clutch, rear tyres

Comfort /refined would be the lag , nothing,nothing, nothing, 4000 rpm and a massive wack of your full 600 bhp soon after

 

I was writing my own response when this was posted but basically

[TBDevelopments]

i think alot of it down to parts selection and how things are built. I'm new to the supras but been in the 3sgte world for over 10 years and there isn't much i haven't done and were now pushing out engines and cars with nearly double the factory power and they are running just as nice as they came out the factory. No clunks or rattles and still just as easy to drive as someone thats just done a simple boost increase. Yet i have cars through the workshop at 450bhp and they don't like to idle, hard to drive because of the clutch etc etc.

 

i do agree with what your saying about longevity etc but again this comes down to how far you want to go. I just wanted to go small single for the linier boost curve over the double hit effect with the TT. I was aiming for a GT30 or GT35 setup, where people with gt35's are claiming positive boost around 2400rpm and full boost before 3500. and going for the low to mid 500's i think would make it a nice upgrade without going silly. I see (daver) are at 631 at the hubs. at a guess thats got to be pushing near 700bhp at the flywheel. So from what you have to what i was suggesting is 150-200bhp apart which again is worlds apart.

 

so i think its more of a case of what degree of single turbo you go for over all singles are bad.

 

Is there anyone on this thread running a small GT30 or GT35 on there supra? i know there was that silver supra on here running basically an amuse style single kit and he was claiming faster spool and better responce than the stock TT setup and around 500bhp.

[Rob_Mitchell]

My auto box is going strong on the big twins and did so on the single!! Well over 600 with the twins.

[bignum]

I wouldn`t get hung up on the quick spool thing, thats what makes most supras undrivable imo, its like all or nothing then whack and no road tyre will cope, i reckon a slightly bigger turbo (67mm) with a midrange exhaust housing (under 1.00ar) is about perfect on most supras, then if you want abit more power later on and you will! then crank up the boost and go for it, all imho of course.

[TBDevelopments]

i was thinking of using a smallish turbo setup and then dialing in the boost more progressive if need be with the boost controller.

 

I'm running 6spd as well