new mot laws

[tbourner]

I dont think anyone in this thread gets it, its not about you its the people you are dazzling coming the other way,

 

For me it's about having the best, as we all tend towards in the modifying world. I'm sure there are plenty of people who say you don't need 800BHP, you can only do 70MPH anyway, you won't get there any quicker etc. etc. We all know why we do it though and we're not going to stop.

I'm also looking into LED bulbs to replace my normal bulbs around the car - I'm trying to find some that are diffused and asking other owners for pics of theirs fitted, because I know how annoying it is sitting behind an LED car in traffic with their brake lights on!! (not that I sit on my brakes). I want the upgrades but I'm trying to be as diligent as I can, both in terms of the law and my understanding of the effect on other drivers.

With respect to HIDs, I absolutely think they should be banned in reflector lenses, and I wouldn't be averse to them banning anything above about 7K Kelvin as well. I have projector lenses and washers, and I use my knob when carrying loads, I'm not getting any higher than 5000K and will get them adjusted by a garage after fitting (might ask what they reckon on the MOT as well).

[tbourner]

As already posted above, ABS removal is specifically mentioned in the MOT manual.

Also specifically mentioned in the manual:

 

Thanks Gareth I know, just clarifying with the email from VOSA. Seems people are reading the PENPicture which is just suggestions, and the legal standpoint from DfT which isn't rigidly enforced, and drawing exaggerated conclusions about the MOT test.

[garethr]

Thanks Gareth I know, just clarifying with the email from VOSA. Seems people are reading the PENPicture which is just suggestions, and the legal standpoint from DfT which isn't rigidly enforced, and drawing exaggerated conclusions about the MOT test.

I know, I don't understand it.

VOSA had the new test up on their website on January 1st, but people (not just on here) are still referring to speculative stuff that was posted months ago.

 

RTFM!

 

Also, you have to remember that what is legal (Construction and Use Regs) is different from what will pass an MOT.

[tbourner]

More clarification from my mate at Vosa on HIDs :

 

Ref: changes coming in April/May:

The inspection manual as currently published gives the full RfRs. There is the possibility of minor modifications (eg an acceptance of specialist modifications for certain vehicles regarding steering wheel airbags is being considered), but testers should include all the items in the Inspection Manual in their examination of the vehicles at this time.

So they're not changing the RfRs as they are in the current Inspection Manual, which says things like '...may be fitted...'.

 

He sent me this link:

http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/Special%20Notice%2009-11.pdf

Page 6, Annex B:List of New Testable Components:

Headlamp levelling and cleaning devices when fitted for HID or LED headlamps

 

 

And finally:

may I clarify something regarding HID lights. HID lamps that have an output of less than 2000 Lumens do not need headlamp levelling or washing. LED lamps under 2000 Lumens must have self levelling, but do not need washing.

 

It is also not possible for an MOT tester to determine whether or not a particular lamp is more than 2000 Lumens or not. The MOT test therefore uses the lowest criteria that can realistically be applied; so if a particular vehicle is fitted with a headlamp levelling or washing system, then we consider it logical to assume that it requires it by law and therefore it must work.

 

 

 

Having said all that, we'll probably need to print all these documents off and take them with us when we get MOTs done.

[dude]

But our station is saying you cannot have ANY aftermarket HID kit fitted.

[tbourner]

According to UK law you can't no, but EU law allows it and EU-legal cars are sold here, so they have to allow them under joint EU regulations.

Aftermarket HID kits follow the same regulations, so are held under the same laws.

[dude]

According to UK law you can't no, but EU law allows it and EU-legal cars are sold here, so they have to allow them under joint EU regulations.

Aftermarket HID kits follow the same regulations, so are held under the same laws.

 

An EU car would have lights that dip to the right, those are not legal in this country and have to be changed, so are you sure on that one.

[tbourner]

An EU car would have lights that dip to the right, those are not legal in this country and have to be changed, so are you sure on that one.

 

Don't ask me, ask the DfT.

The Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 regulate the situation in the UK.

Under these Regulations, HID/Gas Discharge/Xenon headlamps are not mentioned and therefore they are not permitted according to the strict letter of the law.

 

However new vehicles have HID headlamps. This is because they comply to European type approval Regulations. The UK cannot refuse to register a vehicle with a European type approval. These are to ECE Regulation 98 (for the HID headlamps which are tested on a rig in a laboratory) and ECE Regulation 48 (Lighting Installation on the vehicle).

[Purity14]

Modern cars with modern hids have a switch to throw the dip over to the other side.

[dude]

Have a look at this

 

http://www2.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/drs/hidheadlamps.html

[Scott]

Reading between the lines there it would appear that the reason for self levelling and washer jets is that the HIDs sometimes do not emit enough light under certain conditions.. ie crap on the lens.

 

Good to know that it doesn't really have anything to do with dazzling other drivers.

 

As a sidenote I have no issue with people using HIDs when they have projector lenses, I've not been dazzled once by them and I don't feel they are dazzling at all.... they can be slightly distracting due to the colour difference though. When people with normal reflection lenses fit them it's a different kettle of hamsters though, they glare at all angles and really do dazzle you when on a dark road.

 

I've been more dazzled in the past when increased wattage output bulbs was the 'big thing' with all the younguns. I'm not up on what wattage goes into the dipped beams but I remember the going rate being about 30% more than standard. I have 90w in my head for the standard and 120 or 130 or something like that being the bulb of choice.

[tbourner]

Have a look at this

 

http://www2.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/drs/hidheadlamps.html

 

That's where my quote came from!

It's a bit confusing and wordy though, I read it as "All HIDs are illegal, but we'll let them slide", and also "Aftermarket HIDs follow the same rules as OEM".

[dude]

Don't ask me, ask the DfT.

 

Yes that is saying cars are allowed to have HID's meaning a car with european type approval for HID's (fitted as standard) has to be accepted in the UK

[Scott]

That's where my quote came from!

It's a bit confusing and wordy though, I read it as "All HIDs are illegal, but we'll let them slide", and also "Aftermarket HIDs follow the same rules as OEM".

 

That's how I read it.

 

All HIDs are illegal to the letter of the law but we will allow them under the following conditions due to being allowed in Europe.....

[dude]

Im just going to pick a car up from MOT and he said he will dig out paperwork, he said quite simply you cant have em.

[tbourner]

Feel free to print my replies from the VOSA Operations Directorate saying otherwise.

[dan294]

Reading between the lines there it would appear that the reason for self levelling and washer jets is that the HIDs sometimes do not emit enough light under certain conditions.. ie crap on the lens.

 

Good to know that it doesn't really have anything to do with dazzling other drivers.

 

As a sidenote I have no issue with people using HIDs when they have projector lenses, I've not been dazzled once by them and I don't feel they are dazzling at all.... they can be slightly distracting due to the colour difference though. When people with normal reflection lenses fit them it's a different kettle of hamsters though, they glare at all angles and really do dazzle you when on a dark road.

 

I've been more dazzled in the past when increased wattage output bulbs was the 'big thing' with all the younguns. I'm not up on what wattage goes into the dipped beams but I remember the going rate being about 30% more than standard. I have 90w in my head for the standard and 120 or 130 or something like that being the bulb of choice.

 

I think most standard bulbs are 55w aren't they? I know a lot upgrade to the 100w brighter bulbs...

[Scott]

I think most standard bulbs are 55w aren't they? I know a lot upgrade to the 100w brighter bulbs...

 

That sounds like it then

[dude]

Well he just explained his understanding and as its written much as I hate the idea it appears you can have them, the washers and levelling are if fitted and as long as the beam pattern is ok there is not much he can do, if they have a blue tint he can fail but not much else, but he says the rules are changing again soon to target HID's the list of other stuff, warning lights and speedo etc is getting tighter, they definatly want the sheds off the road.

[dude]

But then there is this

 

In practice this means:

 

1. The headlamp unit (outer lens, reflector, bulb) shall be type approved to ECE 98 and be "e-marked" to demonstrate this. That can only be done by the headlamp supplier - Hella, Valeo etc. who must test the headlamp in an independent laboratory.

 

2. Once fitted to the vehicle it must have headlamp cleaning and self-levelling (which can be for the headlamp or can be in the vehicle suspension - some expensive estate cars have "self-levelling suspension" and that is adequate). Also the dipped beam must stay on with the main beam.

 

And this

 

Under the Road Traffic Act 1988 it is an offence to supply, fit or use vehicle parts which are not legal.

 

In summary it is not permitted to convert an existing halogen headlamp unit for use with HID bulbs. The entire headlamp unit must be replaced with one designed and approved for use with HID bulbs and it must be installed in accordance with the rules stated above.

 

This was his argument, and he says thats what he is going on, so wrong numbers on lens no passy mot !!!!

[Tricky-Ricky]

I wonder how it deals with Japanese imports that have HIDs fitted as std with no self leveling, yet the reflectors are designed around an HID bulb.

[dan294]

I wonder how it deals with Japanese imports that have HIDs fitted as std with no self leveling, yet the reflectors are designed around an HID bulb.

 

Yeah, I had an imported 350z a few years ago like that. Suppose that is how it would have come from the factory so in theory should be ok??

[Scott]

But then there is this

 

In practice this means:

 

1. The headlamp unit (outer lens, reflector, bulb) shall be type approved to ECE 98 and be "e-marked" to demonstrate this. That can only be done by the headlamp supplier - Hella, Valeo etc. who must test the headlamp in an independent laboratory.

 

2. Once fitted to the vehicle it must have headlamp cleaning and self-levelling (which can be for the headlamp or can be in the vehicle suspension - some expensive estate cars have "self-levelling suspension" and that is adequate). Also the dipped beam must stay on with the main beam.

 

And this

 

Under the Road Traffic Act 1988 it is an offence to supply, fit or use vehicle parts which are not legal.

 

In summary it is not permitted to convert an existing halogen headlamp unit for use with HID bulbs. The entire headlamp unit must be replaced with one designed and approved for use with HID bulbs and it must be installed in accordance with the rules stated above.

 

This was his argument, and he says thats what he is going on, so wrong numbers on lens no passy mot !!!!

 

 

Yeah that was the way I also read it. For aftermarket purposes the full headlight must be supplied for it to be legal.

 

I'll not worry much though, there's more chance of my car failing on emissions..... like almost every other Supra on the road.

[Scott]

I wonder how it deals with Japanese imports that have HIDs fitted as std with no self leveling, yet the reflectors are designed around an HID bulb.

 

That's fine, as it says it's only when the manufacturer has deemed the self leveling and washers as a requirement. In other words, if they aren't there they won't be tested.

[dude]

I wonder how it deals with Japanese imports that have HIDs fitted as std with no self leveling, yet the reflectors are designed around an HID bulb.

 

Awkward one that but at the end of the day I dont think the govt care if the piss a few jap car owners off, after all if it needed an SVA it would never get in the country in the first place !!!