j_jza80 Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 I wonder whether the reaction would have been the same had the country been Iran as supposed to Israel Haven't Iran been boasting about their capabilities in this area recently? The difference is that if we were the victim of an attack that originated in Israel, their authorities would do their utmost to help us out. Iran would brag about how their citizens are defying the Imperialist Crusaders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abz Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Haven't Iran been boasting about their capabilities in this area recently? The difference is that if we were the victim of an attack that originated in Israel, their authorities would do their utmost to help us out. Iran would brag about how their citizens are defying the Imperialist Crusaders. So have China, Russia, UK, Australia & now Mexico\Saudi, should we bomb them all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wile e coyote Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Like i said iran is next on americas list Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 Israel, their authorities would do their utmost to help us out. Really, how can you be sure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abz Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Really, how can you be sure? Of course we can, when we (UK) asked them to stop the bombing & air strikes on Palestine a couple of years ago, they... oh hold on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 So have China, Russia, UK, Australia & now Mexico\Saudi, should we bomb them all? I wasn't suggesting attacking anyone! I haven't got a problem with Iran, they're a great people who have one of the oldest and greatest civilisations of all. Unfortunately, this moron who's in charge of them Is going to get many of them killed i only mentioned Iran as an example as they have been ranting on about how they took control of the US UAV using cyber warfare. Just to clarify, I don't think the US were stating that they would launch missiles into populated areas, only that launching an attack wouldn't be ruled out under the right circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Of course we can, when we (UK) asked them to stop the bombing & air strikes on Palestine a couple of years ago, they... oh hold on. Hold on, this is starting to get a bit off topic, but those attacks weren't unprovoked! Im not saying they were right but they certainly weren't the only guilty party. Israel generally has a very high level of cooperation with the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 It seems people aren't quite so magnanimous in their support of that one my friend. Hypocrisy is rife - one rule for us and our "friends", a completely different set of rules for others. Very sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abz Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 I wasn't suggesting attacking anyone! I haven't got a problem with Iran, they're a great people who have one of the oldest and greatest civilisations of all. Unfortunately, this moron who's in charge of them Is going to get many of them killed i only mentioned Iran as an example as they have been ranting on about how they took control of the US UAV using cyber warfare. Just to clarify, I don't think the US were stating that they would launch missiles into populated areas, only that launching an attack wouldn't be ruled out under the right circumstances. You sure? I am not giving you a gun man! Yeah they took down a US Drone recently which was spying in their air space, the same thing we would do if Iran sent a drone to spy on us. It isn't so much that, why don't they do the human thing and counter the cyber attacks? Why threat with missiles & war? So then if they did use the fire power they can say, we told you so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 You sure? I am not giving you a gun man! Yeah they took down a US Drone recently which was spying in their air space, the same thing we would do if Iran sent a drone to spy on us. I think isn't so much that, why don't they do the human thing and counter the cyber attacks? Why threat with missiles & war? They do counter it online (I guess as much as possible, but I don't know the extent or capabilities tbh) but i believe the potential of cyber war to be every bit as deadly as a physical attack, so they obviously need to show that they will go the distance. showing weakness in the face of escalating cyber warfare and crime would surely only make the situation worse. With this US drone business, I can see why Iran aren't happy about it. They have every right to be. However, I'd much rather the US are using these underhand surveillance techniques rather than launching an all out attack on the suspected nuclear sites. (ie strike first, ask questions later which is something America has done many times before) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abz Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 They do counter it online (I guess as much as possible, but I don't know the extent or capabilities tbh) but i believe the potential of cyber war to be every bit as deadly as a physical attack, so they obviously need to show that they will go the distance. showing weakness in the face of escalating cyber warfare and crime would surely only make the situation worse. With this US drone business, I can see why Iran aren't happy about it. They have every right to be. However, I'd much rather the US are using these underhand surveillance techniques rather than launching an all out attack on the suspected nuclear sites. (ie strike first, ask questions later which is something America has done many times before) You are right, cyber attacks can be very dangerous but lets put it this way, thousands have taken place in the time this thread has been up. I get involved with some end point security products as part of my work and in the last 7 years or so cyber crime has been rising rapidly, but in order to protect yourself you just need to be ahead of the cyber attackers and have strict protocols and procedures. If you have this in place then you don't need to put threats like this out. What this message is saying is that it is okay to kill if you are cyber attacked, is this the message we want to portray? What if another country said to the UK, we will fire missiles if we are cyber attacked? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 You are right, cyber attacks can be very dangerous but lets put it this way, thousands have taken place in the time this thread has been up. I get involved with some end point security products as part of my work and in the last 7 years or so cyber crime has been rising rapidly, but in order to protect yourself you just need to be ahead of the cyber attackers and have strict protocols and procedures. If you have this in place then you don't need to put threats like this out. What this message is saying is that it is okay to kill if you are cyber attacked, is this the message we want to portray? What if another country said to the UK, we will fire missiles if we are cyber attacked? It would entirely depend on the situation. If for example a group of hackers were operating from one of the old defence fortresses in the Thames, and our government did nothing to stop them, another country launching a missile attack against them would be justified IMO. They are isolated and the chances of collateral damage are almost 0. If the hackers were based in central London, this would not be acceptable. In which case I'd fully expect the other government to send in a team to remove the problem, possibly along similar lines to the Bin Laden strike but on a smaller scale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abz Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 It would entirely depend on the situation. If for example a group of hackers were operating from one of the old defence fortresses in the Thames, and our government did nothing to stop them, another country launching a missile attack against them would be justified IMO. They are isolated and the chances of collateral damage are almost 0. If the hackers were based in central London, this would not be acceptable. In which case I'd fully expect the other government to send in a team to remove the problem, possibly along similar lines to the Bin Laden strike but on a smaller scale. Now, knowing this information, put yourself in the shoe of a hacker, where you will you be based? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Now, knowing this information, put yourself in the shoe of a hacker, where you will you be based? I'm well aware But also, the hackers are obviously reasonably mobile too. These are but a few of the many hurdles that need to be jumped, and why I'm glad I'm not having to second guess cyber thieves/terrorists But as said before, utilities like telephone exchanges and power lines and distribution can be attacked if necessary. This will obviously have a negative effect on the surrounding population, but nowhere near as bad as the victims of the hacker/s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abz Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 I'm well aware But also, the hackers are obviously reasonably mobile too. These are but a few of the many hurdles that need to be jumped, and why I'm glad I'm not having to second guess cyber thieves/terrorists But as said before, utilities like telephone exchanges and power lines and distribution can be attacked if necessary. This will obviously have a negative effect on the surrounding population, but nowhere near as bad as the victims of the hacker/s. Mobile indeed, they could actually be in India, remote into a machine in London and then carry out the work. Lets hope fire isn't used to fight against fire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 necons! - they need any excuse to start a war, tear down a nation - rebuild using your contractors, billion $ profits = happy share holders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Do you come on here on Fridays specifically to rile people up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewOW Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_og5xZ0ouk28/THsquGbo1bI/AAAAAAAACkU/yoDdzFyllU4/s1600/WarGames+-+(1983).jpg Who's in control of what, exactly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbloodyturbo Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 necons! - they need any excuse to start a war, tear down a nation - rebuild using your contractors, billion $ profits = happy share holders. Damn right, it puts money in my pocket and a few billion others so im not fussed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purity14 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 The Jews have been always been whinging and boo-hooing about something or other since the beginning of time. Its hardly new news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous brain Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Here starts the new world of technology ruling the world and the man with the button being in charge. As soon as you let a man with a button press that button to obliterate a problem that his own system tells him is a problem with no other evidence being required then you are in the same teritory as a king that cuts off heads because he feels like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 How do you start one of those forum Poll things? I want to open a book on how long it is before Mossad "loses" imi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 On radio 4 on Thursday I heard the former head of The Mossad, Danny something, stating quite clearly that it's ok to use 'clandestine activities' like the recent car bombing of a top Iranian Nuclear Physicist to stop Iran gaining a nuclear weapons capability. These Israeli's will stop at nothing. Abz is absolutely spot on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 On radio 4 on Thursday I heard the former head of The Mossad, Danny something, stating quite clearly that it's ok to use 'clandestine activities' like the recent car bombing of a top Iranian Nuclear Physicist to stop Iran gaining a nuclear weapons capability. These Israeli's will stop at nothing. Abz is absolutely spot on. Under certain circumstances, these cloak and dagger tactics are unfortunately necessary. You can't claim that the world hasn't tried every other way to coerce Iran into stopping their nuclear weapons development (which, at this stage, has been proven without a doubt) At a time when the world is making huge leaps and bounds in Nuclear disarmament, letting a country that would happily provide a nuclear weapon to use on other nations become nuclear is completely unacceptable. At least if Israel is getting actively involved, it reduces the chances of us getting involved (though unfortunately at this point, I suspect it's more a matter of when than if ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 At least if Israel is getting actively involved, it reduces the chances of us getting involved You're talking to me now. I shouldn't have to remind you that 'we' have been using radioactive 'Depleted Uranium' nuclear weapons for years against at least two sovereign nations and have all but destroyed them. This is about the Scientist that was just taken out... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/9009914/Iran-called-on-to-retaliate-against-Israel-over-killing-of-nuclear-expert.html and this is about the Israeli sabre rattling... http://rense.com/general95/rhett.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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